baron-pierreIV Posted November 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2013 I wonder if the OC will have a skier come down that neck of the cauldron and, like Vancouver, "explode" into the interior of Fisht??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illustrado Posted November 14, 2013 Report Share Posted November 14, 2013 Another couple of good pics from Baron's secret agen...um...the SSC Sochi thread The second one surely proves beyond all doubt that this is the cauldron...talk about the opposite of London. you're quite right. but i ave a felling that this might violate the Olympic charter if this is only use this cauldron but what i actually want to see is the interior of the stadium, where will the show cauldron be at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted November 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2013 but what i actually want to see is the interior of the stadium, where will the show cauldron be at? So, we're all speculating it will be Firebird theme. I think it will be a Firebird - Prometheus story...and I think the BIG jaw-dropper here is that it will emerge from the ice rink (or they could simply slide it in from the wings). Like the ice floor in the center rink of the stage will give rise to the 'show' cauldron...which will then have a 'tail trail" that shoots out to the outside tower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshi Posted November 14, 2013 Report Share Posted November 14, 2013 Why would it violate the charter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PyroKinesis Posted November 14, 2013 Report Share Posted November 14, 2013 Why would it violate the charter? Everyone in the stadium has to see the cauldron be lit. Not everyone would be able to see this one out on the plaza. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted November 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2013 Everyone in the stadium has to see the cauldron be lit. Not everyone would be able to see this one out on the plaza. Yes they will. The outside lighting will be shown on the giant screens inside. So, it "fulfills" the IOC dictum. And that's why there will probably be an indoor 'show' cauldron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ofan Posted November 14, 2013 Report Share Posted November 14, 2013 Everyone in the stadium has to see the cauldron be lit. Not everyone would be able to see this one out on the plaza. Not everyone in the stadium in Beijing could see the cauldron being lit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted November 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2013 Not everyone in the stadium in Beijing could see the cauldron being lit. They saw it on the giant screens. The IOC directive was written BEFORE they could install the giant screens inside the stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PyroKinesis Posted November 14, 2013 Report Share Posted November 14, 2013 Yes they will. The outside lighting will be shown on the giant screens inside. So, it "fulfills" the IOC dictum. And that's why there will probably be an indoor 'show' cauldron. Then what was the point of the cauldron inside BC Place? Just put the one outside on screens inside! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ofan Posted November 14, 2013 Report Share Posted November 14, 2013 They saw it on the giant screens. The IOC directive was written BEFORE they could install the giant screens inside the stadium. So your idea of a show cauldron for Sochi in the stadium is unnecessary. I think that there will be a lighting of a "wick" inside of the stadium, and then the flame will travel outside to the cauldron, similar to what Shenzen appears to have done in that video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshi Posted November 14, 2013 Report Share Posted November 14, 2013 I'm starting to doubt whether we'll see the firebird in the lighting sequence. The whole theme of the relay seems to be space exploration, including the cauldron design. Would it be possible to send the flame into space as a beam & bounce it back into the cauldron on Earth? Especially as then the final torch would've sent something into space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted November 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2013 Then what was the point of the cauldron inside BC Place? Just put the one outside on screens inside! To have a "live" lighting inside -- which partially satisfies the IOC directive. It's also to give the "live" ticket buyers a real climax to their show. The IOC Charter doesn't say you CAN'T have a faux or a pre-Lighting in the enclosed stadium beforehand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olympian2004 Posted November 16, 2013 Report Share Posted November 16, 2013 In fact, we are still referring to an old version of the IOC Charter all the time. The current version doesn't mention at all that the lighting of the cauldron has to be seen from inside and outside the stadium. So I'm really curious whether a future Olympic host will test the IOC's new patience (in terms of the cauldron lighting) by making the cauldron lighting invisible for the stadium audience. London's lighting was a start, since it wasn't visible from outside the stadium (besides the screens on top of the stadium and the TV broadcast, of course). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted November 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2013 London's lighting was a start, since it wasn't visible from outside the stadium (besides the screens on top of the stadium and the TV broadcast, of course). Ah. But remember they had large screens set up outside in the QE park; where else? Hyde Park? There by Buckingham Palace. So that, in a way, fulfills the dictum that it be seen outside the stadium. Besides, that stupid Orbital I think stole the thunder in terms of putting up another towering cauldron. In terms of a carbon imprint and green concerns, perhaps London's is more appropos to 21st century social sensibilities than the gigantic caldera of Torino, Beijing and Sochi, belching all that emission. Of course, Russia is rich in gas...but it shouldn't give them license to overdo it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athensfan Posted November 16, 2013 Report Share Posted November 16, 2013 In fact, we are still referring to an old version of the IOC Charter all the time. The current version doesn't mention at all that the lighting of the cauldron has to be seen from inside and outside the stadium. So I'm really curious whether a future Olympic host will test the IOC's new patience (in terms of the cauldron lighting) by making the cauldron lighting invisible for the stadium audience. London's lighting was a start, since it wasn't visible from outside the stadium (besides the screens on top of the stadium and the TV broadcast, of course). What would be the point though? The cauldron lighting is the climax of the OC. Why would anyone pay thousands for a single ticket and then not be able to see the climax of the show? It makes no sense. Things have already unraveled to the point where we've had two cauldrons and a cauldron that was invisible to the public outside the stadium. I don't think it will degenerate to the point where the flame is not visible to any of the live OC audience. I believe Sochi will do something inside and outside. Eventually you have to start asking "why bother with a flame at all?" If it's significance and visibility are so consistently compromised, there's just no point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMarkSnow2012 Posted November 16, 2013 Report Share Posted November 16, 2013 Things have already unraveled to the point where we've had two cauldrons and a cauldron that was invisible to the public outside the stadium. Yes, in 1952 and 1948 respectively, as far as Summer games are concerned. Eventually you have to start asking "why bother with a flame at all?" If it's significance and visibility are so consistently compromised, there's just no point. Of course there's a point; the Cauldron is the spiritual focus of the entire Games, even for venues which are out of sight of the actual Olympic Park. Television, which was of course not available until 1936, can make the cauldron visible "live" as easily in those distant venues as in the shadow of the main stadium itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athensfan Posted November 16, 2013 Report Share Posted November 16, 2013 Yes, in 1952 and 1948 respectively, as far as Summer games are concerned. Of course there's a point; the Cauldron is the spiritual focus of the entire Games, even for venues which are out of sight of the actual Olympic Park. Television, which was of course not available until 1936, can make the cauldron visible "live" as easily in those distant venues as in the shadow of the main stadium itself. I guess that's why London put it out a few times, hid it for the first week of the Games and then stashed it in a corner during the second week. What were Coe's words? Something like "Well, it's not for the tourists." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMarkSnow2012 Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 I guess that's why London put it out a few times, hid it for the first week of the Games and then stashed it in a corner during the second week. During the London Olympics, the Flame was twice extinguished overnight, while no competitions were in progress, moved, and re-lit early the next morning after safety testing. The timing of the first extinguishment, perhaps or perhaps not coincidentally, echoed the accidental failure of the Olympic Flame on day 3 of the 1948 London Games. The standard position of the 2012 Cauldron, from 30 July to 11 August, precisely matched the position of the 1948 Cauldron (except that the long axis of Wembley Stadium is west-east rather than north-south), and it was clearly visible from most parts of the stadium. As I noted in my last post, although the Cauldron was hidden from direct view of casual visitors, the live camera views of it were available for display throughout the Park, and at any venue. Although this was a controversial approach, the fact remains that, in an age where the burning of excessive amounts of carbon-based fuels may just have caused the biggest storm in recorded history, keeping a fire large enough to look impressive in wide-shots of a major sport stadium continuously alight for more than a fortnight would be just as unpopular. It looks as though the Russians don't care (having recently laid a new undersea pipeline to Sochi from the gas-fields further up the coast)- but I think the Brazilians probably will, and may well provide a most ingenious solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob2012 Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 A two cauldron solution like Vancouver might've meant less of a compromise for London in terms of its placement, whilst stil allowing for the beautifully uncompromised lighting. In any case, it's true one of the few aspects of London 202 the IOC criticised was the cauldron placement after the ceremonies. What London did, therefore, won't be repeated. I think Sochi will see a two-cauldron solution too, given the roof they now have over their stadium, which is surely not how they envisaged things going when they originally designed their open-air stadium. Unless you've got an open stadium, or one with a strong roof, this cauldron business is a bit of a nightmare! I'm looking forward to people untangling the web of architecture that is Hadid's Tokyo 2020 stadium when the time comes to predict its cauldron. And before that of course, we've got Rio and who knows what they'll do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted November 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 Although this was a controversial approach, the fact remains that, in an age where the burning of excessive amounts of carbon-based fuels may just have caused the biggest storm in recorded history, The thing is...the IOC must SCRATCH that dictum of theirs that the cauldron MUST BE SEEN from most of the host city. That is what gives rise to huge, gigantic caldera like Sochi's. While a 27-day (including the Paralympics) Olympic cauldron burn is probably a drop in the bucket of greenhouse gas emissions, nonetheless the expectations of a huge, big one for every Games should definitely be curbed. It's so much easier to hide a small cauldron and makes it more fun for Games geeks like those that inhabit a certain website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMarkSnow2012 Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 Unless you've got an open stadium, or one with a strong roof, this cauldron business is a bit of a nightmare! I'm looking forward to people untangling the web of architecture that is Hadid's Tokyo 2020 stadium when the time comes to predict its cauldron. You don't need a fantastically strong roof. The entire London cauldron could have been suspended from the stadium's overhead wires. If the Tokyo stadium retains that transparent roof, the cauldron could be implemented on an amazingly lightweight and fuel-economic basis as a fairly narrow zone of burners across the middle (perhaps forming characters, e.g. 2020 ). It might be a challenge to get it past the healthandsafety folks- but not an impossible one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illustrado Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 The thing is...the IOC must SCRATCH that dictum of theirs that the cauldron MUST BE SEEN from most of the host city. That is what gives rise to huge, gigantic caldera like Sochi's. While a 27-day (including the Paralympics) Olympic cauldron burn is probably a drop in the bucket of greenhouse gas emissions, nonetheless the expectations of a huge, big one for every Games should definitely be curbed. It's so much easier to hide a small cauldron and makes it more fun for Games geeks like those that inhabit a certain website. i still remember the time we speculated that the 2012 cauldron was near the old bridge were the rivers meet or the tor or that bell will be flipped up to make the cauldron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted November 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 You don't need a fantastically strong roof. The entire London cauldron could have been suspended from the stadium's overhead wires. If the Tokyo stadium retains that transparent roof, the cauldron could be implemented on an amazingly lightweight and fuel-economic basis as a fairly narrow zone of burners across the middle (perhaps forming characters, e.g. 2020 ). It might be a challenge to get it past the healthandsafety folks- but not an impossible one. We've been thru this before. Fire marshals and the IOC would nix 'suspended' caldera. It's NOT that important that they have to be 'suspended' in the air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMarkSnow2012 Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 We've been thru this before. Fire marshals and the IOC would nix 'suspended' caldera. It's NOT that important that they have to be 'suspended' in the air. Has the policy been tightened very recently? Clearly a cauldron attached to the roof within the stadium was acceptable in 2008. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Tickle Posted November 18, 2013 Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 If its half as beautiful as London's concept and lighting it will be a sight to behold for sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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