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Durban 2024/28?


baron-pierreIV
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...and it won't reduce costs either, I guess...

Well, it might if they can work with more existing venues.

The main thing I take away from this story is that Bach wants African Games to be part of his legacy. Couple that with his obvious disregard of financial realities (I'm thinking about his comments about Sochi) and you have the makings for a potential disaster.

I want to see African Olympics too, but Africa has enough suffering to deal with without having their backs broken by an Olympic Games they aren't really prepared for.

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Clearly it's pointless trying to have a conversation with someone who believes the phrase "all important" is open to interpretation. Semantics! Are you kidding?!

How "sneering"!

Definition of "all-important" by Dictionary.com - "extremely or vitally important; essential". Are you telling me that the main Olympic stadium is NONE of these things?! I'm sorry, but I guess I shoulda went with the Athensfan webster's version instead.

:rolleyes:

Did I say Durban was "out the window"? Am I "hell bent" on proclaiming this?

For the record, just because I think 2024 is too soon for Durban, that doesn't mean the IOC will agree. They may be won over by the global map with a big blank spot for Africa and choose to ignore the cautionary tales of Athens and Rio. They may say "it's no big deal for Durban to host the CWG within two years of the Olympics."

Your above quote speaks for itself (& it's one of many in this thread). You couldn't be more facetious even if you tired. Actually, never mind. I'm sure you could.

You say Hidalgo's just "not on board yet." How optimistic for someone who seems to find nothing but fault with his own country's candidates. If that were a US city you'd pronounce them dead on the spot.

Uh huh. How convenient of you to proclaim what I would say, or wouldn't about U.S. candidates. Quite frankly, Boston seems to intrigue me more than another L.A. bid. There's still going through their preliminaries & I'm "hoping" that they could come up with a feasible plan that would make sense for them as a city & for the Olympics instead of "pronouncing them dead on the spot". So thanks again for 'misrepresenting' my position & trying to put words in my mouth.

My posts speak for themselves and I'm not going to repeat myself just because your reading comprehension is failing you.

Another one of your "obnoxious & sneering" comments.

I want to see Olympics in Africa, but I want them to succeed. That's why I'm arguing it would be best for all concerned if Durban targeted 2028 or 2032. I would hold that view irrespective of the identities of the other bidders.

Right. Except for 2024, of course.

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Of course the stadium is essential, but the stadium is not all that matters. By that definition, all of Olympic planning is "all important."

I stand by the posts you quoted. I don't think 2024 is the right time for Durban, but the bid is most definitely not "out the window" because there's a good chance the IOC will throw caution to the wind and choose them anyway.

Your record of skepticism regarding US bids speaks for itself.

And yes, I do think Durban should bypass 2024 so that they can host the 2022 CWG, learn from it, build their sports infrastructure and have more than 2 years before they have to turn around and deliver Olympic Games.

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My "record of skepticism" regarding U.S. bids speaks for itself? Hardly. Major potential players like New York & Chicago ultimately rejected 2024 bids. That's hardly skepticism, rather moreso pragmatism. You 'adamantly' 'going after' anyone that held that view didn't make them skeptics. Obviously, there was merit, in the end, in those holding those views.

I've agreed that this new L.A. 2024 proposal ups the ante in their court. I've admitted that I find Boston to be more appealing & hope that they can come up with a good plan (since it appears that they've at least done their homework & know that this endeavor wouldn't be a walk in the park, whatsoever), since IMO, it would at least be a new locale in the only country in the world that's hosted the most Olympic Games. We've recently seen cities running away from wanting to host due to exorbitant mounting costs. So I don't see how any of that is being a skeptic.

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My "record of skepticism" regarding U.S. bids speaks for itself? Hardly. Major potential players like New York & Chicago ultimately rejected 2024 bids. That's hardly skepticism, rather moreso pragmatism. You 'adamantly' 'going after' anyone that held that view didn't make them skeptics. Obviously, there was merit, in the end, in those holding those views.

I've agreed that this new L.A. 2024 proposal ups the ante in their court. I've admitted that I find Boston to be more appealing & hope that they can come up with a good plan (since it appears that they've at least done their homework & know that this endeavor wouldn't be a walk in the park, whatsoever), since IMO, it would at least be a new locale in the only country in the world that's hosted the most Olympic Games. We've recently seen cities running away from wanting to host due to exorbitant mounting costs. So I don't see how any of that is being a skeptic.

There's a whole lot more than that to your posting history, but if you want to rebrand yourself as a flag-waving patriot, fine.

This conversation isn't yielding anything of value.

Aloha.

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OMFG, Athensfan! You're so incredibly insufferable!!

"This conversation isn't yielding anything of value" anylonger bcuz you took it in that direction, with your silly accusations & blantant misrepresentations of others. You get so pissed when you claim others are doing that to you, yet you have no problems whatsoever of hypocritically doIng the same to others, with your "sneering & condescending" tones.

I don't need to "rebrand" myself as anything, cuz I honestly don't give a fukc what you think. If there's anything to learn from anyone's "positing history", is your incessant "appetite" in "adamanty going after" anyone who doesn't agree with your train of thought & challenges your views (like what went down in the Paris thread in the GB news section yesterday). You've even gone into an argument with the moderator of this site before over the fricken bid index.

But I digress now. Your BS has totally gone outta control lately & I sure as heck don't need it. So yeah, Aloha. Sayonara. Auf Wiedersehn. arrivaderci, Bon voyage & good riddance!

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I still believe Durban is not the right city. It's different than being the eager city that want to host. It's a shame that the Olympics have become unbearable to organise.

Too true, but can be used as a catalyst for redevelopment and hey at least you can say you had a go.
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Another parallel: they're both enormous pricks.

Nothing wrong with being an enormous prick...It's being called a little prick is what I would be more worried about...especially if I was Antonio.

Edited by #rescue Our Girls NOW!
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How can you compare Barcelona 1992 to Durban 2028?

Because the field was tipped in Barcelona's favor and is being tipped in Durban's or South Africa's for 2028.

Essentialy both IOC Presidents are using their influence and power to award the games to their favorite city.

What Bach is doing is different than what Samaranch did, Samaranch wanted the games in Barcelona because it is home town while Bach want's the games in South Africa so he can say he brought the games to Africa. It's ridiculous and shows how much he really cares about the movement, at least Barcelona helped Spain and the games, Africa hosting will only result in more problems for the IOC and turn off a lot of people. I could see it turning off even the US, and that would be very dangerous for the IOC. But I'm sure he will say...

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What Bach is doing is different than what Samaranch did, Samaranch wanted the games in Barcelona because it is home town while Bach want's the games in South Africa so he can say he brought the games to Africa. It's ridiculous and shows how much he really cares about the movement, at least Barcelona helped Spain and the games, Africa hosting will only result in more problems for the IOC and turn off a lot of people. I could see it turning off even the US, and that would be very dangerous for the IOC.

So how is any of that different from Samaranch wanting to say that he brought the Games to China, 1/5 of humanity. Why do you automatically assume that awarding Games to South Africa would be such a doom-&-gloom disaster & would "turn off a lot of people", including the U.S. Why is it "ridiculous" to finally bring the Olympics to over one billion people that has contributed to the Olympic movement, having many athletes coming from there participating at the Games.

Maybe 2024 might not be the time, but eventually, sometime soon, South Africa is very likely to host. One of the next three Summer Olympic spots is likely to be theirs (if they bid with a feasible plan).

I remember many people citing such bombastic claims with Beijing 2008, but those Games were a complete success. Now the mudslinging is with Rio 2016, but once those Games have come & gone, barring a total disaster (which I don't anticipate), the IOC will want to make their next move in expanding the movement once again. So way to early to start with such doomsday scenarios.

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Because the field was tipped in Barcelona's favor and is being tipped in Durban's or South Africa's for 2028.

Essentialy both IOC Presidents are using their influence and power to award the games to their favorite city.

What Bach is doing is different than what Samaranch did, Samaranch wanted the games in Barcelona because it is home town while Bach want's the games in South Africa so he can say he brought the games to Africa. It's ridiculous and shows how much he really cares about the movement, at least Barcelona helped Spain and the games, Africa hosting will only result in more problems for the IOC and turn off a lot of people. I could see it turning off even the US, and that would be very dangerous for the IOC. But I'm sure he will say...

The field wasn't just tipped in Barcelona's favor.. Samaranch totally manipulated that race so that Barcelona would win. Aside from holding the Winter vote first (thus all but killing Paris' chances of a win), he encouraged additional cities to run to give off the impression that it was a competitive race.

As for Durban, you could easily make the argument the scales are tipped in their favor before Bach got there. The IOC wants to go to Africa. That's nothing new. If he's changing the rules around to make it easier for them, that's one thing. But especially if we're talking 2028, that's someone else who will be presiding over those Olympics, even though the vote will take place under Bach's leadership. Different than Samaranch who would still be in charge come 1992.

And really.. Durban is Bach's favorite city? I doubt that. Like you said, he probably just wants it on his legacy that the Olympics first went to Africa under his watch. All this said though, it's tough to judge history when that history hasn't even happened yet. No one could have known how successful the `92 Olympics would be. By the same token, when Africa gets their Olympics (I say 'when' not 'if' because it's almost assuredly going to happen in the foreseeable future), who knows what it's going to make to that city or that country or to the Olympic movement. Either way, if the standard you're holding them up to is the success of Barcelona `92, that's all but unattainable.

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I agree that the Beijing parallel is more apt for Durban than Barcelona. Beijing was about a bigger statement and a new frontier (like the first African Games would be). Barcelona was a worthy host whose victory was engineered purely out of self-interest.

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So how is any of that different from Samaranch wanting to say that he brought the Games to China, 1/5 of humanity. Why do you automatically assume that awarding Games to South Africa would be such a doom-&-gloom disaster & would "turn off a lot of people", including the U.S. Why is it "ridiculous" to finally bring the Olympics to over one billion people that has contributed to the Olympic movement, having many athletes coming from there participating at the Games.

Maybe 2024 might not be the time, but eventually, sometime soon, South Africa is very likely to host. One of the next three Summer Olympic spots is likely to be theirs (if they bid with a feasible plan).

I remember many people citing such bombastic claims with Beijing 2008, but those Games were a complete success. Now the mudslinging is with Rio 2016, but once those Games have come & gone, barring a total disaster (which I don't anticipate), the IOC will want to make their next move in expanding the movement once again. So way to early to start with such doomsday scenarios.

Obviously South Africa will eventually host, but the nation is NOT ready at this point in time. Hell, 2032 would be a stretch.

Then again that's my opinion, who knows. Maybe I'm being cautious and pessimistic, and South Africa will host a successful games in 2024 or 2028. I just think it's WAY too early and would be a disaster for the IOC. The movement is not where they were ten year ago, they are under heavy criticism for Sochi, high costs, Rio, and if Beijing gets 2022 and Tokyo spends what I am expecting them to having Africa host in 2024 or even 2028 could add even more damage to the movements image.

If Atlanta taught us anything it's that to keep the image of the games positive you need to keep the media happy. The IOC needs to keep them happy and fix their image. Africa is not some magic elixir that will do that.

I agree that the Beijing parallel is more apt for Durban than Barcelona. Beijing was about a bigger statement and a new frontier (like the first African Games would be). Barcelona was a worthy host whose victory was engineered purely out of self-interest.

And a certain Spaniards manipulation of the voting system.

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Bernham, you get yourself in a lot of trouble here because you have a habit of kicking at a dead horse. Stop trying to move heaven and earth to prove arguments here and just move on. If we don't agree with your opinion the first time, we won't agree with it the next 10 times.

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