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Thank you FYI and Quaker2001, for putting the whole issue into such an astoundingly clear perspective for me. However, I do believe the possibility of a "fear factor" on the part of the cities bidding for the 2022 Olympiad might be aligned to Beijing's bid and cannot be entirely dismissed. We will just never know for sure.

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So, you think the IOC is lying to everyone with their short list??? The don't believe Almaty can deliver, but are spreading lies and forcing Almaty to spend lot of money so they can say they have thre

Speakout out against injustice and discrimination = "shove it down their throats". PS - Anyone else find it amusing that men opposed to gay rights seem to always use that expression.

The thing is, people that believe Beijing has the better bid including myself, has acknowledged that Beijing has issues, but Almaty has even worse issues. People that believe Almaty has the better bid won't acknowledge that Almaty has issues.

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Thank you FYI and Quaker2001, for putting the whole issue into such an astoundingly clear perspective for me. However, I do believe the possibility of a "fear factor" on the part of the cities bidding for the 2022 Olympiad might be aligned to Beijing's bid and cannot be entirely dismissed. We will just never know for sure.

Apparently not astoundingly clear enough. Your logic about this "fear factor" sounds like someone who is coming to this discussion late in the game rather than someone who has followed how these things have developed over the past couple of years. None of the cities that dropped out did so because they were scared of Beijing. For you to introduce that theory at this point when it's clear you don't know the finer details of everything that's gone on here as the rest of us have been paying attention sounds like someone jumping to a conclusion based on limited information.

Do you think the likes of Oslo and Stockholm and Krakow bowed out of the bidding because they were scared of Beijing? If that's what you believe, what makes you entertain that possibility? See, this is where if you had been a part of the conversation a year ago, you might not think this is true. When Beijing declared their intentions, the prevailing theory here was that they had little to no shot at beating out any of the European competition. So if that's the case, what would those cities/countries have to fear?

I see where you're coming from where you look at things now and think this might be the case. If you had been around a year ago though, you would realize it's a very unlikely theory. And yes, IMO, I will dismiss it entirely.

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Apparently not astoundingly clear enough. Your logic about this "fear factor" sounds like someone who is coming to this discussion late in the game rather than someone who has followed how these things have developed over the past couple of years. None of the cities that dropped out did so because they were scared of Beijing. For you to introduce that theory at this point when it's clear you don't know the finer details of everything that's gone on here as the rest of us have been paying attention sounds like someone jumping to a conclusion based on limited information.

Do you think the likes of Oslo and Stockholm and Krakow bowed out of the bidding because they were scared of Beijing? If that's what you believe, what makes you entertain that possibility? See, this is where if you had been a part of the conversation a year ago, you might not think this is true. When Beijing declared their intentions, the prevailing theory here was that they had little to no shot at beating out any of the European competition. So if that's the case, what would those cities/countries have to fear?

I see where you're coming from where you look at things now and think this might be the case. If you had been around a year ago though, you would realize it's a very unlikely theory. And yes, IMO, I will dismiss it entirely.

Given the share scale of Beijing 2008, the organizational excellence that defined Beijing 2008, and the fact that no resources were speared in accomplishing the overarching objective, China literally etched very distinctly itself in Olympic history. It is within the scope of the aforementioned contexts that I submit that European bidders would have weighed their chances against Beijing and POSSIBLY found themselves seriously wanting. Moreover, they would have been aware that with Beijing in the race, they would have had to pull out all the stops and all the money required to do such, and in reflecting on this concluded that was just economically unsound. PERHAPS resulting in their most gracious exit from the room.

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Given the share scale of Beijing 2008, the organizational excellence that defined Beijing 2008, and the fact that no resources were speared in accomplishing the overarching objective, China literally etched very distinctly itself in Olympic history. It is within the scope of the aforementioned contexts that I submit that European bidders would have weighed their chances against Beijing and POSSIBLY found themselves seriously wanting. Moreover, they would have been aware that with Beijing in the race, they would have had to pull out all the stops and all the money required to do such, and in reflecting on this concluded that was just economically unsound. PERHAPS resulting in their most gracious exit from the room.

Dude, do you talk like that in real life? Why does everyone of your posts sound like it's coming from an English professor?

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Dude, do you talk like that in real life? Why does everyone of your posts sound like it's coming from an English professor?

That's not what it sounds like to me. It sounds like someone who is trying too hard to write intelligently but comes off looking like a wannabe-pretentious douche.

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Given the share scale of Beijing 2008, the organizational excellence that defined Beijing 2008, and the fact that no resources were speared in accomplishing the overarching objective, China literally etched very distinctly itself in Olympic history. It is within the scope of the aforementioned contexts that I submit that European bidders would have weighed their chances against Beijing and POSSIBLY found themselves seriously wanting. Moreover, they would have been aware that with Beijing in the race, they would have had to pull out all the stops and all the money required to do such, and in reflecting on this concluded that was just economically unsound. PERHAPS resulting in their most gracious exit from the room.

Yea, I'm kinda with Ofan and Latin on this one. Although I'm thinking less English professor (who would not have so many spelling/grammatical errors in his posts) and more on the pretentious angle, but I digress from that one.

When I see you here talking about Beijing's organizational excellence (and previously where Rio was "Resplendently untouchable!" and had you "truly mesmerised".. seriously, who posts like that on the Internet), it tells me you don't know as much about Olympic bidding as you're letting on. Beijing spent $40 billion on the Olympics. You can certainly say there was a military-like precision to their ceremonies and other elements of their execution of the Games, but don't take it so far as to say the people who ran things for Beijing 2008 were so superior at their jobs. Hard to make that claim where the legacy of the Olympics is a bunch of white elephants and a lot of socio-economic issues that China said they were going to clean up, but in truth just patched up for the Olympics to put on a show for the world. Not unlike Sochi in that regard.

What won China the 2008 Olympics was not something they could easily repeat for 2022. A Winter Olympics, in comparison to a Summer Olympics, requires a lot of specialized infrastructure, particularly where the snow venues in the mountains are involved. Beijing is severely lacking in that regard, even compared to Almaty, and certainly compared to the European bidders they would have been up against. Again, put Beijing up against Oslo or Stockholm had they stayed in the race and it's not a question who would have won. You're talking about weighing their chances against Beijing. Well, their chances would have been excellent. The excess that Beijing put together for 2008 that won them that bid would probably work against them this time around, particularly on the heels of Sochi. No, none of these other bidders would have to "pull out all the stops" to compete with Beijing. They'd already be able to beat Beijing. Easily. You're right that they didn't think an Olympics would be economically sound. But that has absolutely nothing to do with Beijing's offering. And I wouldn't call the exit by those cities 'most gracious', less I was trying to sound witty.

Please understand how your posts appear to those of us who have been around for a while. You're trying to offer up a new theory based on bad assumptions that you wouldn't have if you weren't a newbie here. We're not trying to shoot down these ideas because they sound pretentious, but more that you seem to be missing the bigger picture. So once again, I am dismissing your possibility because I don't think it's worthy of being entertained. And, not to speak for others here, I don't think I'm alone in that regard.

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Given the share scale of Beijing 2008, the organizational excellence that defined Beijing 2008, and the fact that no resources were speared in accomplishing the overarching objective, China literally etched very distinctly itself in Olympic history. It is within the scope of the aforementioned contexts that I submit that European bidders would have weighed their chances against Beijing and POSSIBLY found themselves seriously wanting.

Can you explain a bit more clearly what you think Beijing did better than other hosts? I've never met anyone who attended Beijing and either London or Athens and preferred the experience in China.

I think it's pretty well established that the public is afraid of Sochi's $51 billion expense. Taxpayers don't want to be stuck paying $20+ billion to host the Olympics.

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Ooh or maybe he's Chinese or Asian and is a huge supporter of China and wants to believe the country still strikes fear around the world, which the only thing the rest of the world fears from China is that they don't make their deadline of manufacturing and shipping the latest crap for Walmart, Tesco and other similar stores in time!

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Thank you FYI and Quaker2001, for putting the whole issue into such an astoundingly clear perspective for me. However, I do believe the possibility of a "fear factor" on the part of the cities bidding for the 2022 Olympiad might be aligned to Beijing's bid and cannot be entirely dismissed. We will just never know for sure.

No, it can and should be entirely dismissed. Beijing's bid is not that strong. The distances between the city and mountain venues is ridiculous (not Stockholm/Are ridiculous, but still) and, more importantly, China has basically no experience hosting international snow events outside of aerials competitions.

Are is a major, well established alpine destination. So are Munich/Garmisch-Partenkirchen and Oslo/Lillehamer. Those cities all have a lot more winter sports infrastructure and experience than Beijing does. Not to mention that Western Europe is overdue for the Olympics while East Asia is already getting back-to-back Olympics.

Beijing had to feat the other bids, not the other way around.

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No, it can and should be entirely dismissed. Beijing's bid is not that strong. The distances between the city and mountain venues is ridiculous (not Stockholm/Are ridiculous, but still) and, more importantly, China has basically no experience hosting international snow events outside of aerials competitions.

Pyeongchang has no experience hosting international snow events and they won. IOC doesn't care about this experience. IOC doesn't care if a bid respect environment or local population. Beijing can win easily this race.

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No, it can and should be entirely dismissed. Beijing's bid is not that strong. The distances between the city and mountain venues is ridiculous (not Stockholm/Are ridiculous, but still) and, more importantly, China has basically no experience hosting international snow events outside of aerials competitions.

Are is a major, well established alpine destination. So are Munich/Garmisch-Partenkirchen and Oslo/Lillehamer. Those cities all have a lot more winter sports infrastructure and experience than Beijing does. Not to mention that Western Europe is overdue for the Olympics while East Asia is already getting back-to-back Olympics.

Beijing had to feat the other bids, not the other way around.

Compared to Almaty, Beijing's bid is strong. The IOC has already said that basically.

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Pyeongchang has no experience hosting international snow events and they won. IOC doesn't care about this experience. IOC doesn't care if a bid respect environment or local population. Beijing can win easily this race.

I'm curious if that's true.

Pyeongchang got 4.7-7.3 in Sporting experience for the 2010 bid race which was significantly increased to 8.0-9.0 for 2014. And Pyeongchang was a favorite for 2010 where it narrowly lost and again in 2014.

Not really a surprise they won.

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I'm curious if that's true.

Pyeongchang got 4.7-7.3 in Sporting experience for the 2010 bid race which was significantly increased to 8.0-9.0 for 2014. And Pyeongchang was a favorite for 2010 where it narrowly lost and again in 2014.

Not really a surprise they won.

PC was a favorite for 2010? Their first bid, following Beijing 2008? My recollection is that it caught a lot of people by surprise that they nearly won the vote in the first round. By 2014 and obviously 2018, then they had a better shot at pulling it off, but I think it would have been considered an upset if they won 2010.

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PC was a favorite for 2010? Their first bid, following Beijing 2008? My recollection is that it caught a lot of people by surprise that they nearly won the vote in the first round. By 2014 and obviously 2018, then they had a better shot at pulling it off, but I think it would have been considered an upset if they won 2010.

When they made the shortlist there were question marks for both PC and Bern. For Bern it was public support and funding, while for PC it was the fact that they had literally no winter sport infrastructure development in the proposed bidding region. I think Vancouver and Salzburg always had a pretty good shot at it.

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I'm curious if that's true.

Pyeongchang got 4.7-7.3 in Sporting experience for the 2010 bid race which was significantly increased to 8.0-9.0 for 2014. And Pyeongchang was a favorite for 2010 where it narrowly lost and again in 2014.

Not really a surprise they won.

Its not true. They hosted the Asian Winter Games (but only the alpine venue will be reused), and the biathlon worlds in 2009 (though there was a lack of snow and it was poorly attended).

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When they made the shortlist there were question marks for both PC and Bern. For Bern it was public support and funding, while for PC it was the fact that they had literally no winter sport infrastructure development in the proposed bidding region. I think Vancouver and Salzburg always had a pretty good shot at it.

Its not true. They hosted the Asian Winter Games (but only the alpine venue will be reused), and the biathlon worlds in 2009 (though there was a lack of snow and it was poorly attended).

Let's not forget.. the 2010 vote happened in 2003. The 2014 vote happened in 2007. So their Asian Winter Games happened before both of those. The World Championships in biathlon hadn't occurred before either vote.

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It still shows Beijing has more experience then Almaty does. The IOC has said Beijing is stronger then Almaty.

Then why even bother having Almaty in the race, then? Just hand it to fcking Beijing, IOC! They're giving Almaty a chance. They see a cinch of potential, so please Tony, why don't you try to look into and analyze how the visit is going over in Central Asia and at least try to view this in a different mindset. You'll learn more and you won't sound like a biased, repetitive... person... that spends an hour on these boards daily. We know the IOC has sem-slightly-ish, indirectly given Beijing the upperhand, no need to point it out every single time a discussion on Almaty v. Beijing pops up. You in no way are contributing by saying Beijing has more experience. The word "experience" alone pops up 12 times in the previous page.

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Could someone tell me what previous International Winter sports competition China hosted before?

Seriously, the Beining bid is all over China, they have little if no experience in Winter sports, we've had beijing 2008 (way too soon). To me, both bids have weaknesses, they're both very risky, but ouf of the two, I think Almaty should be hosting.

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Could someone tell me what previous International Winter sports competition China hosted before?

Seriously, the Beining bid is all over China, they have little if no experience in Winter sports, we've had beijing 2008 (way too soon). To me, both bids have weaknesses, they're both very risky, but ouf of the two, I think Almaty should be hosting.

Whatever the hell happened here, but I get your point

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How can I be biased? I think both bids have issues. But, Beijing has proven itself before, Almaty hasn't. China is the worlds most populated Country, Kazakhstan isn't. China's economy is bigger then Kazakhstan's. China has hosted the biggest multi-sport event in the world, Kazakhstan hasn't.

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