Tulsa Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 I think PC 2018 will be the worst WoG ever, but now I think Beijing 2022 or Almaty 2022 could be worst than PC... Asia and WoG are a no-sens excepted Japan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zekekelso Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 To me, both bids have weaknesses, they're both very risky, Risky, now? Both coutries have lots of money. Both are very stable. Whatever they lack in exerience the IOC and the sports ferderations will make up for. Where's the risk? I think PC 2018 will be the worst WoG ever, but now I think Beijing 2022 or Almaty 2022 could be worst than PC... Worse in what way? What do you think will happen that will be so bad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LatinXTC Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Risky, now? Both coutries have lots of money. Both are very stable. Whatever they lack in exerience the IOC and the sports ferderations will make up for. Where's the risk? Worse in what way? What do you think will happen that will be so bad? It'll be worse because it's not Annecy. When it comes to Pyeongchang 2018 his opinion doesn't mean s**t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulsa Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Worse in what way? What do you think will happen that will be so bad? They have never host a major winter events like Alpin ski, Freestyle ski, nordic ski, Bobsleig etc. They don't have popular fervor for winter sport. Beijing and Almaty are ones of the most polluted cities in the world. For the show it will be a disaster. You can't have this experience in 7 years. It'll be worse because it's not Annecy. When it comes to Pyeongchang 2018 his opinion doesn't mean s**t. Annecy doesn't bid for 2022 They could bid and they would probably win easily against these fake bids. Alpin countries are perfect host for winter sports, with a great ability to host major winter events... In Asia excepted Japan nobody has this experience and they don't have public fervor, It's a fact. PC try to host some Ski events and every time it was a disaster... like Freestyle ski two years ago, their tracks were too dangerous because they didn't have enough snow and they cancelled the competition... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phandrosis Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 China is the worlds most populated Country, Kazakhstan isn't. China's economy is bigger then Kazakhstan's. I don't see how either of these constitutes Beijing as an outright winner. First of all, the amount of people in these countries has nothing to do with whether they can host better games or not. It neither merits or devalues their bids. It's not like Kazakhstan's population is so small it can't fill its 35,000 seat stadium for ceremonies. The economy isn't a real player here either. In the past, countries with smaller economies have still beaten out bids from countries with larger economies. Even though the margin was small, Australia beat out China in 1993 with a GDP worth 128.5 billion less than China. If the IOC cared which developed country is a little more developed, we would have been in Beijing in 2000. But since they were in Sydney, I don't think that the mentality has or will have changed since then, so using the economies as a reason why Beijing has won already isn't super solid ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 ^Right, yet precisely those very reasons is what finally got China the 2008 Olympics & by a landslide. Their huge population & growing economy. If the economy wasn't a factor, then why do some here argue that very point when it comes to the U.S. bid for 2024: How much the U.S. "pays" in revenue deals, etc. And it's not a matter of filling up stadiums in smaller populations, but the huge markets of some of those other larger countries to buy into all the Olympic merchandise & brand. And seriously, comparing Australia to Kazahkstan is pretty much a joke. One is an Olympic powerhouse at the Summer Olympics, while the other isn't even on the radar at the Winter Olympics. Sydney is an iconic world-class city, while Almaty is well, just there. If this race was between just Kazakstan & the U.S. (instead of China), I'm sure you'd be singing a different tune then about the economy & population. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runningrings Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 It was Tiannamen Square massacre that was the reason Sydney got over the line in 1993, more so than any economic reason. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ofan Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 It was Tiannamen Square massacre that was the reason Sydney got over the line in 1993, more so than any economic reason. And the US Congress doing everything in their power to prevent them from hosting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LatinXTC Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 And the US Congress doing everything in their power to prevent them from hosting. What? Wait nevermind just read it. That's hilarious! Oh well Beijing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 What? Wait nevermind just read it. That's hilarious! Oh well Beijing! Yes, some parties in the US Congress (probably Republicans) made noise about China not being worthy of the Games. But it never really became a resolution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord David Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 ^Right, yet precisely those very reasons is what finally got China the 2008 Olympics & by a landslide. Their huge population & growing economy. If the economy wasn't a factor, then why do some here argue that very point when it comes to the U.S. bid for 2024: How much the U.S. "pays" in revenue deals, etc. And it's not a matter of filling up stadiums in smaller populations, but the huge markets of some of those other larger countries to buy into all the Olympic merchandise & brand. And seriously, comparing Australia to Kazahkstan is pretty much a joke. One is an Olympic powerhouse at the Summer Olympics, while the other isn't even on the radar at the Winter Olympics. Sydney is an iconic world-class city, while Almaty is well, just there. If this race was between just Kazakstan & the U.S. (instead of China), I'm sure you'd be singing a different tune then about the economy & population. If it were a race between Almaty and a US city, all it takes is for Sacha Baron Cohen to do Borat and get the Kazakhs all upset that they get the sympathy votes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony E Loves Architecture Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 The bidding for 2000 was based on politics. 2022 is not based on politics, just common sense that Beijing will host and not Almaty. Just like Tokyo beat Istanbul, because Istanbul was in denial, thinking they would host, when in real life, Istanbul was never going to host, same goes for Almaty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zekekelso Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 The bidding for 2000 was based on politics. 2022 is not based on politics,. All bidding is based on politics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony E Loves Architecture Posted February 18, 2015 Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 All bidding is based on politics. True, but some are more political then others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulsa Posted February 18, 2015 Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 True, but some are more political then others. True also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Throne Posted February 18, 2015 Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 Dude, do you talk like that in real life? Why does everyone of your posts sound like it's coming from an English professor? Should this, Ofan, be a formal complaint on your part, I most graciously submit that you desist from reading my posts. Good day to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulsa Posted February 18, 2015 Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 Is it possible to have some new potential bids for 2022 ? Almaty doesn't interest IOC and i'm sure China bid only to discover the winter bidding process not to win. All the European bid dropped and finally Beijing became the favorite without to do something. 2 times in Asia for WoG it's the first time and probably to much in a short time. IOC will lose a lot.... Can IOC ask to a new bid process or is too late ? Is it possible than China or Almaty say No ?Really I'm very disappointed with situation... Beijing is a no-sens for WoG, Almaty too risky, what's the solution ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quaker2001 Posted February 18, 2015 Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 Is it possible to have some new potential bids for 2022 ? Almaty doesn't interest IOC and i'm sure China bid only to discover the winter bidding process not to win. All the European bid dropped and finally Beijing became the favorite without to do something. 2 times in Asia for WoG it's the first time and probably to much in a short time. IOC will lose a lot.... Can IOC ask to a new bid process or is too late ? Is it possible than China or Almaty say No ? Really I'm very disappointed with situation... Beijing is a no-sens for WoG, Almaty too risky, what's the solution ? There's no good solution. It's been brought up before.. these cites/countries rejected the IOC, not the other way around. Where Sweden and Norway and Poland all told the IOC they weren't interested in bidding.. if the IOC were to re-open the bid process, why would things be different? Oslo was in a 3-way race they weren't likely to lose against Beijing and Almaty and they still dropped out. Clearly they're not interested with things as is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulsa Posted February 18, 2015 Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 Is it possible to IOC to say : "There is no good solution" but maybe we could comeback in Vancouver, Salt Lake City or Turin for 2022 ? (Russia with the Ukrainian war seems out.). Even China can build everything in a short time, it will be very expensive for ski venues (everybody will say it's too expensive again and 2026 will be the same scenario) and without legacy, the China market is too young. Almaty seems "more" traditional with more experience and venues but it's Kazakstan, not a very safe place for IOC and how it will be in 2022 ? IOC should show that they understand European cities, WoG became too expensive, too big and without control... Why not divided 2022 WoG between some European countries ? Ice events in Germany, Alpin Ski in Austria, Freestyle in Switzerland and Nordic ski in Germany too ? Really IOC is doing a big mistake with 2022. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quaker2001 Posted February 18, 2015 Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 Is it possible to IOC to say : "There is no good solution" but maybe we could comeback in Vancouver, Salt Lake City or Turin for 2022 ? (Russia with the Ukrainian war seems out.). Even China can build everything in a short time, it will be very expensive for ski venues (everybody will say it's too expensive again and 2026 will be the same scenario) and without legacy, the China market is too young. Almaty seems "more" traditional with more experience and venues but it's Kazakstan, not a very safe place for IOC and how it will be in 2022 ? IOC should show that they understand European cities, WoG became too expensive, too big and without control... Why not divided 2022 WoG between some European countries ? Ice events in Germany, Alpin Ski in Austria, Freestyle in Switzerland and Nordic ski in Germany too ? Really IOC is doing a big mistake with 2022. That's not fair to China or to Kazakhstan to essentially tell 1 or both of them that they're not worthy of hosting an Olympics and that they're so bad, they have to resort to a past host. Who's to say Vancouver or Salt Lake or Torino would even want another Olympics. Case in point for Italy.. the sliding track has since been shut down. So those might not be viable options. Beijing and Almaty are not appealing options, but they're still options. The IOC really has no good choice but to pick 1 of them rather than to tell them neither of them will be chosen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Almaty seems "more" traditional with more experience and venues but it's Kazakstan, not a very safe place for IOC and how it will be in 2022 ? I think this is the only time since you've been on these boards that I have ever come to agree with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ofan Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 Should this, Ofan, be a formal complaint on your part, I most graciously submit that you desist from reading my posts. Good day to you. Shut the fuckk up you fucking tool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikarus360 Posted February 28, 2015 Report Share Posted February 28, 2015 Yeah. Kazakhstan might have improved under Nazarbayev rule but the guy for what i read is the typical modern day dictator who uses rigged elections to make the rest of the naive world believe there is democracy there when there isn't. (I mean, he just moved the presidential elections to April when they were supossed to be held in late 2016). Also, read this and this specific part of his speech http://dunyanews.tv/index.php/en/World/263752-Nazarbayev-calls-early-April-26-election On February 11, in a speech to the government, Nazarbayev admitted that the republic was facing economic "difficulties," and that the government would need to cut spending for 2015-2017. He said that he did not expect a repeat of last year s shock devaluation of the national currency, which was slashed by almost a fifth overnight, despite low prices for crude oil and a weakened ruble in neighbouring Russia. It seems the country is not doing very well economicaly wise. What guarantee do we have of how they will be doing in 2022 if one of the main reasons was the weakening of the Ruble, specially when Russia seems to be as stubborn as a mule and won't change their ways about Ukraine anytime soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ofan Posted February 28, 2015 Report Share Posted February 28, 2015 The Kazakh constitution also says that Nazarbayev will be president for the rest of his life because he is the original leader of the country. After he dies there will apparently be term limits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony E Loves Architecture Posted February 28, 2015 Report Share Posted February 28, 2015 And just a few months ago, some people were saying Kazakhstan is a democracy. No way is Kazakhstan a democracy. Before anyone says anything, I know China isn't a democracy either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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