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Beijing won't 'Negotiate' anything with Almaty and Almaty won't 'Negotiate' anything with Beijing. This is not how Bidding processes works. You don't bribe other Bidders so that You can be the only Bidders, otherwise they will be no better than Fifa is when accepting Bribes from Russia and Qatar.

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Of course you would never get new hosts simply by following such logic on the surface. However, there's quite a between choosing a "responsible" (or at the very least appearing that way) new host, versus one that wouldn't be as smart of a choice.

Almaty failed to score adequately in 11 out of the 14 categories in the IOC's 2022 prelimanary evaluation. Rio, which scored much higher in their respective preliminary, is giving the IOC serious concern about their readiness over 2016. And many are quick to cite this problem when it comes to other new horizons, particularly South Africa.

So how is this any different, especially when said bid is quite lacking. Chosing the locale in this case just for the sake of being "new" wouldn't be the wisest move in this case. Especially when said bid wouldn't even be part of the discussions any longer had we actually had a packed field like initially anticipated. A new pair of Walmart jeans ain't anymore "exciting" just cuz they're "new".

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It's not the Perfect situation, but Beijing is the much safer choice then Almaty is.

Beijing has proven it can deliver, Almaty hasn't.

oh my.... what winter events beijing hosts recently huh??? some chinese city i know had proven some winter experience are including

1.harbin (winter universiade 2009)

2.changchun (winter asiad 2007)

you can't find beijing in that list which it means you have to prove beijing had some winter experience here..

a 1/2 of winter asiad and an upcoming winter universiade in 2017... at least from these data have shown you that almaty has more than beijing...

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oh my.... what winter events beijing hosts recently huh??? some chinese city i know had proven some winter experience are including

1.harbin (winter universiade 2009)

2.changchun (winter asiad 2007)

you can't find beijing in that list which it means you have to prove beijing had some winter experience here..

a 1/2 of winter asiad and an upcoming winter universiade in 2017... at least from these data have shown you that almaty has more than beijing...

He is talking about hosting the Olympics...everyone here pretty much agrees that Beijing has little to no winter experience but is a more secure and safe choice because of the 2008 games. The IOC is familiar with China and knows what to expect, Almaty is more of a jump and the IOC does not need to make jumps now, they need to take the bridges.

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oh my.... what winter events beijing hosts recently huh??? some chinese city i know had proven some winter experience are including

1.harbin (winter universiade 2009)

2.changchun (winter asiad 2007)

you can't find beijing in that list which it means you have to prove beijing had some winter experience here..

a 1/2 of winter asiad and an upcoming winter universiade in 2017... at least from these data have shown you that almaty has more than beijing...

Beijing has proven it can Host. Beijing successfully Hosted the 2nd Most Important Sporting Event in the World (So did London in 2012), second only to the Fifa World Cup. Almaty hasn't. CO-Hosting an Asian Winter Games with Astana proves nothing.

Beijing is the safe choice in this bad situation.

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Beijing has proven it can Host. Beijing successfully Hosted the 2nd Most Important Sporting Event in the World (So did London in 2012), second only to the Fifa World Cup. Almaty hasn't. CO-Hosting an Asian Winter Games with Astana proves nothing.

Beijing is the safe choice in this bad situation.

Problem with that is that Beijing has only ever hosted one snow event, and it was a city aerials event (basicly the easiest thing to organize out of the snow events). Zhangjiakou and the Xiaohaituo Mountain Area have zero experience hosting international events. At least Almaty isn't completly foreign to the idea of hosting snow sports.

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Problem with that is that Beijing has only ever hosted one snow event, and it was a city aerials event (basicly the easiest thing to organize out of the snow events). Zhangjiakou and the Xiaohaituo Mountain Area have zero experience hosting international events. At least Almaty isn't completly foreign to the idea of hosting snow sports.

That's irrelevant though. The IOC has already said that they don't want Almaty to Host. The Evaluation gave Almaty the lowest score. The only way Beijing won't Host in 2022 is if Beijing withdraws.

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That's irrelevant though. The IOC has already said that they don't want Almaty to Host. The Evaluation gave Almaty the lowest score. The only way Beijing won't Host in 2022 is if Beijing withdraws.

How is that irrelevant, when every single post of yours claims Beijing has more experience?

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Beijing has proven it can Host. Beijing successfully Hosted the 2nd Most Important Sporting Event in the World (So did London in 2012), second only to the Fifa World Cup. Almaty hasn't. CO-Hosting an Asian Winter Games with Astana proves nothing.

Beijing is the safe choice in this bad situation.

There's absolutely no need to even mention London or the World Cup there other than to be obnoxious. Might as well name the other 25 ot so cities that have hosted. What makes London so special? And you wonder why ppl "have a go at you". Edited by ofan
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That's irrelevant though. The IOC has already said that they don't want Almaty to Host. The Evaluation gave Almaty the lowest score. The only way Beijing won't Host in 2022 is if Beijing withdraws.

It is absolutely, 100% relevent. Hosting the ice events, like Beijing has done in the past, is frankly the easy part. I have full confidence that everything in Beijing proper would go swimingly in 2022. The problem is everything up in the mountains. Hosting Alpine events is a whole different animal. Hosting freestyle events is a whole different animal. Even hosting nordic events and sleeding events can get complicated. The snow venues Beijing plan to use have no experience hosting anything, summer or winter. That is very concerning, especially when it comes to Alpine events.

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It is absolutely, 100% relevent. Hosting the ice events, like Beijing has done in the past, is frankly the easy part. I have full confidence that everything in Beijing proper would go swimingly in 2022. The problem is everything up in the mountains. Hosting Alpine events is a whole different animal. Hosting freestyle events is a whole different animal. Even hosting nordic events and sleeding events can get complicated. The snow venues Beijing plan to use have no experience hosting anything, summer or winter. That is very concerning, especially when it comes to Alpine events.

Let's be fair about something here.. how much experience did Sochi have before they built their mountain venues from scratch? Not to say that's necessarily good precedent to use here, but this wouldn't be a first for the IOC to choose a host without serious Winter host experience.

So here's the dilemma if you're the IOC. On the one hand, you have an internationally well-known city that has held an Olympics before you and know can handle the influx of people, but obviously they're sorely lacking in experience and infrastructure when it comes to Winter sports. On the other hand is a relatively unknown city in an unknown country that has some Winter sports facilities and experience, but the question is could they handle everything on a larger scale. The initial impression from the IOC is that they're not that confident in Almaty.

Who knows if this is a situation where China can throw billions of dollars at the situation to make this all work. But given the mess they're in, I think the IOC would rather take their chances with China. This is the Olympics after all. It's not just a Winter sports festival. It's THE Winter sports festival. So while I agree with you Kazakhstan's hosting experience counts for something, I don't think it's enough to get them chosen here.

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Let's be fair about something here.. how much experience did Sochi have before they built their mountain venues from scratch? Not to say that's necessarily good precedent to use here, but this wouldn't be a first for the IOC to choose a host without serious Winter host experience.

So here's the dilemma if you're the IOC. On the one hand, you have an internationally well-known city that has held an Olympics before you and know can handle the influx of people, but obviously they're sorely lacking in experience and infrastructure when it comes to Winter sports. On the other hand is a relatively unknown city in an unknown country that has some Winter sports facilities and experience, but the question is could they handle everything on a larger scale. The initial impression from the IOC is that they're not that confident in Almaty.

Who knows if this is a situation where China can throw billions of dollars at the situation to make this all work. But given the mess they're in, I think the IOC would rather take their chances with China. This is the Olympics after all. It's not just a Winter sports festival. It's THE Winter sports festival. So while I agree with you Kazakhstan's hosting experience counts for something, I don't think it's enough to get them chosen here.

Exactly, Sochi was a summer resort afterall, before they hosted the "winter" Olympics. And while I've also mentioned this before a couple of times, the counter-argument is always 'but Sochi is what has got the IOC in this mess'. And while that is the case, I would totally agree if 2022 was this pocket-filled stellar, credible race that everyone was predicting three/four years ago. But it's not. It has totally derailed into one of chop liver or a plate of spam.

At least with one of them, the IOC could be confident with what they'll get. And Beijing also already has the ice venues. Which is way more than what could've been ever said of Sochi, which had absolutely nothing at all. Not to mention the political stability aspect that many here seem to ignore. While Almaty might appear good on paper, in reality it's likely to be the contrary.

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Exactly, Sochi was a summer resort afterall, before they hosted the "winter" Olympics. And while I've also mentioned this before a couple of times, the counter-argument is always 'but Sochi is what has got the IOC in this mess'. And while that is the case, I would totally agree if 2022 was this pocket-filled stellar, credible race that everyone was predicting three/four years ago. But it's not. It has totally derailed into one of chop liver or a plate of spam.

At least with one of them, the IOC could be confident with what they'll get. And Beijing also already has the ice venues. Which is way more than what could've been ever said of Sochi, which had absolutely nothing at all. Not to mention the political stability aspect that many here seem to ignore. While Almaty might appear good on paper, in reality it's likely to be the contrary.

Beijing actually doesn't have the ice venues. They've only ever been used for handball, basketball, etc. and aren't designed to hold an ice rink. We've seen the problem that the New York Islanders will face moving into the Barclays Center. The facility was designed for basketball, and a hockey rink causes obstructed views. Beijing will have a massive undertaking to get those venues to hockey/figure skating ready, which may be more of a headache than building a new venue from scratch.

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There's absolutely no need to even mention London or the World Cup there other than to be obnoxious. Might as well name the other 25 ot so cities that have hosted. What makes London so special? And you wonder why ppl "have a go at you".

Thought I was blocked?

Anyway, why even comment. There was no need to comment on it and as You like to pick out on some of us because of spellings, it's People, not ppl. :rolleyes:

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Thought I was blocked?

Anyway, why even comment. There was no need to comment on it and as You like to pick out on some of us because of spellings, it's People, not ppl. :rolleyes:

Real mature, Tony. We'll remember this one the next time you post one of your pleas for forgiveness and see if anyone wants to listen.

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He is talking about hosting the Olympics...everyone here pretty much agrees that Beijing has little to no winter experience but is a more secure and safe choice because of the 2008 games. The IOC is familiar with China and knows what to expect, Almaty is more of a jump and the IOC does not need to make jumps now, they need to take the bridges.

Beijing has proven it can Host. Beijing successfully Hosted the 2nd Most Important Sporting Event in the World (So did London in 2012), second only to the Fifa World Cup. Almaty hasn't. CO-Hosting an Asian Winter Games with Astana proves nothing.

Beijing is the safe choice in this bad situation.

okay... now i have 1 question....

let's head back to the 2018 race where munich is with strong olympic memories of summer 1972 who's looking forward to make history to become the first city to host both summer and winter olympics is defeated to pyeongchang which is very unknown at that time and even more unknown compared to almaty but they win... why???

right now i'm indeed matched munich with beijing who had been experienced in hosting the olympics and almaty with pyeongchang who has the winter sports facilities already although considered as new horizons...

if we take tony's words to my scenario above then munich should win 2018 instead of pyeongchang...

so my question is what makes the 2022 race different compared to 2018 if we see it from the scenario above???

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^not only that, but South Korea is also one of the worlds TOP economies, with a population of almost 50 million.

And it's not like South Korea was any stranger to the IOC, either, since (much like Beijing right now), Seoul hosted the 1988 Summer Olympics.

So the South Koreans already had Olympic experience, too. So if we're gonna compare apples to apples here, then Beijing is not very much different than PyeongChang was when you take into account all those other angles as well.

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okay... now i have 1 question....

let's head back to the 2018 race where munich is with strong olympic memories of summer 1972 who's looking forward to make history to become the first city to host both summer and winter olympics is defeated to pyeongchang which is very unknown at that time and even more unknown compared to almaty but they win... why???

right now i'm indeed matched munich with beijing who had been experienced in hosting the olympics and almaty with pyeongchang who has the winter sports facilities already although considered as new horizons...

if we take tony's words to my scenario above then munich should win 2018 instead of pyeongchang...

so my question is what makes the 2022 race different compared to 2018 if we see it from the scenario above???

As noted, Pyeongchang is anything but a known entity around the world, but to the IOC, it was very well known. Don't forget that they very nearly defeated Vancouver for the 2010 Olympics and then came just short of beating Sochi for 2014. The IOC's only interaction with Almaty was when they bid for the 2014 Olympics and failed to make the short list.

I don't know that you can paint an accurate comparison between 2018 and 2022. The key difference is that you had a bidder trying for their 3rd time. And you're also talking South Korea vs. Germany, not China vs. Kazakhstan. So while I understand some of the similarities between Munich and Beijing or PC and Almaty, to expect the same outcome on that basis is being very unfair to the situation.

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PC didn't just bid three times, so they were "due." After each of their bids, they worked very closely with the IOC. They listened to what the IOC told them and acted on it. They built venues. They changed their plans. They made promised they had no intention of keeping to make the IOC voters happy. After spending a decade doing every single thing the IOC asked for, PC would have been hard to deny.


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Personaly, I think any talk of hosting ability is pointless. Both Almaty and Beijing can host just fine. *Lots* of cities have hosted. Nobody has really screwed it up in the modern era. The IOC and the federation will supply tons of support and info. (Yes, they are run by corrupt weasels, but they know how to host the games.)

The question is where do you want the games hosted? And I can't image the IOC voters want to go to Kazahkstan

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