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Beijing/Zhangjiakou 2022


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When we visited the Ten Thousand Dragons ski resort something rare happened - it started to snow. Snow at ski resort, you might think, what a bizarre thing to say.

But one of the ski resort's managers told us it was only the second time it had snowed there this winter.

The region is bone dry. Almost all the snow on the slopes is artificially made. It begs the question: can you host a Winter Olympics without any real snow?

"It's not a problem," said the resort's ski manager, who would only give her name as Ms Liang.

"It's cold enough here. We'll just use artificial snow like in Sochi."

The slopes at the resort are also not long enough to host the men's downhill event.

Ms Liang admitted that China's bid team will need to find a higher mountain and build a whole new resort.

This is starting to look less and less like the "reliable" fallback policy that many have thought.

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Well, I think they are reliable in the sense that they would throw anything necessary into it to make it happen, no matter the price tag or environmental concerns.

I'm just not sure the IOC would really want to go down that route - as long as there's at least one of Oslo/Kraków left, Beijing should not have a serious chance.

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Well, I think they are reliable in the sense that they would throw anything necessary into it to make it happen, no matter the price tag or environmental concerns.

I'm just not sure the IOC would really want to go down that route - as long as there's at least one of Oslo/Kraków left, Beijing should not have a serious chance.

Exactly. China has a lot of problems, but it can solve them more easily than western countries. Unbelievably bad air pollution from coal plants could be fixed by simply cutting off heating and electricity for its people in February. The local food supply of questionable quality won't be a problem for athletes and concessions since they will be supplied with international ingredients. You can cover an artificial mountain with machine generated snow if money is no object and you don't care if the venues are white elephants. I have no idea how you would stop the sandstorms off the Gobi that hit in the winter, but I'm sure they'll find a way. The local people (and visitors who aren't at the venues or five star hotels) may suffer, but China will solve any problems it faces if it wins the bid.

I'm just sad about this because it makes it seem like I'm slamming China. But things were just as bad -if not worse- in western countries during the time when we were newly industrialized and burning coal. Let's not forget the numerous rivers that caught fire because they were so badly polluted, slavery and lynchings in the USA, fascism in Europe, "White Australia", etc. As the Chinese middle class grows it will democratize further; it's several decades behind the west right now, but it will get there.

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Exactly. China has a lot of problems, but it can solve them more easily than western countries. Unbelievably bad air pollution from coal plants could be fixed by simply cutting off heating and electricity for its people in February. The local food supply of questionable quality won't be a problem for athletes and concessions since they will be supplied with international ingredients. You can cover an artificial mountain with machine generated snow if money is no object and you don't care if the venues are white elephants. I have no idea how you would stop the sandstorms off the Gobi that hit in the winter, but I'm sure they'll find a way. The local people (and visitors who aren't at the venues or five star hotels) may suffer, but China will solve any problems it faces if it wins the bid.

I'm just sad about this because it makes it seem like I'm slamming China. But things were just as bad -if not worse- in western countries during the time when we were newly industrialized and burning coal. Let's not forget the numerous rivers that caught fire because they were so badly polluted, slavery and lynchings in the USA, fascism in Europe, "White Australia", etc. As the Chinese middle class grows it will democratize further; it's several decades behind the west right now, but it will get there.

Seriously? Cutting off peoples electricity. They can't do that. If your paying for heating, they can't just turn it off because they want to fix there smog reputation.

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Seriously? Cutting off peoples electricity. They can't do that. If your paying for heating, they can't just turn it off because they want to fix there smog reputation.

Tony.... I'd highly encourage you to do some world travel. You'll see lots of great architecture. And you'll learn that things in other countries don't always work how they do in jolly old England.

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Seriously? Cutting off peoples electricity. They can't do that. If your paying for heating, they can't just turn it off because they want to fix there smog reputation.

Cutting off people's *electricity* is one of the more harmless things to happen if said people are in the way of a big project in China.

Just saying...

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Seriously? Cutting off peoples electricity. They can't do that. If your paying for heating, they can't just turn it off because they want to fix there smog reputation.

I believe they considered it as an emergency measure for 2008, though it wasn't necessary in the end. My point is that China, as an authoritarian country, is able to take extreme measures that would bury a democratic government in order to pull the games off successfully. The question with a Chinese Olympic bid is not whether they would find a way to fix any problems encountered, but the human cost of the games.

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I don't think the IOC cares about the human cost of the Games as long as it is swept under the rug. I think they see it as the cost of doing business and trying to maintain a global presence.

The reason the IOC won't want to return to China is the proximity of Beijing 2008, PC 2018 and Tokyo 2020.

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I don't think the IOC cares about the human cost of the Games as long as it is swept under the rug. I think they see it as the cost of doing business and trying to maintain a global presence.

The reason the IOC won't want to return to China is the proximity of Beijing 2008, PC 2018 and Tokyo 2020.

I agree that the IOC won't return to China because of the proximity of Beijing 2008, PyeongChang 2018 and Tokyo 2020, but I don't think that's the only reason. I keep saying it, but Environment Issues (Especially in the Winter), Human Rights issues, Communism Government and bad International relations with Macau, Hong Kong, Tibet and Japan will all play a role. Though some could argue that those issues didn't affect Beijing's successful Bid for the 2008 Summer Olympics and Paralympics, but I believe that the IOC gave China the benefit of the doubt. Now though, even after the Beijing Olympics and Paralympics in 2008, those issues are still existing. So I reckon that the IOC won't go back there for a very long time and when they do, I reckon it will be a Summer Olympics and Paralympics in Shanghai, China.

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There is an Albertville effect in this bid. The snowboard venues are spread over three different resorts for instance.

In fact the ski venues are not at all in Zhangjiakou, they are around a ski resort named Taizicheng (can be found on Google maps) where the Olympic Village is located. Taizicheng is as far from Zhangjiakou as Sochi was from Rosa Khutor. And I don't speak of Beijing.

Zhangjiakou has a population of 500,000, would have made quite a decent bid city I think.

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The capacities for the indoor arenas are weird:

National Indoor Stadium is listed as having 6,000 seats instead of 17,000

Wukesong has 10,000 instead of 10,000

Capital Indoor Stadium has 12,000 instead of 13,000

I'm a bit lost here, are they planning on actually REDUCING the capacities for the games? :blink:

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