Quaker2001 Posted June 7, 2014 Report Share Posted June 7, 2014 And is Bach not doing the same thing? His interest is different from Samaranchs, but it is all out of self-interest. So every time an IOC leader makes a decision out of self-interest, you're going to draw a parallel? Bach is telling the world he's going to change things up to make it easier for an African city to win. Until he says Durban, this is not comparable to Samaranch and Barcelona in any meaningful way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athensfan Posted June 7, 2014 Report Share Posted June 7, 2014 Even if he says Durban, it is still not comparable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.bernham Posted June 7, 2014 Report Share Posted June 7, 2014 I'm not talking about Barcelona=Durban, that was not a good comparison and you all made that very clear. I'm talking about how Bach is interested in being the man that brought the games to Africa and Samaranch wanted to be the man who brought the games to China. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athensfan Posted June 7, 2014 Report Share Posted June 7, 2014 Thomas Bach = Juan Antonio Samaranch Durban 2028 = Barcelona 1992 I see parallels, anyone else? Read what you wrote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quaker2001 Posted June 7, 2014 Report Share Posted June 7, 2014 I'm not talking about Barcelona=Durban, that was not a good comparison and you all made that very clear. I'm talking about how Bach is interested in being the man that brought the games to Africa and Samaranch wanted to be the man who brought the games to China. So at what point did you start about China? It sounds like you're trying to make the same comparison but using something different to compare it to. Even still, a bad comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ofan Posted June 7, 2014 Report Share Posted June 7, 2014 It was Rogge's China anyways, not JAS'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.bernham Posted June 8, 2014 Report Share Posted June 8, 2014 China still got the games when JAS was in office. So at what point did you start about China? It sounds like you're trying to make the same comparison but using something different to compare it to. Even still, a bad comparison. Yes, I was making a different comparison. It's not perfect, but it still shows that JAS wanted to be the President who brought the games to China, now Bach is trying to bring the games to Africa. The comparison is not meant to be an exact reflection. History rhymes, it never repeats. Read what you wrote. Yes I see an know what I wrote. Now, I'm talking about China. Still I see what you mean, in the past few days I have been rather annoying with my post and 'Tony' like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted June 8, 2014 Report Share Posted June 8, 2014 Obviously South Africa will eventually host, but the nation is NOT ready at this point in time. Hell, 2032 would be a stretch. I just think it's WAY too early and would be a disaster for the IOC. The movement is not where they were ten year ago, they are under heavy criticism for Sochi, high costs, Rio, and if Beijing gets 2022 and Tokyo spends what I am expecting them to having Africa host in 2024 or even 2028 could add even more damage to the movements image. If Atlanta taught us anything it's that to keep the image of the games positive you need to keep the media happy. The IOC needs to keep them happy and fix their image. Africa is not some magic elixir that will do that. Again, this is just your opinion & it's based off a lot of assumptions on your part. Many argued China "wasn't ready" when they were bidding for the Games. But those skeptics were all proved wrong in the end. I've said it many times before, but I also don't think the IOC is that stupid to expect the same type of grandiosity from the South Africans that they got from the Chinese & the Russians. The South Africans also seem to be taking a much more pragmatic approach in trying to obtain the ultimate goal. The IOC seems to recognize that in order to finally get the Games to Africa, they're gonna have to make some concessions. No crazy expense for an African Games. It's not realistic for the IOC to expect South Africa to spend $40-50 Billion on Games there, like the Chinese & Russians did (besides, the initial budget for Sochi 2014 was $12.5 Billion). The IOC has to be smart enough to realize that. Bcuz even the nations that still could afford such extravagance, don't want to anymore.. But like anyone else, the IOC don't like to be told (or preached) what to do. They'll do it on their own pace. Otherwise, yeah, South Africa likely won't be hosting anytime soon if the IOC wants to continue on the road to over-expense. Tokyo 2020 should also have no bearing. They were the second least expensive bid (after Madrid) that was on the 2020 roster. And Beijing 2022 would be by default, & not necessarily bcuz that's what the IOC wanted. And as far as "making the media happy"; an African Games would so make for an Olympic media blitz. It would be nostalgic, & I'd dare say moreso than Beijing 2008 ever was (which at the time, was the most-watched foreign soil Olympics in the U.S.). So I could only envision an African Olympics having that same type of success, bcuz the world would be waiting with total intrigue, much like it was with China. I don't even know how you could even equate such a potential with Atlanta, which even when they were bidding, were looked at like a complete outsider from the get-go. And then after they won, it was the Games "bought by Coca-Cola". So they were always a Games looked at in mostly a negative light, from start to finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted June 8, 2014 Report Share Posted June 8, 2014 It was Rogge's China anyways, not JAS'. Rogge presided over Beijing 2008. But it was Juan Antonio who was frothing at the mouth for a Chinese Olympics since 1993, & nearly got them 2000 by the hair on his chiny, chin, chin. Much like South America got awarded their first Games on Rogge's watch, but Bach will preside over Rio 2016, I'm sure Bach would at least want to be the president that at least awarded Africa their first Games, even though he most likely won't preside over them when they actually host. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ofan Posted June 8, 2014 Report Share Posted June 8, 2014 Rogge presided over Beijing 2008. But it was Juan Antonio who was frothing at the mouth for a Chinese Olympics since 1993, & nearly got them 2000 by the hair on his chiny, chin, chin. Much like South America got awarded their first Games on Rogge's watch, but Bach will preside over Rio 2016, I'm sure Bach would at least want to be the president that at least awarded Africa their first Games, even though he most likely won't preside over them when they actually host. Yeah, I don't know what I was thinking when I said Beijing's was Rogge's lol. It was JAS' final swan song, just like Rio was part of Rogge's legacy and Durban will probably be a part of Bach's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zekekelso Posted June 8, 2014 Report Share Posted June 8, 2014 JAS wanted to be the President who brought the games to China, now Bach is trying to bring the games to Africa. . There's a bid difference between wanting something, and trying to make something happen. I might buy that Bach wants to see the games in Africa... but I've yet to see any evidence that he's doing anything to actually make it happen. And no, putting a couple sentences into a few speeches doesn't count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quaker2001 Posted June 8, 2014 Report Share Posted June 8, 2014 There's a bid difference between wanting something, and trying to make something happen. I might buy that Bach wants to see the games in Africa... but I've yet to see any evidence that he's doing anything to actually make it happen. And no, putting a couple sentences into a few speeches doesn't count. That's the thing. Samaranch manipulated 2 votes (92 Winter and 92 Summer) to get Barcelona elected. It is very premature to say that Bach may be trying to do the same 3 full years in advance of the 2024 vote that South Africa may or may not even have an entry in And if Samaranch really wanted to be the president who presided over the first Chinese Olympics, what a bad job by him that they lost that election by a measly 2 votes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athensfan Posted June 9, 2014 Report Share Posted June 9, 2014 China was most definitely on the rise in 2001. Likening South Africa to China -- the world's new superpower -- is CLEARLY a bridge too far. They are not even close to being in the same ballpark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted June 9, 2014 Report Share Posted June 9, 2014 I don't think that anyone is 'likening' South Africa to China in that regard. Only in the narrative sense. Greece is certainly no super power, but the narrative of bringing the Olympics "back home" was a powerful one for the IOC to award Athens' 2004. You could argue the same with Brazil, too. France ain't no China, either. But the French would also be strong contenders in any bid race they'd enter. The IOC has Africa on its radar bcuz of the potential the first African Olympics could mean to the movement. Not because South Africa is going to be some rising superpower. - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quaker2001 Posted June 9, 2014 Report Share Posted June 9, 2014 And now I'm reminded why I hate ridiculous comparisons on this site, particularly ones that require explanation and context to show why they're new comparisons in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dysan1 Posted June 9, 2014 Report Share Posted June 9, 2014 Africa hosting will only result in more problems for the IOC and turn off a lot of people. I could see it turning off even the US, and that would be very dangerous for the IOC. But I'm sure he will say... I would love to dig more into the logic behind this because it comes across as rather "down looking" on Africa. So Africa winning an Olympics in your words is BAD and dangerous? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dysan1 Posted June 9, 2014 Report Share Posted June 9, 2014 One other thing. I can almost guarantee if Durban gets the 2022 Commonwealth Games we will sit out 2024 and aim for 2028 Olympics. The statements have been 2022 commonwealth and 2024 olympics because that is what the sports bodies are going for. What is missing from that statement is the OR. If one is won the other will not follow. If the 2022 commonwealths do not happen, then the focus will be 2024 Olympics. At the end of the day the country wants the Olympics, the Commonwealth games are an intermediatary to tide that desire over but not stamp it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
binary Posted June 9, 2014 Report Share Posted June 9, 2014 only thing is the vote for 2028 is a year prior to the 2022 commonwealth games. If the development for those games isnt going that smooth, and its in a strong field, I could see the IOC skipping over them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athensfan Posted June 9, 2014 Report Share Posted June 9, 2014 only thing is the vote for 2028 is a year prior to the 2022 commonwealth games. If the development for those games isnt going that smooth, and its in a strong field, I could see the IOC skipping over them But wouldn't it be better for all concerned if the IOC had that information 7 years before 2028 rather than just 3 years before 2024? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted June 9, 2014 Report Share Posted June 9, 2014 only thing is the vote for 2028 is a year prior to the 2022 commonwealth games. If the development for those games isnt going that smooth, and its in a strong field, I could see the IOC skipping over them I think this goes without saying. But if South Africa does get the 2022 CWG's, & by 2021 their preps are very much in line (which by then they should virtually be complete, it would virtually catapult a 2028 campaign (if they choose to go after those Games instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athensfan Posted June 9, 2014 Report Share Posted June 9, 2014 I think this goes without saying. But if South Africa does get the 2022 CWG's, & by 2021 their preps are very much in line (which by then they should virtually be complete, it would virtually catapult a 2028 campaign (if they choose to go after those Games instead. Absolutely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dysan1 Posted June 10, 2014 Report Share Posted June 10, 2014 Agree FYI. I am personally of the belief that a 2022/2024 combo is idiotic and Rio all over again. If the city is successful in the 2022 commonwealth bid it will sit out 2024, develop it's ammunition and aim at 2028. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Money1983 Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 I know I'm probably a bit late on the Durban '24 forum. All I can say is- even four years after the FIFA World Cup, I can not imagine another major sporting event held in Africa in the near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted September 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 Agree FYI. I am personally of the belief that a 2022/2024 combo is idiotic and Rio all over again. If the city is successful in the 2022 commonwealth bid it will sit out 2024, develop it's ammunition and aim at 2028. Altho timing-wise, things wouldn't be in sync. The IOC would pick 2028 in 2021. If Durban gets the CWG 2022, it doesn't deliver the Games until a year after the IOC picks the 2028 host, so how would that really be a knock-out blow for Durban's chances? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony E Loves Architecture Posted September 2, 2014 Report Share Posted September 2, 2014 I know I'm probably a bit late on the Durban '24 forum. All I can say is- even four years after the FIFA World Cup, I can not imagine another major sporting event held in Africa in the near future. I disagree, especially as Africa is the only Continent to have not Hosted the Olympics yet. Also, Durban is capable. They are the strongest City in Africa and has some Infrastructure from the 2010 Fifa World Cup, including the Football Stadium. 2028 does seem a realistic opportunity for Durban to Host. Durban could use the 'First African Host', like Rio De Janeiro used the 'First South America Host' for the 2016 Summer Olympics and Paralympics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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