Beijing/Zhangjiakou 2022

[FYI]

I just want to say I don't support almost anything GCL says...

No, just most of it.

[FYI]

*in this case.

[Olympic Fan Darcy]

Yeah, cuz all you need is a couple of fricken venues & everything's hunky dorey. THAT's whats "stupid".

Answer the question. Do you really think having some venues in place wouldn't lower the budget?

Might as well have hosted nothing. The only reason they've hosted what little they have, is cuz they were the only bidders in the two events that they've gone for. And that's the only way they would get this too. By no one else wanting to bother.

That doesn't mean they've hosted nothing... Now you're just flat out denying things that have happened.

Oh, excuse me. You said "WITHOUT work needing to be done". Basically the same thing as "no' work needing to be done. Again, the "venues" aren't everything. OTHER work would have to be done. Plain & simple. Again, that's what the report reflects. .

Don't assume and say " basically". I said "Almaty has the most existing venues without work needing to be done". Which is true. Almaty has 8, Oslo has 1 and Beijing has 4.

I know i'm sounding as repetitive as Tony but it's because you're acting like an ignorant child and ignoring the facts.

Would Almaty be the best host for 2022? No. Will Almaty beat Beijing? No. Does Almaty have the most existing venues in place that don't need work done? Yes. Does having venues in place lower the budget? Yes.

I'm getting sick to death of hearing that Almaty will be like Sochi and will cost an exorbitant amount of money. YET Beijing spent an exorbitant amount of money on the 2008 games and had their budget blow up. So I can base my claims on that.

I'm not making bullshit claims like GCL claiming that Kazakhstan is the future of the world and I can't guarantee that Kazakhstan won't have a blow up budget. But you need to get your head out of Beijing's ass and stop acting like they're the best thing to happen to the IOC.

[Tony E Loves Architecture]

The thing is GCL and Olympic Fan Darcy, Your both obsessed with Almaty. Both of You supporting and giving false information in favour of Almaty 2022 is irrelevant, because the IOC has made it absolutely clear they don't want to go to Almaty. Neither do most of us. Let's look at some facts with the arguments about Venues. When Rio Bid for the 2016 Summer Olympics and Paralympics, what did Rio have to Build:

- An additional Aquatics Centre.

- Rebuild a Velodrome.

- About 4 New Indoor Halls.

- Expand the Existing Athletics Stadium.

- Renovate the Existing Aquatics Centre.

- Build an Athletes Village.

- Build a new Golf Course.

I could go on.

Despite the fact that Tokyo had more existing Venues (Indoor Arena, Aquatics Centre and some Venues from the 1964 Summer Olympics and Paralympics), they chose Rio De Janeiro. So the argument about Almaty having more Existing Venues is irrelevant in the argument and because the IOC has made it clear that they don't want Almaty 2022. Yes, I know we are talking about Winter Olympics and Paralympics, but the argument is still similar on a smaller scale. In all fairness Olympic Fan Darcy, @FYI has a fair point when He says You agree with most of GCL's ridiculous claims. Also, by looks of it, You didn't read the evaluation report from the IOC. Almaty got the lowest score out of Oslo, Beijing and Almaty. Almaty needs to withdraw, to keep a bit of dignity IMO. Beijing is going no where. Also, @FYI is not 'Obsessed with Beijing', he like Me, can see the reality that Beijing is the Best of a very bad situation, which is the the IOC's own fault. Also, Almaty only got some of their Hosting because no one else Bidded and Almaty is only a Candidate City because of a small number of options. They won't Win. Real and Simple.

I meant 1964 Summer Olympics, because the Paralympics were held separately back then.

[zekekelso]

At some point we are going to move on from this hypothetical discussion of who should win, and have to start facing the very real possibility that the 2022 Olympic games will be in Zhangjiakou. A festival that started in Chamonix and St. Moritz is now going to an anonymous "artificial" ski area for the third time in a row. The Olympics themselves will be in East Asia for the third time in a row. What's going on? Will anyone care? Or are the games just a made-for-teevee event anyway so it doesn't matter who hosts.

Note - the general consensus of GB posters is that the games have grown too arrogant, costly and big for their own good. But Korea, Japan and China aren't stupid. Nor are they "little" nations trying to get respect by hosting. What do they see that countries in the West do not?

[Rob2012]

At some point we are going to move on from this hypothetical discussion of who should win, and have to start facing the very real possibility that the 2022 Olympic games will be in Zhangjiakou. A festival that started in Chamonix and St. Moritz is now going to an anonymous "artificial" ski area for the third time in a row. The Olympics themselves will be in East Asia for the third time in a row. What's going on? Will anyone care? Or are the games just a made-for-teevee event anyway so it doesn't matter who hosts.

Note - the general consensus of GB posters is that the games have grown too arrogant, costly and big for their own good. But Korea, Japan and China aren't stupid. Nor are they "little" nations trying to get respect by hosting. What do they see that countries in the West do not?

Don't forget, most of the Western European bids were destroyed by referendums. If Tokyo had a referndum in 2007 when their bid only had 45% support, we'd have no Japanese Games either. It might've been touch and go with London 2012 as well if we had a referendum in 2003 (although iirc our support was in the 60% range at that stage). Nations which have a culture of political referendums will have an extra hurdle to get past. Those that don't just need political agreement as a starting point.

[FYI]

I know i'm sounding as repetitive as Tony but it's because you're acting like an ignorant child and ignoring the facts.

Wow - this is extremely RICH coming from you. Especially when I've mentioned the FACT that the preliminary evaluation obviously doesn't share your 'ignorant' view. You just continually choose to conveniently "ignore" it. As if by doing so, it gives your argument some merit, when it clearly doesn't.

I'm not making bullshit claims like GCL claiming that Kazakhstan is the future of the world and I can't guarantee that Kazakhstan won't have a blow up budget. But you need to get your head out of Beijing's ass and stop acting like they're the best thing to happen to the IOC.

I've NEVER said that Beijing is the best thing to happen to the IOC. Now you're just blantantly making stuff up. But much like GCL, it's virtually impossible to have any form of discussion with you, since you always have your 'obnoxious, hypersensitive' (as krow put it's) Almaty blinders on. So I'm done. Can't continuing arguing with 'ignorant chidren' who conveniently 'ignore facts' of their own.

[paul]

....highs and lows, it's a low for now but that doesn't mean the current hosts cannot be great hosts and it does not mean their Olympics will not be historic and important events that hopefully will leave benefits and positive legacy.

1976 all the way to into 84 before the LA games was probably a huge low-lower-lowest time when risk was high that the games could stop existing.....and then LA righted the boat and made it possible for the IOC to grow and expand.....unfortunately maybe to the dizzying heights/egos we have seen more recently which have made proper hosts more resistant to take on the risk of bidding for something ridiculously out of control that could damage a country both politically and economically. What sane competent fair country/government would want to get involved with and answer to an international club of privileged and protected self important snobs who likely care more about their personal accommodations at a games than the do about sports or a hosts well being and legacy.

This whole thing has soured again, the lineup of dictators and authoritarian rulers who are winking and nodding to the IOC about their unlimited devotion and interest in sports and world peace is disgusting when you consider what those same countries/leaders have contributed to the current state of the world let alone international sports.

So it's currently a well deserved low........and I even think the IOC has done such an amazingly effective job at damaging their brand that it can still go lower.

[baron-pierreIV]

And this is where the IOC dropped the ball. After settling the USOC broadcast rights agreement, they should've lobbied the USOC hard to present a Winter 2022 candidate rather than a Summer 2024. Now, they're left between Cylla and Caribdes.

[Athensfan]

And this is where the IOC dropped the ball. After settling the USOC broadcast rights agreement, they should've lobbied the USOC hard to present a Winter 2022 candidate rather than a Summer 2024. Now, they're left between Cylla and Caribdes.

Do you mean Scylla and Charybdis?

[mr.bernham]

And this is where the IOC dropped the ball. After settling the USOC broadcast rights agreement, they should've lobbied the USOC hard to present a Winter 2022 candidate rather than a Summer 2024. Now, they're left between Cylla and Caribdes.

I would have backed a US bid for 2022. I would prefer a later Summer Games anyways.

Although I wonder if the US could have pulled off another Atlanta. Have SLC or Denver host 2022 and then we come back and win 2024 too.

[Athensfan]

I would have backed a US bid for 2022. I would prefer a later Summer Games anyways.

Although I wonder if the US could have pulled off another Atlanta. Have SLC or Denver host 2022 and then we come back and win 2024 too.

Look at the way the IOC is awarding Olympic Games. If the US hosted 2022, there would likely be AT LEAST a 20 year gap before American Summer Games -- meaning 2044. If you think they'd come any sooner, you're deluding yourself. A 48-year gap between Sumner Games in the US would have a huge negative impact on the popularity of the Games in this country and on the US' role in the Olympic Movement.

The US must host Summer Games first. Then they can come back for the under contested Winter Games a few cycles later. Reverse that order and the US will be in for a VERY long wait that could be much more than 20 years.

People who think the US could grab both 2022 and 2032 are really clueless, IMO.

[Rob2012]

People who think the US could grab both 2022 and 2032 are really clueless, IMO.

Then again, only a short time ago the notion of China 2022 would've been laughed at.

Depends how desperate the circumstances are, but you're right that nobody should expect to get the Games that often anymore. It shouldn't be in people's minds that a US Winter Games could shortly be followed by a US Summer Games. It would take exceptional circumstances for that to happen.

[FYI]

Looks like those theories will never be put to the test, since the U.S. didn't bid for 2022, anyway.

[woohooitsme83]

The thing is GCL and Olympic Fan Darcy, Your both obsessed with Almaty. Both of You supporting and giving false information in favour of Almaty 2022 is irrelevant, because the IOC has made it absolutely clear they don't want to go to Almaty. Neither do most of us. Let's look at some facts with the arguments about Venues. When Rio Bid for the 2016 Summer Olympics and Paralympics, what did Rio have to Build:

- An additional Aquatics Centre.

- Rebuild a Velodrome.

- About 4 New Indoor Halls.

- Expand the Existing Athletics Stadium.

- Renovate the Existing Aquatics Centre.

- Build an Athletes Village.

- Build a new Golf Course.

I could go on.

The IOC can get really flexible when it comes to new frontiers.

[paul]

I wonder who will bid for 2024 in the end....will it be stronger than 2020?

But hey ..... Good for the Bejingers if they want to host..........it will be spectacular, at least the city parts.

Edited September 1, 2014 by paul

[mr.bernham]

I wonder who will bid for 2024 in the end....will it be stronger than 2020?

But hey ..... Good for the Bejingers if they want to host..........it will be spectacular, at least the city parts.

Well LA is obviously going to come with a very strong bid, Istanbul is bound to bid again, depending on the referendums we could see either Berlin or Hamburg join the ranks as well. Paris and Rome seem to be on the fence and I have little faith they will bid.

[ofan]

Well LA is obviously going to come with a very strong bid, Istanbul is bound to bid again, depending on the referendums we could see either Berlin or Hamburg join the ranks as well. Paris and Rome seem to be on the fence and I have little faith they will bid.

I'm pretty sure Istanbul has already said they they won't bid, but I could be wrong.

[mr.bernham]

I'm pretty sure Istanbul has already said they they won't bid, but I could be wrong.

That was Madrid. Istanbul, like the United States, will make a decision at the end of the year. I'm guessing that many cities are waiting on the results of agenda 20/20 before they make any full commitments.

[Tony E Loves Architecture]

The IOC can get really flexible when it comes to new frontiers.

Like I've said before, Rio De Janeiro and Durban are exceptions, because they are new Continents. Asia isn't a New Continent. 9 out of 10 People would choose Beijing over Almaty, or in this case, it's actually 20-30 people against 2 (2 being GCL and Olympic Fan Darcy). Almaty doesn't have anything special or exciting Bid. Rio will bring the Olympics to South America for the First ever Time, Durban would bring the Olympics to Africa for the First ever Time. Almaty? Sorry, Asia has Hosted before and will do again with Beijing, if Oslo withdraws. Me and FYI have been saying this, but GCL and Olympic Fan Darcy can't understand the reality of this situation. So what if Almaty has new Venues, didn't affect what the IOC's evaluation said. Sochi only got the 2014 Winter Olympics and Paralympics because of Putin's big involvement and big influence in the IOC and International Federations. We have seen a Summer Olympics and Paralympics in China before, so we know they can deliver. Almaty, we don't know and the IOC isn't in that ideal situation to take risks. Almaty are only Hosting the 2017 Winter Universiade because no one else Bidded, but they are Hosting that after the 2022 Winter Olympics and Paralympics decision, so the 2017 Winter Universiade might not be successful, who knows? And, Almaty is Hosting the 2017 World Expo after the decision. What's a World Expo got to do with the Olympics?

[mr.bernham]

"Istanbul set to bid again for 2024 Olympics but final decision will be taken at end of year"

[paul]

Almaty has a lot of oil cash and is probably more desperately wanting it than Beijing.

...i should have said a LOT of oil cash.

...not that Beijing doesn't have loads of cash but who is more desperate to host, who is more desperate to climb onto the world stage, who has the most to prove?

Edited September 1, 2014 by paul

[woohooitsme83]

Like I've said before, Rio De Janeiro and Durban are exceptions, because they are new Continents. Asia isn't a New Continent. 9 out of 10 People would choose Beijing over Almaty, or in this case, it's actually 20-30 people against 2 (2 being GCL and Olympic Fan Darcy). Almaty doesn't have anything special or exciting Bid. Rio will bring the Olympics to South America for the First ever Time, Durban would bring the Olympics to Africa for the First ever Time. Almaty? Sorry, Asia has Hosted before and will do again with Beijing, if Oslo withdraws. Me and FYI have been saying this, but GCL and Olympic Fan Darcy can't understand the reality of this situation. So what if Almaty has new Venues, didn't affect what the IOC's evaluation said. Sochi only got the 2014 Winter Olympics and Paralympics because of Putin's big involvement and big influence in the IOC and International Federations. We have seen a Summer Olympics and Paralympics in China before, so we know they can deliver. Almaty, we don't know and the IOC isn't in that ideal situation to take risks. Almaty are only Hosting the 2017 Winter Universiade because no one else Bidded, but they are Hosting that after the 2022 Winter Olympics and Paralympics decision, so the 2017 Winter Universiade might not be successful, who knows? And, Almaty is Hosting the 2017 World Expo after the decision. What's a World Expo got to do with the Olympics?

Yes, Asia has hosted before, BUT that would be East Asia (China, Japan, Korea), and Northern Asia (Russia). Now, I'm not trying to support Kazakhstan or anything, but Asia is so large, each individual region [that hasn't hosted yet] should be treated as a new frontier.

[Tony E Loves Architecture]

Yes, Asia has hosted before, BUT that would be East Asia (China, Japan, Korea), and Northern Asia (Russia). Now, I'm not trying to support Kazakhstan or anything, but Asia is so large, each individual region [that hasn't hosted yet] should be treated as a new frontier.

That's not what the Olympic Rings represents, otherwise there would be more then 5 Rings. The IOC classifies Almaty as Asia.

Bottom line is, Almaty isn't Hosting for the reasons I said above.

[ofan]

That's not what the Olympic Rings represents, otherwise there would be more then 5 Rings. The IOC classifies Almaty as Asia.

Bottom line is, Almaty isn't Hosting for the reasons I said above.

And one of the rings represents "the Americas", but you cited Rio as a new frontier earlier.