baron-pierreIV Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 It is harsh, but true. Honestly, he always stinks it up royally in international competitions. Always. I can't believe US Figure Skating was so stupid. But he earned it fair and square at Nationals -- and he is a 4x nat'l champ. Surely, they couldn't "fix" the men's results again as they already did with the women by dropping Nagasu. It's just a weak field for the US men this year. Hopefully, he'll redeem himself in singles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiveRingFever Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 Understood. And yes, I understand it's only the points derived from the ordinals, not the scores that are tallied. Was hoping they started with a clean slate in the long. C'est la vie. US Figure Skating should've known better than to have Abbott skate. I expect him to meltdown in the singles competition as well. He just projects psychological weakness and imbalance to me -- in every single interview I've ever seen with him. The sad thing is that if Ashley implodes too, the US could well not even make the top five. They really didn't have much choice since Brown doesn't have a quad. Having only two men's skaters qualify is really a detriment. Max Aaron would have been ideal for the short program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breathesgelatin Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 To me, the absolute most annoying thing about Abbott in this team event was his remarks afterwards. Oh, NOW you've had your Olympic disaster, eh? (thought that was four years ago.) And NOW you'll skate well?!?! Tell that to your teammates who have no chance of winning an Olympic medal except in the team event. Total arrogance. I mean, I guess it's the type of thing skaters are used to saying, but in this team event, it's NOT all about YOU. Not to mention that this is the guy who could barely get to his opening position at Nationals on time, and then who, admittedly after skating well, went around the arena glorying in his triumph like crazy. I just feel like he has little sense of self-awareness, particularly what he's actually been able to accomplish in this sport. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiveRingFever Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 To me, the absolute most annoying thing about Abbott in this team event was his remarks afterwards. Oh, NOW you've had your Olympic disaster, eh? (thought that was four years ago.) And NOW you'll skate well?!?! Tell that to your teammates who have no chance of winning an Olympic medal except in the team event. Total arrogance. I mean, I guess it's the type of thing skaters are used to saying, but in this team event, it's NOT all about YOU. Not to mention that this is the guy who could barely get to his opening position at Nationals on time, and then who, admittedly after skating well, went around the arena glorying in his triumph like crazy. I just feel like he has little sense of self-awareness, particularly what he's actually been able to accomplish in this sport.Exc. The team event is his only realistic chance of winning an Olympic medal. Totally agree. It should be a good character test for the rest of the team. I still think they can pull out a bronze. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athensfan Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 But he earned it fair and square at Nationals -- and he is a 4x nat'l champ. Surely, they couldn't "fix" the men's results again as they already did with the women by dropping Nagasu. It's just a weak field for the US men this year. Hopefully, he'll redeem himself in singles. No, he earned a spot as a singles skater. They did not HAVE to put him in the team competition. That was a stupid choice that was not contingent on Nationals. Yes, the American men are weaker, but I can think of three other skaters who would've done better than Abbott in the team event. That wasn't "weak" that was a meltdown and it was 100% predictable. Jason Brown should've done both short and long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiveRingFever Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 This is a really good thread by the way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athensfan Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 To me, the absolute most annoying thing about Abbott in this team event was his remarks afterwards. Oh, NOW you've had your Olympic disaster, eh? (thought that was four years ago.) And NOW you'll skate well?!?! Tell that to your teammates who have no chance of winning an Olympic medal except in the team event. Total arrogance. I mean, I guess it's the type of thing skaters are used to saying, but in this team event, it's NOT all about YOU. Not to mention that this is the guy who could barely get to his opening position at Nationals on time, and then who, admittedly after skating well, went around the arena glorying in his triumph like crazy. I just feel like he has little sense of self-awareness, particularly what he's actually been able to accomplish in this sport. I agree that the cavalier way he flushed the rest of the team down the toilet was disgusting. But that was predictable too, wasn't it? He's always been a narcissist, which is why he has the psychological problems he has. Everything is about him. I will be even more disgusted if he becomes an Olympic bronze medallist with that "performance." Really can't stand the guy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faster Posted February 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 (edited) Kevin Reynolds will be skating for Canada in the Men's Long. Which pretty much means Canada will finish 3rd in the men's. A lot of Canada's position will now depend on Osmond. I would say that realistically 5th is the best she can do. But, Kostner and Wagner are inconsistent skaters. We'll see. Wouldn't be surprised if Canada only got bronze. We definitely need two 10's from Virtue/Moir. Canada is looking at between 61 and 66 points.. Russia is probably looking at 70 points. Edited February 7, 2014 by faster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiveRingFever Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 Kevin Reynolds will be skating for Canada in the Men's Long. Which pretty much means Canada will finish 3rd in the men's. A lot of Canada's position will now depend on Osmond. I would say that realistically 5th is the best she can do. But, Kostner and Wagner are inconsistent skaters. We'll see. Wouldn't be surprised if Canada only got bronze. We definitely need two 10's from Virtue/Moir. I would say Canada will get 19 points from Ice Dance, either 7 or 8 from Reynolds, 10 total from Osmond and 8 or 9 from our second pair. So 62ish points. Russia is probably looking at 70 points. There will only be five teams left. Will the placements be ranked 10 through 6? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breathesgelatin Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 Kevin Reynolds will be skating for Canada in the Men's Long. Which pretty much means Canada will finish 3rd in the men's. A lot of Canada's position will now depend on Osmond. I would say that realistically 5th is the best she can do. But, Kostner and Wagner are inconsistent skaters. We'll see. Wouldn't be surprised if Canada only got bronze. We definitely need two 10's from Virtue/Moir. Canada is looking at between 61 and 66 points.. Russia is probably looking at 70 points. It's somewhat surprising how some feds are pretty much allowing the national champion or 'A skater' to choose whether or not they skate in the Team event. Wonder if this is what the ISU/IOC envisioned for the competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faster Posted February 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 Well for Canada, our Pairs are ranked highly and a clean skate from either is good enough for 2nd place given the field. And honestly Reynolds is a wonderful skater. I do believe Chan wanted to skate the short program primarily because it has given him such trouble this year, whereas competitive logic would have had Reynolds skating short and Chan the long. Canada needs Osmond to take the next step in her skating (which she is capable of) and have either one of the Russians falter to get close. Also really have to respect the Russian pairs, and Virtue/Moir/White/Davis for saying that want to compete, compete in both programs and do the absolute best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox334 Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 Reynolds skating the long is pretty much the end of any gold medal run for Canada. Still, as long as Osmond skates steady it should be enough for Canada to get a silver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intoronto Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 P.J. Kwong? Fairly sure I heard somewhere she was indeed the one doing it. She is also a freelancer that does quite a bit of work with CBC. I thought it was here too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athensfan Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 I have to say I was surprised by Plushenko. Expected more obvious signs of age and rust. He's a narcissist too, BUT he can skate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faster Posted February 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 Reynolds skating the long is pretty much the end of any gold medal run for Canada. Still, as long as Osmond skates steady it should be enough for Canada to get a silver. Don't count your medals before the fat lady sings. Plushenko could have a horrible night and Reynolds the skate of his life. Osmond could put up a combined 200 score while Yulia struggles due to the pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walei Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 The French Sports magazine L'Equipe is breaking the news that Russia and USA is trading votes at the expense of Canada's Virtue and Moir http://www.canada.com/olympics/?p=86919 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intoronto Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 wow. Can this have been seen in the slopestyle event? Those two countries judges shouldn't judge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nykfan845 Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 Hooray for baseless claims! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiveRingFever Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 The French Sports magazine L'Equipe is breaking the news that Russia and USA is trading votes at the expense of Canada's Virtue and Moir http://www.canada.com/olympics/?p=86919 I'm calling BS on that. Do they think it's 2002? It's pretty hard to pull off a fix since the judges' scores are anonymous and they don't know if their score will even count. And it's based upon point not ordinals. No evidence is given of a fix either. Waaaahhh!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nykfan845 Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 I'm calling BS on that. Do they think it's 2002? It's pretty hard to pull off a fix since the judges' scores are anonymous and they don't know if their score will even count. And it's based upon point not ordinals. No evidence is given of a fix either. Waaaahhh!! It's really unfair to undermine Davis/White and the Russian skaters like that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faster Posted February 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 I only think its not likely just because Plushenko was such an unknown that a trade giving Russia the gold would be impossible to guarantee. I'm sure the IOC will look into it, but there is nothing in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiveRingFever Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 Looks like Russia and Canada are resting their pairs teams for the individual competition. Medals seem to be decided now barring total disaster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox334 Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 Looks like Russia and Canada are resting their pairs teams for the individual competition. Medals seem to be decided now barring total disaster. Pretty much. It would take a total meltdown for Russia to lose gold, a total meltdown for Canada to lose silver and a total meltdown for the US to lose bronze. That was always my biggest problem with the team event: the long program is such an anti-climax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athensfan Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 wow. Can this have been seen in the slopestyle event? Those two countries judges shouldn't judge. There's zero proof. It's the FRENCH reporting it. AND Russia is going to win the pairs and team event anyway just like Davis and White seem pretty sure for ice dancing gold. Why would anyone fix something that appears almost certain anyway? I really resent your "those two countries shouldn't judge." I take personal offense at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breathesgelatin Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 I have to say I was surprised by Plushenko. Expected more obvious signs of age and rust. He's a narcissist too, BUT he can skate. I was surprised how well he did. Despite never really having been a fan of his skating, no one can discount that he's 31 years old and up there performing jumps. I give him all the credit for that. I found that I myself was rooting for him! That said, in viewing his other two competitions this year, the long is more of a struggle for him. More jumping passes, longer, more time to fill up with choreography/spins, which are his weaker points by far. Plus his crazy 'Best of Plushenko' program for the long, which leads to odd music cuts. That said, he seems to be able to turn it on when it counts, so.... I'll be curious if he persists after the Team event. I'm calling BS on that. Do they think it's 2002? It's pretty hard to pull off a fix since the judges' scores are anonymous and they don't know if their score will even count. And it's based upon point not ordinals. No evidence is given of a fix either. Waaaahhh!! There's no question that it would be far more difficult to fix results under the system. I don't know that it's impossible. Some would argue that the anonymity is one element that might make it easier to fix. USFSA is going to propose eliminating anonymity to the ISU next year. I should add, that one thing I and many other skating fans find unfortunate is that some judges have a tendency to use the PCS (the second score, formerly 'artistic impression') as an ordinal to rank the skaters. So, for example, there are five elements in the PCS: choreography, interpretation, skating skills, transitions, and performance/execution. Theoretically, it should be possible for a skater to have, let's say, great performance/execution, but weak choreography. However, there is a tendency among judges to assign a skater the same score across the PCS marks, say, a 7 or something, for all the elements of PCS. Whether this is an artifact of judges loving their ordinals, or because they're spending so much time assigning GOE to spins, footwork, and jumps, that they don't have time to pay attention to PCS, I don't know. I am generally pro-new-system and don't want to return to 6.0, but this is an issue with the new system, for sure. You can pretty easily manipulate PCS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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