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Which 4 cities do u think will make the 2022 Short List?

Which will be the 2022 Finalist cities?  

116 members have voted

  1. 1. Pick 4 that u think will make the Short List.

    • Almaty
      77
    • Beijing-Yankeejoe
      68
    • Krakow-Jasna
      81
    • Lviv
      27
    • Oslo-Kvitjfell
      108
    • Stockholm-Are
      72


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@p85 from Poland. Is it easy to go to Slovakia and go back from there?If Krakow won the bid millions of tourists will visit 2 countries and is procedure smooth at immigration when crossing border?

I don't think bi-national is not a problem at all for Krakow 'cause it is allowed by IOC.The distance 200km is almost as same as Beijing-Jinag Jia Kou.

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There is no immigration procedure at the border as both countries are in the Schengen area of free movement. Once you are in there is free movement without checks.

500px-Schengen_Area.svg.png

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@markun. Thanks for the map. Very convenient system for tourists. No other of countries in other continents can do like this. ;)

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I don't think bi-national is not a problem at all for Krakow 'cause it is allowed by IOC.The distance 200km is almost as same as Beijing-Jinag Jia Kou.

Stockholm to Are: 328 miles

Beijing to Zhangjiakow: 127 miles

Oslo to Lillehammer: 114 miles

Krakow to Jasna: 109 miles

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^What are you basing that on? Simply bcuz they would "offer" the closest setting to the Alpine venues. That alone is not nearly enough to get an Olympic Games. Almaty, like Lviv, is a non-starter with no real compelling arguments to get the nod whatsoever.

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I don't think almaty is being played down as much as some are over playing it. You said the same things about Baku & Doha as well for 2020, & yet at the same time, also weren't convinced with Istanbul's potential, so what makes Almaty so different. What you're citing are some technical attributes that they may have, which those too are being quite overblown. Yeah, they hosted the 2011 Asian Winter Games, but they co-hosted those with Astana at a distance of over 600 miles, almost twice as far as Stockholm/Are. Like some people are still not convined over South Africa's hosting of the 2010 FIFA World Cup, I'm also still not convinced over Almaty's small sporting resume.

Again, what's so compelling about Almaty besides the same ole "well, they hosted some events & are 'more compact' [which really isn't a big selling point, as prior bids making a huge selling point on that one angle have mostly failed]. The narrative needs to have much more than that. And I wouldn't call withdrawing from the 2002 race & not making the 2014 short-list as "prior bidding experience", either. Besides, that doesn't mean much anyway I.E. Madrid, Paris, Ostersund, Sion, Detriot & Istanbul have shown.

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I said Doha had potential yes but they really didn't have a chance against Tokyo in the end.

Madrid- suffered horribly during the GFC

Sion-screwed over by the IOC following SLC corruption

Detroit- that was back in the 40's, 50's and 60's.

Istanbul- governmental protests, Euro 2020.

I'm also not saying that Almaty has it in the bag and is the favorite which is also shown in the poll in this thread.

I'm not seeing anything exceptionally special about any of the cities. All have there downfalls some large than others, just not quite so sure why you think a bi-national bid could beat Almaty for the shortlist.

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The difference is that you were convinced that Doha would make the short-list, regardless if they stood a chance or not against Tokyo, simply cuz the Qatari's had buckets load of cash to throw at the Games. Yet in the end, they were shoved to the wayside. I see no difference here with Almaty. I'm not saying that your claiming that Almaty has it in the bag or that they'd be a favorite. The real crux of the matter here is whether they have what it takes to make it to candidate stage. But like Baku & Doha, I don't believe that they do.

And yes, while all 2022 applicants have their downfalls, like 2020, it's gonna come down again as to which downfall the IOC would rather deal with. And while Madrid, Sion & Istanbul all had their issues, they were at least finalists. Something that I don't see Almaty getting to. Especially with all the controversy surrounding Sochi 2014 & all the protests in the Ukraine right now, & already having two new-frontier Winter Olympics & back-to-back Asian Olympics for the first time ever, & top IOC brass being disappointed with Munich & St Moritz exits, all indicators seem to indicate that the IOC would like to finally return to a tried & traditional winter location for 2022.

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The difference is that you were convinced that Doha would make the short-list, regardless if they stood a chance or not against Tokyo, simply cuz the Qatari's had buckets load of cash to throw at the Games. Yet in the end, they were shoved to the wayside. I see no difference here with Almaty. I'm not saying that your claiming that Almaty has it in the bag or that they'd be a favorite. The real crux of the matter here is whether they have what it takes to make it to candidate stage. But like Baku & Doha, I don't believe that they do.

And yes, while all 2022 applicants have their downfalls, like 2020, it's gonna come down again as to which downfall the IOC would rather deal with. And while Madrid, Sion & Istanbul all had their issues, they were at least finalists. Something that I don't see Almaty getting to. Especially with all the controversy surrounding Sochi 2014 & all the protests in the Ukraine right now, & already having two new-frontier Winter Olympics & back-to-back Asian Olympics for the first time ever, & top IOC brass being disappointed with Munich & St Moritz exits, all indicators seem to indicate that the IOC would like to finally return to a tried & traditional winter location for 2022.

Yes, I was convinced they would make the shortlist. In 2016 they were ranked higher then the eventual winner Rio.

I understand what your saying however you think "a tried and traditional winter location" is a never before seen bi-national host cities/countries?

I understand Oslo. I am iffy about Beijing especially after the fog issues however I would find it unlikely for the IOC to deny China, Harbin was applying only 2 years after Beijing had won.

It's just the bi-national I struggled. The IOC has always said no to bi-national bids so i just don't get why they would not only backflip to the idea but put them through to candidate stage

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however you think "a tried and traditional winter location" is a never before seen bi-national host cities/countries?

No, I don't. Tried & traditional only boils down to Oslo & Stockholm in this race. I've never indicated that Krakow leads the pack in that regard. The one that's gung-ho about Krakow is Baron, not me. Although, I could see Krakow becoming a dark horse in this race, regardless of its "bi-national" proposal. It just depends how much is going to be proposed on the Slovak side. Let's not forget that Salzburg 2010 & 2014 were also, technically, bi-national bids, too. With one event proposed on the German side of the border. .

however I would find it unlikely for the IOC to deny China, Harbin was applying only 2 years after Beijing had won.

Agreed here. This is another reason why I don't see Almaty on the short-list. I can't see the IOC having both Asian applicants there when there's already back-to-back Asian Olympics on the agenda. So no need to maybe make it three.

It's just the bi-national I struggled. The IOC has always said no to bi-national bids so i just don't get why they would not only backflip to the idea but put them through to candidate stage

Yeah, but that was for far-fetched bi-national attempts like Helsinki 2006 proposing Alpine all the way in fricken Norway, over 600 miles away. Krakow to Jasna is only a fraction of the distance at only 109 miles, where both countries are also part of the European Union. So getting back & forth shouldn't be too difficult (especially if it's only one or two events) versus say if it was Poland & the Ukraine, like some of the preliminary talks were.

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I don't think almaty is being played down as much as some are over playing it. You said the same things about Baku & Doha as well for 2020, & yet at the same time, also weren't convinced with Istanbul's potential, so what makes Almaty so different. What you're citing are some technical attributes that they may have, which those too are being quite overblown. Yeah, they hosted the 2011 Asian Winter Games, but they co-hosted those with Astana at a distance of over 600 miles, almost twice as far as Stockholm/Are. Like some people are still not convined over South Africa's hosting of the 2010 FIFA World Cup, I'm also still not convinced over Almaty's small sporting resume.

Again, what's so compelling about Almaty besides the same ole "well, they hosted some events & are 'more compact' [which really isn't a big selling point, as prior bids making a huge selling point on that one angle have mostly failed]. The narrative needs to have much more than that. And I wouldn't call withdrawing from the 2002 race & not making the 2014 short-list as "prior bidding experience", either. Besides, that doesn't mean much anyway I.E. Madrid, Paris, Ostersund, Sion, Detriot & Istanbul have shown.

Almaty is hosting the 2017 Universiade, which would add to the sporting events held in Kazakhstan and Almaty. They chose in the end to co-host with Astana for the 2011 Asian Games as a way to help bring infrastructure to that city as well.

I'm certain Almaty would have a spot in the shortlist. It won't necessarily win though, no matter how compact the bid is and the wealth of existing venues (needing only to build the sliding track and 1 major arena (with perhaps another minor one)).

I know the comment(s) was not directed at me, but I for one did not support Istanbul simply because of the sloppiness of their bid. The slight unprofessional approach (like unveiling the bid logo the same week it could have been eliminated from the shortlist) and more importantly the crazy idea of building a dedicated ceremonies white elephant (that although it was in a symbolic location) was in a terrible location transport wise.

If Poland simply proposes to use Jasna for say Men's Downhill events only, then I can see them making the shortlist if they have a doable plan. The IOC has never really said no, they just use that technicality to deny bidding cities from making the next round (as was the case for Helsinki).

And yes, I still think if the IOC is going to deny Stockholm, it will be over the distance issue, otherwise it will go through because it's Sweden and never hosted before. It will simply be a sign of the IOC's desperation over a Swedish Winter Olympics.

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Agreed here. This is another reason why I don't see Almaty on the short-list. I can't see the IOC having both Asian applicants there when there's already back-to-back Asian Olympics on the agenda. So no need to maybe make it three.

Good point. I find it ridiculous for a city to make a shortlist for a winter Olympics 14 years after hosting the winter Olympics.

Do you think that they would make the shortlist if it wasn't because Beijing is in China?

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Almaty is hosting the 2017 Universiade, which would add to the sporting events held in Kazakhstan and Almaty.

The 2022 Winter Olympics are gonna be awarded in 2015, though. Two years before we see how the Kazahks actually do with the 2017 Univeriade. Which even then, still wouldn't be a very impressive hosting experience resume.

They chose in the end to co-host with Astana for the 2011 Asian Games as a way to help bring infrastructure to that city as well.

Doesn't matter why they did it. The fact is, that they did. Some of you are always griping about the distance issue with Stockholm/Are, yet Almaty/Astana did it with a distance of almost twice as far. They faced those same challenges that get thrown at Stockholm/Are. Albeit, at a smaller scale, but the same issue nontheless. And the Winter Asian Games were never split like that beforehand, either. And the next host in 2017 in Sapporo, isn't as well.

I'm certain Almaty would have a spot in the shortlist. It won't necessarily win though, no matter how compact the bid is and the wealth of existing venues (needing only to build the sliding track and 1 major arena (with perhaps another minor one)).

Well, if "it won't necessarily win, though" then what's the point of having them on there, especially when the field has better options to pick from for the short-list. This is what you also said about Baku 2020, & we know how that one turned out.

I know the comment(s) was not directed at me, but I for one did not support Istanbul simply because of the sloppiness of their bid. The slight unprofessional approach (like unveiling the bid logo the same week it could have been eliminated from the shortlist) and more importantly the crazy idea of building a dedicated ceremonies white elephant (that although it was in a symbolic location) was in a terrible location transport wise.

And yet despite some of these shortcomings, Istanbul 2020 made the short-list, while the "flashier" Baku bid fell flat. So Rols is right when he said in the Berlin SOG's thread last night that there's no arguing with you, & all that matters is a "bling-bling" bid book & you're foaming at the mouth. You need to learn not to simply judge a "bid" book by it's cover when there could be so much more to offer that's not always present by silly bid logos & flashy covers. Luckily, the IOC can look past such superficiality.

If Poland simply proposes to use Jasna for say Men's Downhill events only, then I can see them making the shortlist if they have a doable plan.

Well, they might propose that.

And yes, I still think if the IOC is going to deny Stockholm, it will be over the distance issue, otherwise it will go through because it's Sweden and never hosted before. It will simply be a sign of the IOC's desperation over a Swedish Winter Olympics.

A "desperation" over a Swedish Winter Olympics? You mean like they were desperate for a Chinese Olympics, & a South American Olympics, & a Russian Winter Olympics, & a South Korean Winter Olympics. Right, got it. ;):P

Good point. I find it ridiculous for a city to make a shortlist for a winter Olympics 14 years after hosting the winter Olympics.

Do you think that they would make the shortlist if it wasn't because Beijing is in China?

Yes, Beijing will be in for 2022 bcuz it's the Chinese. Much like Moscow 2012 was in bcuz it was the Russians, at the expense of Rio & Istanbul. Strong geopolitics always prevail.

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The shortlist is really about whittling down the 'long' list. It is easier (and more logical) to do it on technical ability than anything else.

To my knowledge, no host city has ever made an attempt to bid for the following Olympics. But I'm sure the IOC could tell them 'no thanks' or at least 'why don't you focus on what you've got going on there now" and that would end it.

Unless of course they were the only city interested. But that's another situation all together.

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In theory, the short-list is suppose to be about "technical ability". But like the last post mentioned, it's really about trimming down a longer & tedious list. Had PyeongChang applied for 2022, that would've meant they wouldn't have won 2018, & 2022 would be good chances for Asia & we wouldn't have this Asian conumdrum now in the first place.

If it was really just based on technical ability, both Rio & Istanbul wouldn't have leap-frogged Doha for 2016 & 2020 respectively when the Qatari's scored higher than the Brazilians & the Turks. If it was really just about technical ability, Istanbul should've been on the 2012 short-list along with the other five cities, including Moscow, when Istanbul was on the 2008 short-list, so what made them get cut four years later when they were good enough just four years prior.

If it was truly just about technical ability, then Annecy 2018 should've been cut from the get-go, but bcuz only three cities applied for 2018, the IOC gave the French Winter bid a warning, & told them that they needed to improve their weak concept but were still included to compete nontheless. Had the 2018 been a packed field, with more credible options, Annecy 2018 would've been ditched from the start. Like with everything else, the IOC makes exceptions whenever they see fit. I see the short-list now as being no different when it comes to that.

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You still quote the Almaty/Astana distance as a good comparison. It was the Asian Games, which is a lesser event. That's why Almaty is going alone for the Universiade and their Olympic bid.

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So it's okay for you to quote the "lesser event" Asian Winter Games when it comes to bolster about them, but it's not okay to bring up that same "lesser" event when they in fact co-hosted those lesser games with another city clear across the country. Okay, got you.

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It is ok to bring up said "lesser" event when it comes to Almaty co-hosting with Astana. It's ok for them to have such an event spread apart to benefit the country. They know that such a concept will not work for an Olympics, so it's Almaty on it's own.

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Had the 2018 race been packed and included Almaty, I think Annecy would have made it through (assuming no other credible bids, otherwise it would have been scrapped too), despite a possibly as strong or stronger Almaty bid mostly due to the efforts of the French Olympic Committee in going through the trouble of selecting their candidate in a domestic bid race, whereas Almaty only needed to be nominated by the Kazakh government.

Not to mention the Kazakhs would have had a strong benefit of promoting their bid during the 2011 Asian Games or give the IOC some impression if they were a Candidate in the lead up to September.

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I see only 3 cities making the short list for 2022 they are Beijing China, Almaty Kazakhstan and Oslo Norway, Ukraine is not ready the IOC wont go for joints bids with a far distance it's not like with Austria 2010 and 2014 bids there the only events in another country which planned to be held was in a already built sliding track for sliding events in Germany 25km away from Salzburg, I don't see the IOC picking the Sweden bid due to the ridiculous distance between Are and Stockholm Oslo Norway is closer to Stockholm then Are is .

So that will leave Oslo Norway, Beijing China and Almaty Kazakhstan fighting it out to the end.

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I don't only see the IOC not picking Stockholm based solely on the distance issue. It's their proposed venues in Stockholm itself which might not be enough to put them over the line. That crazy 4 site biathlon/cross country venue plan (which has the historic Olympic Stadium as part of it) and the idea of artificially heightening a mountain for Slalom events. I guess we'll have to see if they decide to modify their current plan to make it more achievable.

Edited by Lord David

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If there's only three cities on the 2022 short-list, two out of the three are NOT going to be from Asia. Not when we have first-time ever back-to-back Asian Olympics (not to mention other variables that would favor traditional Winter European hosts). The IOC will want to go somewhere else. So I don't see three consecutive Asian Games, unless the IOC has absolutely no other choice in the matter. But that's not the case here. So if three, then it's Stockholm, Oslo & Beijing. If four, then add Krakow to the mix as a dark horse.

And LD, to quote you; "I'm 'certain' Stockholm would have a spot on the short-list. It won't necessarily win, though, no matter how compelling the bid is & the wealth of existing infrastructure & tradition". :-P

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