zekekelso Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 No offence mates, but sentences like those make me sure people over the Atlantic Ocean dont know anything about geopolitic of Europe. We divide the world into "here" and "there". Poland, the Ukraine, Sometehingorotherstan.... it's all lumped into "there". When we get things like the Slovakia vs Slovenia hockey game... you don't honestly expect us to know which is which, do you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony E Loves Architecture Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 I still don't understand his point towards me. I don't listen to Us Media, because I'm English, NOT American. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Coast Lions Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 I am an Australian who research things and the way that Eastern Europe is going I doubt there will be another games for an very long time in Eastern Europe there is about to be a war in Europe like in the 1990s but on a bigger scale the Eurozone is no better as well there is a deep divide which is happening in the Euro Zone could could bring out a civil war which is very likely now Ukraine could very well start it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petrpetr Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 I'm not American, I'm English, so that doesn't apply to me. As I mentioned, no offence, but you should know Almaty is far from Ukraine. Its similiar distance with this one between Boston and London. Also as a member of EU, you should know that Poland, France and Germany are trying to solve Ukrainian issue. Its all about distance. From long distance we are losing focus. We dont see all the nuances and details. From far away it seems that there is a war between Russia and Ukraine, but if you live here in central Europe you see that this is internal conflict in Ukraine about choosing of direction. Western Ukraine want to live in western - EU way, but eastern, mostly russian speaking, want to be strongly connected with Russia. Its just a problem of young democracy that they are not able to sit together and talk about their proporsals and fears, but they came on the streets. The fact that Russia still claims the right to control other countries like Ukraine, Belarus or even Latvia and Estonia dont help here. And there is a blame on IOC too, and Bach praising Putin and Russia three weeks ago and choosing Sochi. Russia should let Ukrainians solve their problems alone, but it would probably finish with Ukraine going closer to NATO and EU, this is unacceptable for Russians. Its important to mention that this Ukrainian conflict is closer to ours than we think. In western Europe it could be about accpting or banning imigrants, in US its about military activity by USA. The difference is that there is no exterrior country interfering in our affairs, and we still can talk with our opponents, there is no need to go to the streets ad fight for freedom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanMUC Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 I am an Australian who research things and the way that Eastern Europe is going I doubt there will be another games for an very long time in Eastern Europe there is about to be a war in Europe like in the 1990s but on a bigger scale the Eurozone is no better as well there is a deep divide which is happening in the Euro Zone could could bring out a civil war which is very likely now Ukraine could very well start it. Good to know that people in Australia have a clearer picture of this than the next door Polish forum members... GCL, we know you're all about Asia as the future, but you obviously have no clue about what's going on in Europe. This is far less black and white than you make it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grep Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 I am an Australian who research things and the way that Eastern Europe is going I doubt there will be another games for an very long time in Eastern Europe there is about to be a war in Europe like in the 1990s but on a bigger scale the Eurozone is no better as well there is a deep divide which is happening in the Euro Zone could could bring out a civil war which is very likely now Ukraine could very well start it. Let him write. That made my day "research" lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony E Loves Architecture Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 As I mentioned, no offence, but you should know Almaty is far from Ukraine. Its similiar distance with this one between Boston and London. Also as a member of EU, you should know that Poland, France and Germany are trying to solve Ukrainian issue. Its all about distance. From long distance we are losing focus. We dont see all the nuances and details. From far away it seems that there is a war between Russia and Ukraine, but if you live here in central Europe you see that this is internal conflict in Ukraine about choosing of direction. Western Ukraine want to live in western - EU way, but eastern, mostly russian speaking, want to be strongly connected with Russia. Its just a problem of young democracy that they are not able to sit together and talk about their proporsals and fears, but they came on the streets. The fact that Russia still claims the right to control other countries like Ukraine, Belarus or even Latvia and Estonia dont help here. And there is a blame on IOC too, and Bach praising Putin and Russia three weeks ago and choosing Sochi. Russia should let Ukrainians solve their problems alone, but it would probably finish with Ukraine going closer to NATO and EU, this is unacceptable for Russians. Its important to mention that this Ukrainian conflict is closer to ours than we think. In western Europe it could be about accpting or banning imigrants, in US its about military activity by USA. The difference is that there is no exterrior country interfering in our affairs, and we still can talk with our opponents, there is no need to go to the streets ad fight for freedom. I wasn't judging Kazakhstan on the distance, I was basing it that Kazakhstan was part of the Soviet Union, so in similar ways, they are in the same kind of issue as Ukraine is with Kazakhstan, just the media lash on about Ukraine's problems, and Kazakhstan aren't currently in the middle of a riot. Poland is near Russia. Russia owned Kazakhstan at one point (The Soviet Era), with Poland it's distance, Kazakhstan is past ownership. As I say, these Ukraine riots will only affect the Lviv Bid as far as I'm concerned. Until riots break out in Kazakhstan or Poland, they are fine at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grep Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 Norway borders Russia too. You forgot about possible riots in Oslo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 Good old Vladi couldn't even wait until the cauldron was cold or that the Paralympians had had their party in Sochi. Of course, nobody, not even the UN, really cares about the IPC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 I also want to point out that Sochi been picked regardless of very known Chechenya rebels issues in region The Syrian conflict (along with the Turkish protests) did gauge in to undermine Istanbul's 2020 bid, though. Sochi is in mother Russia, where a very powerful dictator resides (who was/is much in control) & where he would've pulled all the stops to make it happen, which he did. These things have to be looked at on a case-by-case basis, & not all of them are that black-&-white. *(who was/is 'very' much in control). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowriver Posted March 1, 2014 Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 The Syrian conflict (along with the Turkish protests) did gauge in to undermine Istanbul's 2020 bid, though. Sochi is in mother Russia, where a very powerful dictator resides (who was/is much in control) & where he would've pulled all the stops to make it happen, which he did. These things have to be looked at on a case-by-case basis, & not all of them are that black-&-white. *(who was/is 'very' much in control). I'm really talking here about Poland, Lviv probably won't even able to run a bid with country in such state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petrpetr Posted March 1, 2014 Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 Lviv probably won't even able to run a bid with country in such state. It would be strange cause Ukraine has just asked EU and USA for loan of 35 bln USD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted March 1, 2014 Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 Seriously, we can just dismiss this "bid" now. There's absolutely no point in it anymore. These 2022 applicants are literally dropping like flies now. Oh, the web the IOC has woven itself these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zekekelso Posted March 1, 2014 Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 Norway borders Russia too. You forgot about possible riots in Oslo It's pretty remarkable that Russia shares a border with all five applicant countries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Coast Lions Posted March 1, 2014 Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 Seriously, we can just dismiss this "bid" now. There's absolutely no point in it anymore. These 2022 applicants are literally dropping like flies now. Oh, the web the IOC has woven itself these days. The IOC has no choice now then to go to Almaty Kazakhstan or Beijing China for the 2022 winter games, The crisis in Ukraine will have a big impact on Poland and Oslo Norway is likely too pull out of the race it is clear that the people of Norway does not want it with a populist government of Norway will likely go what the people want, Things are not looking good at all it will be safe to stay out of Europe for an while now things are turning ugly in Eastern Europe and the European Union. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donutman88 Posted March 1, 2014 Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 The crisis in Ukraine will have a big impact on Poland I don't see how that will happen. Poland seems to be pretty happy about their govt and just because they share a border doesn't mean riots will ensue. I think this is perfect for Krakow actually. Lviv is obviously down the tube, I agree that Oslo won't be successful because of the high lack of public support, leaving what I believe to be Krakow, Almaty, and Beijing. I doubt the IOC will award Beijing and its winter smog a 3rd straight Asian Olympics, and between Almaty and Krakow, as much as I like to see the olympics go to new frontiers, I think the IOC will go with the "safest" option left in Krakow. Slovakia seems to be pretty much 100% on board with what the Poles want to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony E Loves Architecture Posted March 1, 2014 Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 The IOC has no choice now then to go to Almaty Kazakhstan or Beijing China for the 2022 winter games, The crisis in Ukraine will have a big impact on Poland and Oslo Norway is likely too pull out of the race it is clear that the people of Norway does not want it with a populist government of Norway will likely go what the people want, Things are not looking good at all it will be safe to stay out of Europe for an while now things are turning ugly in Eastern Europe and the European Union. Didn't you listen to the past 2 or so pages? Poland has no riots currently, so Krakow 2022 is not affected. UKRAINE is rioting, and RUSSIA is involved, no one else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob2012 Posted March 1, 2014 Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 GCL, we've just had an Olympic Games in SOCHI, barely a stone's throw away from places which suffer regular terrorist attacks and yet it went off fine with no security issues. This crisis will more or less kill Lviv 2022 because the IOC will want stable governance as a certainty, but how dare you try to use this to drag Poland's bid down! The Polish bid has its own problems, certainly, but Crimea isn't one of them. As I said, if we can have an Olympics in SOCHI with its security worries, we can have one in Krakow which is closer to Germany than Eastern Ukraine. I really do wish we had the dislike button back sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshi Posted March 1, 2014 Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 Exactly. The Olympic Park at Sochi is only a few miles from South Ossetia FFS. And from what I've seen, the trouble in Ukraine is in the east, Crimea, & Kiev rather than the bit near Poland, which in itself isn't really near Krakow. Oslo still strong favourite, but Krakow would be in that position if Norway chicken out IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony E Loves Architecture Posted March 1, 2014 Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 GCL, we've just had an Olympic Games in SOCHI, barely a stone's throw away from places which suffer regular terrorist attacks and yet it went off fine with no security issues. This crisis will more or less kill Lviv 2022 because the IOC will want stable governance as a certainty, but how dare you try to use this to drag Poland's bid down! The Polish bid has its own problems, certainly, but Crimea isn't one of them. As I said, if we can have an Olympics in SOCHI with its security worries, we can have one in Krakow which is closer to Germany than Eastern Ukraine. I really do wish we had the dislike button back sometimes. Thank You. I couldn't agree more with you Rob. As much as I am in support of the Oslo 2022 Bid, I agree it's unfair to try and downgrade Krakow's Bid and tie it with the Ukraine crisis. Also, as Yoshi stated, Sochi is quite near South Ossetia, which is disputed between Georgia and Russia. I have no idea why GCL would think that Krakow's Bid is affected, when Poland aren't involved in the crisis. All they have done is made 1 or 2 comments, but who hasn't? As far as I am concerned, Ukraine and Russia are the only countries involved in the Ukraine crisis. If according to GCL Poland is affected, then why won't the IAAF move the Indoor Athletics World Championships away from Sopot/Gdansk? Also, even though Kazakhstan is fairly distant from Russia in terms of distance, Kazakhstan were part of the Soviet Union, and are in the Eurasia area. So, if GCL believes Poland are affected, then why doesn't he believe Kazakhstan's Almaty 2022 is affected? Poland and Kazakhstan are not affected as far as I am concerned. The only Bid out of the 5 that are affected (regardless if the Ukrainian officials are going to be naive and believe differently) is Lviv 2022. Lots of countries are connected to Russia, through Politics or Geographical. They aren't all affected. Does that mean Tbilisi will lose the 2015 UEFA Super Cup? Will Poland lose World Indoor Athletics Championships? Will Kazakhstan lose the 2017 Winter Universiade? No. Because only Ukraine and Russia are affected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intoronto Posted March 1, 2014 Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 The stupidty of these boards is shocking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted March 1, 2014 Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 GCL, we've just had an Olympic Games in SOCHI, barely a stone's throw away from places which suffer regular terrorist attacks and yet it went off fine with no security issues. I really do wish we had the dislike button back sometimes. Some people abused it. And that's probably mostly why it's gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob2012 Posted March 1, 2014 Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zekekelso Posted March 1, 2014 Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 Not to mention the fact we are talking about an event eight years from now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowriver Posted March 1, 2014 Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 It would be strange cause Ukraine has just asked EU and USA for loan of 35 bln USD. I'm not talking about money, but state. Ukraine have more importent problems right now. Not to mention the fact we are talking about an event eight years from now. But decision need to be made in 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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