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My understanding is that she's gone back to last year's long program, "Samson and Delilah" while retaining parts of this year's choreography. I've heard nothing about Frankenstein.

http://m.teamusa.org/Road-to-Sochi-2014/Features/2014/January/23/New-Program-Gives-Ashley-Wagner-New-Found-Confidence

That's right

Wagner faltered twice at Nationals, and she said afterwards that the pressure got to her. Not exactly what you want to hear going into the Olympics. I'm sure USFA is praying that she doesn't melt down in the short, given how she made the team. I guess when you get down to it, the only ones I feel good about are White and Davis, which is why I'm only picking the U.S for bronze.

I guess it depends on what you think about 'peaking'. If you think Wagner already peaked, then she's on the downswing and Gracie's on a major upswing. I don't really buy into the theory of 'peaking' completely, and I think Wagner had way more consistent results over the course of the season than Gracie did.

There's also the psychological argument - is there something specific about the Olympics that's making Wagner melt down? I don't know about that either. That said, you could probably convince me that Gracie's last month working with Frank Carroll after her final Grand Prix event made a real difference for Gracie, particularly psychologically, and it's made all the difference, given her the edge over Ashley, blah blah blah.

I guess the proof will be in the pudding at the Olympics, n'est-ce pas?

My understanding is that she's gone back to last year's long program, "Samson and Delilah" while retaining parts of this year's choreography. I've heard nothing about Frankenstein.

http://m.teamusa.org/Road-to-Sochi-2014/Features/2014/January/23/New-Program-Gives-Ashley-Wagner-New-Found-Confidence

LOL. Yes, fans are calling it a 'Frankenstein' program because it will be Samson & Delilah, but she's not going back completely to last year's choreography, but mixing in some of the Romeo & Juliet free program with the old Samson & Delilah program. Thus 'Frankenstein.' For many, this strategy seems to be a potential recipe for disaster especially since her relationship with her old choreographer Phillip Mills (who did Samson & Delilah, Black Swan, etc., for her) seems to have deteriorated to the point where she can't go back to work with him to revive Samson & Delilah...

Or maybe you were just being sarcastic... I can't tell sometimes!

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Thanks for explaining. Makes total sense now. I honestly thought FRANKENSTEIN, which sounded like such a God awful disaster. Can you imagine?! Appreciate the clarification.

It does seem to me like mixing the two would create real problems. Muscle memory and all that. She certainly won't be able to just "go out there and skate." She's going to have to think through every moment. That can't be good. I don't understand why she didn't just go back to ALL of Samson and Delilah. Why does she need the choreographer now? She's got the footage of last year's programs. Wouldn't that make more sense?

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I just went back and watched Send in the Clowns again. I can't explain it, but that weird green/gold outfit is growing on me. It's very unique. I kind of like it now and I'm not really sure why.

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Canada's pulling out the big guns: Patrick Chan and Duhamel/Radford confirmed for the short programs.

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Thanks for explaining. Makes total sense now. I honestly thought FRANKENSTEIN, which sounded like such a God awful disaster. Can you imagine?! Appreciate the clarification.

It does seem to me like mixing the two would create real problems. Muscle memory and all that. She certainly won't be able to just "go out there and skate." She's going to have to think through every moment. That can't be good. I don't understand why she didn't just go back to ALL of Samson and Delilah. Why does she need the choreographer now? She's got the footage of last year's programs. Wouldn't that make more sense?

Yes, exactly, re: muscle memory. It's so weird. I don't know the specific reasons why she's doing the mish-mashing... there could be a few. For one, sometimes skaters aren't able to go directly back to their old programs if rule changes were instituted in the meantime... programs are so carefully designed to get points under the new system, if the rules change, then you can't go back to the exact program, or at least you can't if you want to score points! E.g., Kanako Murakami, who went back to her 2011-12 short program midway through the season... but the program now has significant changes because of rule changes. I know the COP system pretty well, but I don't keep up with every single ISU communication, so I can't go into detail about why she had to change it unfortunately. With Wagner, she's going back to last year's program, so in theory there shouldn't be too many rules changes... but, we also know her jumping layout has changed with the addition of the triple-triple combo this year, so she has to account for that.

Another thing to consider is that when skaters return to older programs they usually engage the original choreographer to come help them work on it. E.g., we know Carolina Kostner spent some time with Lori Nichol doing a totally new short (Ave Maria) and getting Bolero ready to return before Euros this year. In this case, it's pretty common knowledge that there was some falling out between Mills and Wagner, so she can't go back to him now to have him help revive the program. Maybe she's working with David Wilson, I don't know. I hope USFSA threw all their money and people at her to help her get this program up to snuff.

On the other hand, if you buy into 'peaking,' it's often been said Wagner 'peaks early' or at least seems to skate well really well in the season and falter later on. If you buy that narrative about her, maybe switching the program is a great idea.

I just went back and watched Send in the Clowns again. I can't explain it, but that weird green/gold outfit is growing on me. It's very unique. I kind of like it now and I'm not really sure why.

I really like the Send in the Clowns dress. It's so unusual in color but classic in line. I think Yuna pulls it off well.

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Start orders for tomorrow are up on the official site. Top German and Chinese pairs apparently sitting out the team event. Makes perfect sense actually and definitely helps out the Americans.

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Yes, exactly, re: muscle memory. It's so weird. I don't know the specific reasons why she's doing the mish-mashing... there could be a few. For one, sometimes skaters aren't able to go directly back to their old programs if rule changes were instituted in the meantime... programs are so carefully designed to get points under the new system, if the rules change, then you can't go back to the exact program, or at least you can't if you want to score points! E.g., Kanako Murakami, who went back to her 2011-12 short program midway through the season... but the program now has significant changes because of rule changes. I know the COP system pretty well, but I don't keep up with every single ISU communication, so I can't go into detail about why she had to change it unfortunately. With Wagner, she's going back to last year's program, so in theory there shouldn't be too many rules changes... but, we also know her jumping layout has changed with the addition of the triple-triple combo this year, so she has to account for that.

Another thing to consider is that when skaters return to older programs they usually engage the original choreographer to come help them work on it. E.g., we know Carolina Kostner spent some time with Lori Nichol doing a totally new short (Ave Maria) and getting Bolero ready to return before Euros this year. In this case, it's pretty common knowledge that there was some falling out between Mills and Wagner, so she can't go back to him now to have him help revive the program. Maybe she's working with David Wilson, I don't know. I hope USFSA threw all their money and people at her to help her get this program up to snuff.

On the other hand, if you buy into 'peaking,' it's often been said Wagner 'peaks early' or at least seems to skate well really well in the season and falter later on. If you buy that narrative about her, maybe switching the program is a great idea.

I really like the Send in the Clowns dress. It's so unusual in color but classic in line. I think Yuna pulls it off well.

I have to say the music for "Romeo and Juliet" felt a bit jarring and frenetic to me. I certainly would've had trouble connecting to it. Yeah, it's Russian, but that ain't everything.

By contrast, "Samson and Delilah" has more obvious musicality. I just watched her Trophee Bompard "Samson and Delilah" and she is OBVIOUSLY so much more IN the program. She looks like she's enjoying it even before she realizes how well she's doing. I hope she keeps that opening sequence. Sets the stage beautifully. I don't think it's possible to have "too much attack" with that music either. I hope her inner actress comes out and she really bites into it.

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Start orders for tomorrow are up on the official site. Top German and Chinese pairs apparently sitting out the team event. Makes perfect sense actually and definitely helps out the Americans.

Germany doesn't have a hope there anyway, and since Savchenko/Szolkowy have totally focussed on getting the gold finally, it does make sense indeed.

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I was sceptical about the Teams Event- thinking the IOC were just trying to milk the most popular event for TV. But all these machinations, intrigues, combinations etc... has made this a very exciting build up to an interesting event. For the top skaters itbis a chance for an extra medal- or a chance to tire or injure yourself, or blow a routine and lose confidence for later in the Games.

It is like chess meets figure skating- will be intriguing to see how it pans out!

Good luck to your Teams (Australia was first reserve :unsure: , so we miss out on making up the numbers!!)

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I was gonna say something about this being basically a qualification event the day before the Opening Ceremony, than I thought and realized this is figure skating in Russia, that sh!t should be sold out.

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I was gonna say something about this being basically a qualification event the day before the Opening Ceremony, than I thought and realized this is figure skating in Russia, that sh!t should be sold out.

Exactly! Figure Skating is the Premiere Event for Russians and I'm surprised I see so many empty seats in the arena.

Some of these male figure skaters costumes are just ridiculous..lol

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I just posted in the -1 day thread but the top level is actually packed - just saw a shot.

It's a shame the bottom level has those big gaps but I'm blaming on it being pre opening ceremony at the Moment

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That sucked, common Chan.

Well 8 points isn't that bad even though he was a bit off.

Team Canada Pairs team should contend for 1st with the Chinese and Russians. Another 10, 9 or 8 points here.

Edited by dave199

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Well 8 points isn't that bad even though he was a bit off.

Team Canada Pairs team should contend for 1st with the Chinese and Russians. Another 10, 9 or 8 points here.

Its basically game over for the Canadian team. Russia will beat us in pairs and ladies and will be one or two places behind in dance. They had to beat Plushenko to have a chance to win.

Disaster notwithstanding Russia will win gold (and Canada silver).

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Its basically game over for the Canadian team. Russia will beat us in pairs and ladies and will be one or two places behind in dance. They had to beat Plushenko to have a chance to win.

Disaster notwithstanding Russia will win gold (and Canada silver).

Or if Plushenko messes up in the long program.

Canada is fourth in pairs, behind the Russians, Germans and Chinese.

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