ofan Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 So did Sydney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p85 Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 Ok then, thanks for the explanation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony E Loves Architecture Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 I seriously can't see this Bid Winning. With the situation the IOC is in, I can't see the IOC taking a risk and going with Almaty 2022. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zekekelso Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 Places that will not host the 2022 Olympics: 1. Yamal 2. Kazakhstan 3. Lviv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p85 Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 This is from other thread but I'll put it here Can someone explain this? Cause if Almaty has worse air quality then Beijing then my whole argument against Beijing is out the window. It seems only Oslo has no problems with air quality: Almaty has really bad PM10 results and smog is a quite big problem there. I was a bit shocked seeing those pics: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woohooitsme83 Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 They can brand the smog as "rainbow smog" It sounds more happy and not-as-bad-as-smog-like. There, problem solved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jawnbc Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 Ha! They're toast. This gives the IOC reasons to reject them. I expect the IOC will give the Norwegians whatever they want to stay in the bid. With the trade unions now on board, there's little risk for politicians to advocate for the bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quaker2001 Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 So since it got brought up in the Beijing thread, let's ask it here.. For those of you who want to see Almaty win (not necessarily that you think they'll win, that's a different story altogether), tell us why? What is it about Almaty that intrigues you? Or is this still picking between a giant douche and a turd sandwich? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ofan Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 So since it got brought up in the Beijing thread, let's ask it here.. For those of you who want to see Almaty win (not necessarily that you think they'll win, that's a different story altogether), tell us why? What is it about Almaty that intrigues you? Or is this still picking between a giant douche and a turd sandwich? I'd just like to see us all get proven wrong, since we all seem so strongly focused on them losing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Rols Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 (edited) It seems to be one of those races that really polarise people like no other. It's not so much what people like most, but what they hate least - and people are just so vehement about the one they dislike. Yes, it is the douche versus the sh!t sandwich (I actually think that even if Oslo stays the distance now they're unelectable), but if I had my druthers, I'd go for Almaty. I could live with Almaty - a smaller country and a new frontier. Beijing I'm just stridently opposed to and turned off by - a huge authoritarian under-wintery megalopolis that's exactly the wrong sort of city that should be doing the WOGs if the IOC wants to drum up more interest in them. Edited September 15, 2014 by Sir Rols 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runningrings Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 It seems to be one of those races that really polarise people like no other. It's not so much what people like most, but what they hate least - and people are just so vehement about the one they dislike. Yes, it is the douche versus the sh!t sandwich (I actually think that even if Oslo stays the distance now they're unelectable), but if I had my druthers, I'd go for Almaty. I could live with Almaty - a smaller country and a new frontier. Beijing I'm just stridently opposed to and turned off by - a huge authoritarian under-wintery megalopolis that's exactly the wrong sort of city that should be doing the WOGs if the IOC wants to drum up more interest in them. This is probably the first Olympic race I can remember (ive been following since 2012 in 2005) where I really can't choose any of them - and I'd probably be satisfied with all three for different reasons. Rols - I understand your objection to Beijing, but I don't think going there would be a bad decision. I think your assessment of Beijing might be too firm. Almaty would be within an authoritarian society also - and given that a Chinese Winter Olympics is inevitable, and that they have chosen to go to Beijing and not Harbin or Jilin is their choice. Frankly - it is probably the more sensible choice for China - so why should they care how the world perceives it? Going somewhere like Harbin and Jilin would require huge investment in infrastructure (probably more than Beijing) whereas Beijing has the hotels, subways, and a raft of indoor venues. The ski resort is still an issue - but being in proximity to Beijing it could have legacy in a country with an ever growing interest in foreign sport and culture. I'd be happy with Beijing - my own objection is that a third consecutive East Asian Olympics might be a bit fatiguing, but I don't think it should be written off on this alone (lets not forget 1992, 1992 and 1994 - why can't Asia have the same?) In summary, I feel about the 2022 bidders: my nostalgia says Beijing (I was there in 2008, and I adore travelling in China), my heart says Almaty (I love a new frontier) and my brain says Oslo (safe, familiar, fun, reliable) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olympic Fan Darcy Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 So since it got brought up in the Beijing thread, let's ask it here.. For those of you who want to see Almaty win (not necessarily that you think they'll win, that's a different story altogether), tell us why? What is it about Almaty that intrigues you? Or is this still picking between a giant douche and a turd sandwich? Definitely agree with runningrings when he says that i'd probably be satisfied with any of them . I know I seem like one of the biggest Almaty supporters but it's mostly just because quite a few constantly trash the city and i'm not leaving it up to GCL to defend Almaty... I wouldn't mind seeing an Almaty olympics, it's not my favorite but a new frontier and yeah would be great as a "cop that" to those that hate the city so much. But I can't see them winning. Also wouldn't mind seeing Beijing host. Mostly because of the lack of time difference and also cheaper flights from here to China compared to say here to Rio. Also would love to check out the various attractions. And it would be pretty funny if they snuck in as the first city to host both summer and winter. And of course Oslo would be an awesome host city. 70 years since Norway hosted their first olympics. More then qualified. Just need to boost up that support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony E Loves Architecture Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 Definitely agree with runningrings when he says that i'd probably be satisfied with any of them . I know I seem like one of the biggest Almaty supporters but it's mostly just because quite a few constantly trash the city and i'm not leaving it up to GCL to defend Almaty... I wouldn't mind seeing an Almaty olympics, it's not my favorite but a new frontier and yeah would be great as a "cop that" to those that hate the city so much. But I can't see them winning. Also wouldn't mind seeing Beijing host. Mostly because of the lack of time difference and also cheaper flights from here to China compared to say here to Rio. Also would love to check out the various attractions. And it would be pretty funny if they snuck in as the first city to host both summer and winter. And of course Oslo would be an awesome host city. 70 years since Norway hosted their first olympics. More then qualified. Just need to boost up that support. A New Destination is Good, if they can deliver. I don't believe Almaty can deliver, neither does the IOC and neither do most of us here believe Almaty can deliver. With Beijing, we have seen Beijing can deliver. If Rio De Janeiro (New Destination) is struggling with Preparations for the 2016 Summer Olympics and Paralympics, what chance does Almaty have? I seriously don't understand why some are so obsessed with Almaty. We don't hate Almaty, we just know they aren't capable of Hosting and they have the weakest Bid. Beijing is far from Good, but they would be a much better Host then Almaty. Hopefully, Oslo stays in their and they boost up Public Support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zekekelso Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 I don't believe Almaty can deliver, neither does the IOC and neither do most of us here believe Almaty can deliver. . Actually Tony, by putting Almaty on the short list the IOC is explicitly saying Almaty can deliver. And while posters here have expressed negatives about an Almaty big, few if any have said they can't deliver . State your opinions all you want. But don't pretend other people agree with you, especially when they don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quaker2001 Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 A New Destination is Good, if they can deliver. I don't believe Almaty can deliver, neither does the IOC and neither do most of us here believe Almaty can deliver. With Beijing, we have seen Beijing can deliver. If Rio De Janeiro (New Destination) is struggling with Preparations for the 2016 Summer Olympics and Paralympics, what chance does Almaty have? I seriously don't understand why some are so obsessed with Almaty. We don't hate Almaty, we just know they aren't capable of Hosting and they have the weakest Bid. Beijing is far from Good, but they would be a much better Host then Almaty. Hopefully, Oslo stays in their and they boost up Public Support. Don't speak for "we" here, Tony. There's a difference between not being capable of hosting and not believing a city will get elected. Not to speak for others here, although I'll echo Darcy's thought somewhat.. the negativity I have towards Almaty is that I simply don't see the IOC choosing them over Beijing. That's not an indictment against them that they are unable to put on a Winter Olympics. I remember when Sochi was selected back in 2007 and was intrigued somewhat by the notion of a fairly unknown city in a large country hosting the games. And we heard plenty about Sochi, both good and bad, in the lead up to the Olympics. But I feel like now, the city of Sochi and everything the Olympics was supposed to do for them has largely been forgotten. As if they were just a blip in history. That's not what an Olympics is supposed to be, IMO. So I look at an Almaty Olympics, not necessarily in terms of costs or any cultural or geographical similarities, as being the same, if not worse. We'd be talking up Kazakhstan in the lead up to the games and then 5 minutes later we'd forget all about them. At least with Beijing, there's a chance their Olympics will give us something to remember rather than almost immediately fading into history 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intoronto Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 Actually Tony, by putting Almaty on the short list the IOC is explicitly saying Almaty can deliver. And while posters here have expressed negatives about an Almaty big, few if any have said they can't deliver . State your opinions all you want. But don't pretend other people agree with you, especially when they don't. The IOC knew Oslo might drop out. By cutting Almaty, this could have defaulted the win to Beijing without a vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 Not to speak for others here, although I'll echo Darcy's thought somewhat.. the negativity I have towards Almaty is that I simply don't see the IOC choosing them over Beijing. That's not an indictment against them that they are unable to put on a Winter Olympics. Yeah, but he uses the word "trashing", which is such total BS. Especially when he's done the same type of 'trashing' against Beijjng. Highlighting some weaknesses & facts against is doing no such thing. And let's face it, while theoretically, being included on a short-list is indicative of being able to deliver the goods (as someone earlier eluded to), the fact that the IOC had no other options to chose from, & still included them anyway, despite their very poor marks, only really highlights what rough seas the IOC is going through with this race. With Oslo perhaps being on the verge of pulling out, the IOC most likely didn't want Beijing being the sole bid left standing, so that's why they decided to just pick the three remaining bids. I remember for the 2008 short-list, when Istanbul was included, despite them just barely touching the benchmark, with legs stretched, & it was believed that it was done so, so it wouldn't appear that Beijing's bid was last from a technical standpoint. Bcuz without Istanbul there, it would have. But no one still (other than a couple of bias Turks here at the time) thought that Istanbul could've won. Like you, I don't see the IOC choosing Almaty over Beijing. The only way I could see Almaty getting this, is if Oslo pulls out, & somehow the Chinese shoot themselves in the foot (which by then, what kind of a win is that, besides not much of one. And I'd say the IOC would have a tough go with an Almaty winter games if it did turn out that way). But otherwise, I don't see the IOC snubbing the Chinese simply for the sake of a going to an obscure "new destination". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athensfan Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 I will be disappointed no matter who hosts. I don't "hate" any of the bids. Oddly enough, I would probably be most upset if Oslo won. It's by far the most appealing locale, but THE PEOPLE DON'T WANT THE GAMES. It would be flat out wrong for the IOC and the Norwegian government to ram the Olympics down their throats. Both Beijing and Almaty are dismal options. If I were voting, I'd just pick the bid whose team seemed easiest to work with. That's something we can't know from a distance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ofan Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 Does anyone think that TV will play a role in Almaty vs. Beijing? The western networks may try to sway towards a more reasonable time zone. Or are the time zones too similar for it to even matter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athensfan Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 Does anyone think that TV will play a role in Almaty vs. Beijing? The western networks may try to sway towards a more reasonable time zone. Or are the time zones too similar for it to even matter? It's a non-factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quaker2001 Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 Does anyone think that TV will play a role in Almaty vs. Beijing? The western networks may try to sway towards a more reasonable time zone. Or are the time zones too similar for it to even matter? Almaty and Beijing are separated by 2 time zones. Since neither country observes daylight savings time, during the Winter, Almaty is 11 hours ahead of New York/Toronto and Beijing is 13 hours ahead. If anything, Beijing is the more friendly time zone because 8pm on the East coast of North America is 9am in Beijing (7am in Almaty). It would allow for plenty of live coverage in primetime, just like I'm sure we'll see with PC in 2018. So while I agree with Athens that it's a non-factor, if it was a factor, it's more a positive for Beijing than for Almaty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zekekelso Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 I will be disappointed no matter who hosts. I don't "hate" any of the bids. Oddly enough, I would probably be most upset if Oslo won. It's by far the most appealing locale, but THE PEOPLE DON'T WANT THE GAMES. It would be flat out wrong for the IOC and the Norwegian government to ram the Olympics down their throats. The problem with this logic is you presume the people of China and Kazahkstan do want the games. In countries without free press and speech, who knows what the people want, or even understand. At least with Norway, the people are informed and have the opportunity to protest. Much better in my book. Although much of the TV money still comes from the US, the IOC also cares a lot about Europe and Asia. Norway is in a terrible time zone for the US, but a good timezone for Europe and Asia. Beijing is in a terribel time zone for Europe, but a good time zone for East Asia and a not-terrible time zone for the US. In the end, it kinda balances out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony E Loves Architecture Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 Actually Tony, by putting Almaty on the short list the IOC is explicitly saying Almaty can deliver. And while posters here have expressed negatives about an Almaty big, few if any have said they can't deliver . State your opinions all you want. But don't pretend other people agree with you, especially when they don't. They only got onto the shortlist because there is only 3 Candidates left, just like Annecy only got onto the 2018 Candidate List because there were only 3 Candidates. If Stockholm and Krakow hadn't withdrawn and if Munich and a Switzerland Bid had Bidded, Almaty wouldn't have made it as a Candidate City. Most people support Oslo or Beijing over Almaty on these Forums, only People who can't see reality keep on supporting Almaty 2022. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intoronto Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 For the sake of my sleep I hope for 2024 to go to somewhere reasonable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ofan Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 For the sake of my sleep I hope for 2024 to go to somewhere reasonable Well, to be fair, at least we're going to get some Primetime stuff in 2018 and 2020 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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