2023 Pan American Games

[FYI]

Well In my opinion, and no offense to you, but I think that is a pretty poor way to carry on a discussion. It seems out of your character because what I read from you is mostly intriguing, informative, and educated.

Judging by Quaker's post, you didn't accomplish that either. And that was what I was intially going after ITFP.

[Tony E Loves Architecture]

I was thinking, couldn't Boston bid for this, to host it as a warm up IF they host the 2024 Summer Olympics? Like Rio De Janeiro did for 2016 Summer Olympics with the 2007 Pan American Games.

[intoronto]

I was thinking, couldn't Boston bid for this, to host it as a warm up IF they host the 2024 Summer Olympics? Like Rio De Janeiro did for 2016 Summer Olympics with the 2007 Pan American Games.

No

[Tony E Loves Architecture]

No

Why? It could improve their chances.

[FYI]

Improve their chances on what, exactly? "IF" Boston hosts the 2024 Olympics, how exactly does the 2023 Pan Ams "improve their chances". Especially when the two events would be a mere year apart in that scenario. THAT would only HINDER Boston (or any city, for that matter) than help in preparing for two large-scale sporting events back-to-back. That's no "warm-up", but a HUGE fricken headache, to say the least.

Rio's case is not even remotely close. Since 2016 & 2007 are NINE years apart, & Rio hosted those Pan Ams BEFORE Rio bid for 2016. Boston OTOH, is already the USOC's candidate for 2024. So I'd say just by that alone, their chances are already "improved", regardless of the Pan Ams. So IOW, that would be a big fat NO to the 2023 Pan Ams.

[baron-pierreIV]

And for any chosen Olympic host city, the year before is reserved for "test events;" so having another major tournament simultaneously with and just 365 days before is OUT OF DA QUESTION!! It's simply NOT feasible!!

[Tatsh]

Mar Del Plata is proposed as host city for the Pan American Games 2023

http://www.lanueva.com/deportes/803240/proponen-a-mar-del-plata-como-sede-de-los-juegos-panamericanos-2023.html

And San Juan also.

http://www.primerahora.com/videos/solicitaransededelosjuegospanamericanos2023-143132/

[BR2028]

Field is starting to fill up. I really hope that New Orleans bid turns out to be something.

[MissEurasia]

Ooooh, I hope San Juan or New Orleans host the 2023 PanAms would be awesome to see the Superdome host the Ceremonies!

[BR2028]

Ooooh, I hope San Juan or New Orleans host the 2023 PanAms would be awesome to see the Superdome host the Ceremonies!

That could be interesting, but it would be a logistical nightmare.

[Roger87]

I was thinking, couldn't Boston bid for this, to host it as a warm up IF they host the 2024 Summer Olympics? Like Rio De Janeiro did for 2016 Summer Olympics with the 2007 Pan American Games.

That was the reason Turkey need to rip on one of the 2020 events - the Euro UEFA and the SOG. Or Brazil need to change the dates for the 2015 Copa America. It's a crazy idea. Not gonna happen.

Mar Del Plata is proposed as host city for the Pan American Games 2023

http://www.lanueva.com/deportes/803240/proponen-a-mar-del-plata-como-sede-de-los-juegos-panamericanos-2023.html

And San Juan also.

http://www.primerahora.com/videos/solicitaransededelosjuegospanamericanos2023-143132/

Nice choices. Still I keep wondering if Santiago or Panama City will enter in the race as some sources have mentioned before.

[LatinXTC]

It's a shame that san Antonio won't/ hasn't bid for the 2023 Pan American games. I'm here getting drunk and really think this is a good place for such an event!

[paul]

....where are you in SA? it's a fantastic town, i love it!!!!

[LatinXTC]

....where are you in SA? it's a fantastic town, i love it!!!!

Along the riverwalk,the Westin.

[Victor Mata]

San Antonio (and any other american city) is completely silent after the failed 2007 bid. This article here make it seem like San Antonio 2007 was one of the first victims of the rusted relations of USOC and other international federations and organizations:

U.S. Olympic Committee faulted for failed Pan Am Games bid

San Antonio officials in Mexico City were brimming with confidence Saturday, Aug. 24, prior to making their pitch to host the 2007 Pan American Games. That confidence would be dashed only hours later, when Rio de Janeiro walked away with the prize. Now, the cries of "San Antonio in 2011" have begun, as has some finger pointing.

Sources who were in Mexico City for the host-city presentations say San Antonio's chances of winning the international sporting event may have been hampered by a United States Olympic Committee (USOC) with strained international relations. In the plus column for San Antonio in the bid for the games was its strong Hispanic heritage and high-profile amateur sports rèsumé. Despite those advantages, some sources close to the bid process contend that the USOC's cool relationship with the Pan American Sports Organization (PASO) - and some of its member countries - tilted the scales toward Rio de Janeiro.

PASO is the governing body for the Pan American Games and is comprised of 42 nations in North, Central and South America and the Caribbean. The USOC determines if it will bid on the Pan American Games and lobbies on behalf of the U.S. designate city before PASO delegates.

But some sources say the USOC's leverage with PASO is suspect. And Dr. David Schmidt, who was in Mexico City as managing chair of the San Antonio Pan American Games Bid Committee, says top PASO officials have repeatedly challenged the USOC to become a more prominent player in international sports.

The bid committee was charged with promoting the city's bid for the Pan American Games and represented San Antonio at the PASO presentations in Mexico City. In its 51-year history, only one U.S. city - Chicago in 1959 - has ever been selected to host the Pan American Games. Indianapolis hosted the 1987 games, but that was a rescue effort when Ecuador bailed out as the host country. On the eve of the PASO vote, Schmidt told the Business Journal: "Confidence exudes. We're looking very good." When he was asked about the late maneuvers by Rio de Janeiro officials to sway the outcome of the vote with grandiose incentives, Schmidt said, "None of it will change anything. None of what they have done will make a difference."

However, in the wake of San Antonio's hopes for the Pan American Games going up in smoke, Schmidt now says there were signs of trouble behind the scenes. "Early on in the process, we were very concerned with what was happening," says Schmidt about the USOC's role in San Antonio's bid effort. "It was difficult to get them moving."

Reflecting on the USOC's impact on the lobbying process in Mexico City, Schmidt adds, "They just didn't have the power or the punch." Schmidt says part of the USOC's shortcomings in Mexico City could be attributed to internal management changes. On Aug. 15, only days before the PASO vote, the USOC named Marty Mankamyer as its president. She had been serving in an acting role, filling in for former USOC President Sandy Baldwin, who had stepped down early from the post. There have been other big moves as well. In 2000, Norm Blake, CEO of the USOC, unexpectedly resigned under pressure after serving only nine months of a three-year term. He was replaced by Scott Blackmun. As for Mankamyer, she has already stirred some controversy. Although her predecessor was reportedly working to strengthen the USOC's shaky international image, Mankamyer told reporters a couple of weeks before she officially became president: "I believe the domestic side is where I must concentrate." "I think you can say that they (the USOC) have had a less than stellar international image for years," says Schmidt about the USOC. "They certainly are not a PASO insider."

Mankamyer says she disagrees with those who fault the USOC for San Antonio's loss. She adds that, in her opinion, the selection of Rio de Janeiro was predetermined. Asked if cultural differences between the USOC and PASO nations hurt the Alamo City's cause, Mankamyer says, "It certainly puts a different spin on things and makes it more difficult." Mankamyer adds that the USOC has not sent the same person to PASO meetings over the last several years, which she says might be a contributing factor as well. "It (the vote) was not the San Antonio delegation's fault and it was not the USOC's fault," Mankamyer stresses. " ... We're trying to solve some problems here. I'm looking to do whatever I can to change things." Schmidt adds, "I think we (San Antonio and the USOC) can work together. We need to. But it is incumbent upon the USOC leadership that there be some real aggressive politicking. There is nothing more we could have done."

Robert Marbut is a former San Antonio City Councilman and a ranking member with the USOC. He says San Antonio is in a very good position to try and land the 2011 Pan American Games. But he adds that some serious discussions need to take place first. "For the good of the city," says Marbut, "there needs to be a decision by the entire community that this is what we want to do. We need a consensus that we should go forward."

A big part of those discussions, explains Marbut, will have to address how San Antonio could construct a financial plan that is more competitive in light of the roughly $100 million discrepancy between the financial packages that were offered by Rio de Janeiro and San Antonio. "It's very complicated determining if San Antonio can compete," says Marbut. "Can a city (like San Antonio) bid against a country (like Brazil)? That's what we were up against. That's very difficult."

Despite the heavy confidence by the San Antonio Bid Committee going into the final hours, Marbut says it would have been rare for the Alamo City to have been selected to host the Pan American Games on its first try. "It would have been a fluke," he says. The Business Journal has learned that, after naming Rio de Janeiro as host of the 2007 Pan American Games, PASO officials came close to granting San Antonio the 2011 games. Marbut says PASO President Mario Vasquez Raña considered conducting a straw vote on the matter, but it never happened, explains Marbut, because such a move would have been premature. "That wasn't practical," says Marbut. "I almost choked when I heard that. There's just too much logistical information that would need to be determined first." One circumstance beyond San Antonio's control could make it difficult for San Antonio to host the 2011 Pan American Games. There is a chance that a U.S. city could land the 2012 Summer Olympics.

"That could be a problem for San Antonio," says Marbut, explaining that it could be politically and logistically tough staging both events in the United States so close together. But he does add that it might be possible to package the two events in some way. There are rumblings that San Antonio might be better off competing for high-profile American sporting events, instead of competing against entire nations' deep pockets. But Marbut says, "Bidding up is happening with American events too."

Local urban planner and Chairman Emeritus of the San Antonio Sports Foundation Ralph Bender was part of the delegation in Mexico City. "It's ludicrous to think we would throw in the towel," he says about the 2011 games. But he does admit that local and state officials are going to have to provide more funding for San Antonio to have a shot. "Everyone is going to have to step up," says Bender. "Not just the city."

Says Schmidt, "We have to go through the process. But I'm going to lobby like hell (to make a bid). We didn't start this to get beat and get out."

Source: http://www.bizjournals.com/sanantonio/stories/2002/09/02/story1.html?page=all

[baron-pierreIV]

/\/\ I think the reason the USOC discounts the PanAm Games or hosting one, is that it is too focused on trying to win either of the Olympic ones. Also, because the PanAms happen the year before the SOGs, the USOC feels it takes away too much in preparing the athletes for more important meets like the IAAF world Champs and the FIVB tournaments (the World League, the Grand Prix, the World Cups) which are better training grounds for those respective teams/athletes and happen in the PanAm summer rather than the very regionalized PanAms -- which is why the USOC is left sending most of the "B" team to the PanAms.

And if, obviously the USOC hosted the PanAms, as it did in 1987, then it would be committed to sending the very best athletes to it, as host nation, thereby throwing off the present training regimen for, as mentioned, the T&F events and the FIVB competitions. So very possibly, the US federations also hold sway in why the US had not gotten serious in going after and trying to host a PanAm Games once more.

Edited September 2, 2015 by baron-pierreIV

[LatinXTC]

/\/\ I think the reason the USOC discounts the PanAm Games or hosting one, is that it is too focused on trying to win either of the Olympic ones. Also, because the PanAms happen the year before the SOGs, the USOC feels it takes away too much in preparing the athletes for more important meets like the IAAF world Champs and the FIVB tournaments (the World League, the Grand Prix, the World Cups) which are better training grounds for those respective teams/athletes rather than the very regionalized PanAms.

Which is why I think moving the Pan Am Games the year after the Summer Olympics is far more convenient. They won't move it the 2 years in between it since that summer is the World Cup summer.

A US bid could also try to host it in September or October like Guadalajara did so they don't have to worry about interfering with the world championships of a variety of sports. The only problem with that is a lot of facilities will still be used for MLS games, NFL games, and possibly NHL, MLB, and NBA games. And also college facilities will be in use, and dorms can't be used for athletes villages.

Or maybe they can have it as early as June, or maybe even the end of May when college students are out. Honestly San Antonio is a perfect choice since the only major sports team they have are the Spurs for the NBA. And they have a large-capacity stadium that will be readily available.

[baron-pierreIV]

Nope. They can't move it to the year AFTER the SOGs because some of the federations use it as their qualifier for the SOGs, and some of the smaller, poorer countries use it as their Olympic filter as well. That's why the Euro Games, the All-Africa Games and they had hoped to move the Asian Games to 2019 because they serve as Olympic qualifiers. So when the Asians eventually get moved, then all these regional meets will be synchronized to serve as lead-ups to the SOGs which happen in the Leap Year.

[intoronto]

Detroit?

http://www.worldvictorygames.org/

[LatinXTC]

Detroit?

http://www.worldvictorygames.org/

LOL no. Not even for the Pan American Games. That place is just falling apart and an event like the Olympics or Pan American games won't change that. The facilities will be completely wasted. Give it to a city that is showing actual growth in population and economy.

[paul]

Well to be honest, Troy is absolutely an incredible area, lots of money, very prosperous and rather high class. There is vast wealth there and downtown is sort of like a suburb for Troy that has it's issues but also offers the benefits of a close by large urban hub with all the trapping that entails.

Anyway, there is a lot wrong with Detroit and it's politics, but it's not all about downtown Detroit and abandoned decay due it's citizens vast culture of entitlement and lack of productive contribution.

Edited September 6, 2015 by paul

[baron-pierreIV]

I mean the Detroit area's largest immigrant community are the Arabs. The PanAms should take place in heavily Latin areas like LA. Texas, Miami -- not Detroit.

[Victor Mata]

Or maybe not... The Pan American Games are not supposed to be a celebration of Hispanic-American culture. Much of the continent's diversity is still barely represented in the PanAms. Just as an example, 17 editions of the games so far and no francophone city has ever hosted them, despite French being recognized by PASO's motto.

It's certainly easier to sell the games in places where there are large communities of foreign Latin American populations like Texas, LA and Florida. But It's better for the movement if cities (specially North American cities) can be authentic about themselves and do their own thing, conecting the games to its own communities and quit all that awkward maraca shaking and rumba dancing.

[intoronto]

Or maybe not... The Pan American Games are not supposed to be a celebration of Hispanic-American culture. Much of the continent's diversity is still barely represented in the PanAms. Just as an example, 17 editions of the games so far and no francophone city has ever hosted them, despite French being recognized by PASO's motto.

It's certainly easier to sell the games in places where there are large communities of foreign Latin American populations like Texas, LA and Florida. But It's better for the movement if cities (specially North American cities) can be authentic about themselves and do their own thing, conecting the games to its own communities and quit all that awkward maraca shaking and rumba dancing.

But realistically only Montreal or Quebec City can host, and there probably isn't an appetite in either city (76 and Quebec's ambitions for a WOG) being a barrier to a successful bid.

[Victor Mata]

True. But that was just an example. The Pan American Games doesn't have to pay tribute to Hispanic American heritage wherever they're hosted outside Hispanic American cultural hotspots.