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breathesgelatin

Lviv 2022

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Why are people so sure Beijing will do a respectable job of holding the actual events? How many ski jumping events have they hosted? Bobsledding? Downhills? Hockey touraments?

They'll get lots of help and probably do a bang up job. But so would anyone else. Why should we have more confidence in them than in anyone else?

Because they have a very strong central government that would be willing to do whatever it takes to get the job done, just as we saw last time with the summer games.

Beijing would be OK for the athletes and hell for the fans.

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Poland is too close to the conflict and a joint country bid is unstable who knows Slovakia could be the next Ukraine.

I don't wish to be rude but a lot of rubbish is spoken on these forums and that is a wonderful example of complete nonsense, nothing could be further from the truth.

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I never said China was a safe option for the 2008 Summer Olympics, anyway we are talking about now. Also, China has proven that the Olympics didn't teach them any lessons on how to improve the situations they are in. The smog is still bad, and as many have claimed, is far WORSE in the winter, they are still in conflict with Hong Kong, Macau, Taiwan, Tibet and Japan, and they STILL have poor human rights records. So, I was just asking GCL how he thinks Beijing would be a 'safe choice', and what his personal definition is of safe. China is on the same level as Russia when it comes to political issues, Russia and China both have poor human rights records, and they both have major political tension with a number of Countries and States. So, to answer your question, it's no different to the 2008 Summer Olympics from what I can see, if anything, it's worse now, because smog is worse in the winter, and they haven't learned any lessons from the 2008 Summer Olympics. It was China's fault that the Olympic Torch Relay is not Worldwide, and it's just in the Host Country and Greece now. It's China's fault there was so much disruption in the 2008 Summer Olympic Torch Relay. It's China that's stopping Chinese Taipei competing as Taiwan, and why Tibet can't be independent. Russia and China are so similar in such many ways. Yes, they get the job done, and yes they host successful Games, in the end, but at what cost? Affecting peoples lives, affecting land and the environment.

And I didn't say that's what you said. All I'm saying is how different are all those issues now than they were then. I'm not saying that they'll win, or saying that they're the best option in the "safest" sense. But from a financial & delivery standpoint, they'd definitely be a safe choice. The IOC wouldn't have to worry about them delivering the goods on time. Afterall, the IOC had to tell the Chinese to "slow down" on their preperations of the 2008 Summer Olympics.

That's where I say that some on here seriously underestimate the value of what that could mean to the IOC, especially when the real good, compelling choices are literally running the other way. If Oslo also folds, I wouldn't write-off the Chinese so quickly by saying then it's Krakow's or Almaty's to lose, since those bids still aren't necessarily that convincing & have their own issues, especially Almaty. I'd say then it literally becomes anyone's 2022 Game. Oslo is truly the only no-brainer right now as long as they're in.

And no, it's not Chinese's "fault" that the Torch Relay is not worldwide. Only Athens 2004 had done that previously mainly due bcuz the Olympics was coming "home". And if it was still around, certainly Sochi 2014 would've had its own chaotic, worldwide run. Certainly even Western nations, like the U.S. & the U.K. would've had similar torch relay disruptions, if theirs were worldwide. It's too political too have it worldwide, & that's why it was never really practiced.

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I never said China was a safe option for the 2008 Summer Olympics, anyway we are talking about now. Also, China has proven that the Olympics didn't teach them any lessons on how to improve the situations they are in. The smog is still bad, and as many have claimed, is far WORSE in the winter, they are still in conflict with Hong Kong, Macau, Taiwan, Tibet and Japan, and they STILL have poor human rights records. So, I was just asking GCL how he thinks Beijing would be a 'safe choice', and what his personal definition is of safe. China is on the same level as Russia when it comes to political issues, Russia and China both have poor human rights records, and they both have major political tension with a number of Countries and States. So, to answer your question, it's no different to the 2008 Summer Olympics from what I can see, if anything, it's worse now, because smog is worse in the winter, and they haven't learned any lessons from the 2008 Summer Olympics. It was China's fault that the Olympic Torch Relay is not Worldwide, and it's just in the Host Country and Greece now. It's China's fault there was so much disruption in the 2008 Summer Olympic Torch Relay. It's China that's stopping Chinese Taipei competing as Taiwan, and why Tibet can't be independent. Russia and China are so similar in such many ways. Yes, they get the job done, and yes they host successful Games, in the end, but at what cost? Affecting peoples lives, affecting land and the environment.

First, FYI is right. The Torch Relay wasn't exactly GLOBAL -With all the meaning of the word- until Athens. Even Sydney and Atlanta made similar patrons like Beijing. Also, it's seriously difficult to make a torch relay of these characteristics, because it means a nightmare in logistics and the political implications are still relevant -Just ask the Sochi torch relay-. It's irrational to blame the Chinese for something they didn't do.

Yes, China has issues with neighbours, but it's not exactly the only country with serial problems of the region. South Korea is on edge of war with North Korea since 1953 and still they have the nuclear shadow. Japan isn't exactly the good sister either with recent territorial conflicts and allegations of historical revisionism -History books- and still both countries will have the Olympics. And don't start with the issues related to minorities.

Third, the term Chinese Taipei was actually a common agreement among both countries, and was related to the ambiguous political status of Taiwan, and that's wasn't ONLY for China, but also an implication for many countries including the "Western" (And yes, your dear England is also involved) who adopted "One China" policy. If you want to blame countries, start with UK who voted in FAVOR of the People's Republic of China in 1971. And for the Tibet, it's a long and more complex aspect to deliver.

Finally, for tenth time, the Olympics are just a nice sportif spectacle in two weeks, but seriously, they won't change the lives of people. Like FYI said, Beijing is a safe bet in a rational way for three areas: a. Financial; b. Logistics and c. Organization/Legacy.

I know China record, but sometimes, these options are more rational that good wishes.

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Poland and Slovakia are both part of the European Union, you can hardly do more stable than that.

The European Union is becoming unstable you know the EU is collapsing the majority of the countries is coming worse it will be like what happen in Eastern Europe in the late 1980s ans 1990s, Europe is on the brink of an civil war there is a big protest movements in Europe now which could turn into a civil war Nationalist vs Globalist EU supporters in fact Ukraine could be on a bigger impact for EU countries The European Union is very well like the Soviet Union.

And I didn't say that's what you said. All I'm saying is how different are all those issues now than they were then. I'm not saying that they'll win, or saying that they're the best option in the "safest" sense. But from a financial & delivery standpoint, they'd definitely be a safe choice. The IOC wouldn't have to worry about them delivering the goods on time. Afterall, the IOC had to tell the Chinese to "slow down" on their preperations of the 2008 Summer Olympics.

That what I mean by safe financial, delivery and they are reliable are all very important things for the IOC China economy will be doubled it sizes by 2022 they will just have to convert the venues to host the ICE events which will be easy to do which will take at least a couple of months max, China is proven that they can host great events they hosted the Summer Olympics and Paralympics Games, World Expo, 2 Asian Games and 2 University Games greatly in 4 years 2007-2011 they are very reliable and delivered great games as well.

Most of the cost for the Chinese winter games will be in building up Zhangiakou building the venues for the snow events and building up the city and they bullet train system from Beijing to Zhangiakou is already under way and will be finish by late 2017 which will only be a 40 min train ride China is the only top 5 economies of the world which never hosted an winter games too and in an event that Oslo Norway pulls out then Beijing China and Almaty Kazakhstan are the only safe choices for the 2022 winter games and who cares it will be 3 in a row for Asia Europe did back in 1992, 1992 and 1994.

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The European Union is becoming unstable you know the EU is collapsing the majority of the countries is coming worse it will be like what happen in Eastern Europe in the late 1980s ans 1990s, Europe is on the brink of an civil war there is a big protest movements in Europe now which could turn into a civil war Nationalist vs Globalist EU supporters in fact Ukraine could be on a bigger impact for EU countries The European Union is very well like the Soviet Union.

Uh, no.

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This surely can't be any good for Lviv 2022 - EU foreign ministers have agreed to move ahead with imposing sanctions including visa bans and asset freezes on those responsible for the violence in Ukraine, Italian Foreign Minister Emma Bonino has confirmed. "The decision is to proceed very rapidly, in the next hours, to a visa ban and asset freeze on those who have committed the violence," she said. - Source: BBC News - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26269221

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The Lviv bid was chanceless from the start, even without the violence, so in that sense, the sad events right now don't make a difference anymore.

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Yep, they should. However which way Ukraine will go (and I believe that they will choose the west), they need a solid economic reforms. Ukraine is on the verge of an economic crisis and from the beginning it was known that the attempt to organize the Olympic Games is only the result of politicians populism.


On the other hand, the IOC is somewhat responsible for this situation. Russia once again felt a superpower that can pull the strings rest of the countries of the region and the Bach bow to Putin at the same time criticizing Western countries. IOC should be careful with such directions as Kazakhstan. This is a similar case. Who can be sure that in the next eight years there will not explode civil conflict between pro-Russian and pro-European population.


I keep my fingers crossed for Ukraine and listen for informations. Here in Poland it is particularly painful. 33 years ago we had a state of war, and dozens of people were killed fighting for the freedom of the country I can use today and I can be proud of.

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^^ Uh, it will be the decision of the members of the IOC in the end which city will be chosen, not Bach. And even if it was up to Bach, he already shown he has some preference for Oslo anyway :P .

Anyway, I guess that with the ousting of Yakunovich today and Tymoshenko fred from jail (which will very likely become president again in the upcoming elections) the situation in Ukraine will calm down. Even though, the protests caused them a lot of damage, both in infrastructure and in image to the rest of the world.

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Tymoshenko fred from jail (which will very likely become president again in the upcoming elections)

Probably its not the best place for politics issue, but she was welcomed rather cold by people on Maidan. She isnt as popular on Ukraine as its covered in western mass media. Im pretty sure she's not able to win elections.

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No matter who will be the next President, the Lviv bid is dead. Ukraine really has other worries now, and lack of trust by the IOC is not the most important one.

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Probably its not the best place for politics issue, but she was welcomed rather cold by people on Maidan. She isnt as popular on Ukraine as its covered in western mass media. Im pretty sure she's not able to win elections.

Yes, Yuiia Timoshenko isn't exactly known as a woman of dialogue, otherwise she's defined as a clear Lady Macbeth -Manipulative, populist, cold and vindictive- who was one of the key actors blamed for the failure of the "Orange Revolution" with many critics -Even from the Western press-. Actually, with Timoshenko on elections, we can have a new fragmentation among the oppositors of the Ukrainian regime.

I'm more worried that Ukraine won't split in two states that this dead bid.

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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/02/27/kerry-says-us-planning-to-provide-ukraine/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/posttv/business/armed-men-seize-crimean-government-buidlings/2014/02/27/8a1877c4-9fc4-11e3-878c-65222df220eb_video.html

Russia is now at war with the Ukraine this is not looking good for Ukraine and will have a bad impact to Poland due to being so close to this if Norway pulls out then the IOC have no choice but go to either Beijing China or Almaty Kazakhstan things are becoming ugly in Eastern Europe.

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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/02/27/kerry-says-us-planning-to-provide-ukraine/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/posttv/business/armed-men-seize-crimean-government-buidlings/2014/02/27/8a1877c4-9fc4-11e3-878c-65222df220eb_video.html

Russia is now at war with the Ukraine this is not looking good for Ukraine and will have a bad impact to Poland due to being so close to this if Norway pulls out then the IOC have no choice but go to either Beijing China or Almaty Kazakhstan things are becoming ugly in Eastern Europe.

Kazakhstan is near there as well. Poland has nothing to do with the Ukraine crisis.

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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/02/27/kerry-says-us-planning-to-provide-ukraine/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/posttv/business/armed-men-seize-crimean-government-buidlings/2014/02/27/8a1877c4-9fc4-11e3-878c-65222df220eb_video.html

Russia is now at war with the Ukraine this is not looking good for Ukraine and will have a bad impact to Poland due to being so close to this if Norway pulls out then the IOC have no choice but go to either Beijing China or Almaty Kazakhstan things are becoming ugly in Eastern Europe.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/02/27/kerry-says-us-planning-to-provide-ukraine/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/posttv/business/armed-men-seize-crimean-government-buidlings/2014/02/27/8a1877c4-9fc4-11e3-878c-65222df220eb_video.html

Russia is now at war with the Ukraine this is not looking good for Ukraine and will have a bad impact to Poland due to being so close to this if Norway pulls out then the IOC have no choice but go to either Beijing China or Almaty Kazakhstan things are becoming ugly in Eastern Europe.

There no signs of anything going to happen on Polish bourder, only hot spot there is no Russian border and it's still not sure if anything going to happen

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There no signs of anything going to happen on Polish bourder, only hot spot there is no Russian border and it's still not sure if anything going to happen

Thank You. Just to point out, Russia has taken over some Ukrainian airports, according to reports in the media. Here's all the latest news. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26380336 - Also, like I stated, Kazakhstan's Almaty Bid would be affected as well if Poland's was. GCL, your believing a conspiracy theory. There is no evidence suggesting any harm on Poland, so Poland won't be affected. It's like saying, China has bad pollution levels, so if Taiwan Bid, that would disrupt there Bid. That's not the case. The main countries involved in the Ukraine crisis is mainly Ukraine and also Russia. Poland has nothing to do with it. Also, I believe Krakow won't win, not because of this, (as I stated, Poland has nothing to do with the crisis), but because Oslo is a more stable and safer choice IMO.

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Almaty Kazakhstan is thousands of km away from the the area of the crisis while Krakow Poland is next door to it a couple of hours away from the ugly stuff what is going on in that area could turn into a war, So the IOC have 2 safe places Beijing China and Almaty Kazakhstan and it is very likely that Oslo Norway will pull out of the race.

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Russia is now at war with the Ukraine this is not looking good for Ukraine and will have a bad impact to Poland due to being so close to this if Norway pulls out then the IOC have no choice but go to either Beijing China or Almaty Kazakhstan things are becoming ugly in Eastern Europe.
Kazakhstan is near there as well. Poland has nothing to do with the Ukraine crisis.

No offence mates, but sentences like those make me sure people over the Atlantic Ocean dont know anything about geopolitic of Europe. Dont know in which way US media are covering those conflict but what you write here is so far from the point.

Fistly, no signs of any war between Russia and Ukraine. Its closer to describe it as an internal conflict between Ukrainians based on fact that half of them are pro-western, and half of them pro-russian. Off course, Russia is pouring oil on the fire, still there is no war!

Secondly Poland and Kazakhstan are neighbour of Russia as well as China PR and USA (Bering See). And Almaty is located 4500 km from Kiev.

Thirdly, actually Poland is probably the most involved in this conflict country from EU. Last week polish Minister of Foreign Affairs was the head of the peace negotiations in Kiev. Relations between Warsaw and Moscow are so tight too. Polish foreign affairs doctrine sice 90s is focused on support pro-western actions in Ukraine and Belarus what anger Russia. Even Polish public broadcaster is broadcasting a free TV channel on the area of Belarus from the Belarusian-Polish border

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No offence mates, but sentences like those make me sure people over the Atlantic Ocean dont know anything about geopolitic of Europe. Dont know in which way US media are covering those conflict but what you write here is so far from the point.

Fistly, no signs of any war between Russia and Ukraine. Its closer to describe it as an internal conflict between Ukrainians based on fact that half of them are pro-western, and half of them pro-russian. Off course, Russia is pouring oil on the fire, still there is no war!

Secondly Poland and Kazakhstan are neighbour of Russia as well as China PR and USA (Bering See). And Almaty is located 4500 km from Kiev.

Thirdly, actually Poland is probably the most involved in this conflict country from EU. Last week polish Minister of Foreign Affairs was the head of the peace negotiations in Kiev. Relations between Warsaw and Moscow are so tight too. Polish foreign affairs doctrine sice 90s is focused on support pro-western actions in Ukraine and Belarus what anger Russia. Even Polish public broadcaster is broadcasting a free TV channel on the area of Belarus from the Belarusian-Polish border

I'm not American, I'm English, so that doesn't apply to me.

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