Lord David Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 NOT gonna happen - and because as explained previously, how do you explain the 'switcheroo' in the Opening to the Russian domestic audience? Too much defensive explaining to do if they did a Vancouver-type thing. The Vancouver 'save' I think will only have happened for Vancouver. Sochi will not dwell on its one little glitch. Vancouver's was a far bigger black-eye which...to use a pun...cried for some sort of 'tongue-in-cheek- redo because it was supposed to be the climax of their show; and it failed grandly. Sochi's faux pax is such a negligible glitch which only GB-ders dwell upon and like to spin tales about for lack of anything else substantial to say about the show. As I noted before, surely the ceremony was shown live to Russian audiences, only to be edited for news reports later. So most of them must have seen the glitch once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juso Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 I agree torchbearer it was not the same sort of glitch as vancouver, it was not really as significant a failure and they don't need to glorify the glitch by changing all the snowflakes into rings (sydney had the aforementioned similar issue in the firework eternity sequence - that did work correctly in the dress rehearsal as well like sochi). This is why I think it would be funnier and in lighthearted tradition of great CC's for them to have all five snowflakes but this time only have the one that glitched open, i think it come across to all as deliberate and would help diffuse the overreaction twitter storm of the glitch. Maybe even putin kicking some box on the stadium floor, getting frustrated and walking off. Okay that may never happen, but if I was ceremonies director, I would do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juso Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 Also baron, I really disagree with you. While vancouver glitch was more obvious than the sydney lighting because there were clearly four lighters, more obvious delay/music looping and only three legs to light, it was less impacting as a glitch because no one really knew what the cauldron was supposed to look like, it was not making a known shape or symbol, it just looked lobsided from certain camera angles and then we saw the main cauldron of how it was supposed to look. In Vancouver, the closing ceremony rounded out the honour for the fourth lighter very nicely and was in great taste. The sochi glitch while minor, was a glitch on the most recognised logo/symbol in world. Everyone and anyone knew it was wrong and it can be sent viral in images and animation and the error is clear. I could send as many photos of the three legged cauldron as I like, and people would just say, 'olympic cauldron' ok - some might pick it, others won't. The only way a cauldron glitch would be as universally obvious would be if a cauldron didn't light at all or went out. I say universally obvious though, I don't if it is the worst glitch, that could be vacouver.. but this snowflake unfortunately IMHO is the most obvious glitch. meant to read: 'it was less impacting as a glitch than the sochi rings because"..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TorchbearerSydney Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 The Sochi glitch was the worst.... . A cauldron could have 4 legs, 3 legs, in Vancouver even just the central flame would have been OK.. A cauldron can rise up to its position in 1 minute or 4 minutes (Sydney)..no harm done. BUT...the Olympic symbol HAS 5 Rings ... always Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 (edited) So most of them must have seen the glitch once. How do you know that? It is a fact that the Russian TV directors quickly switched to the rehearsal tape for the domestic audience. Are you also in denial now?? What about for people who tuned in late (like me, for the live streaming)? I didn't see that until the evening US broadcast. Latecomers in Russia would also NOT have seen it. Not everybody does repeat viewing of the Ceremonies as ceremony geeks here do. Also baron, I really disagree with you. While vancouver glitch was more obvious than the sydney lighting because there were clearly four lighters, more obvious delay/music looping and only three legs to light, it was less impacting as a glitch because no one really knew what the cauldron was supposed to look like, it was not making a known shape or symbol, it just looked lobsided from certain camera angles and then we saw the main cauldron of how it was supposed to look. In Vancouver, the closing ceremony rounded out the honour for the fourth lighter very nicely and was in great taste. The sochi glitch while minor, was a glitch on the most recognised logo/symbol in world. Everyone and anyone knew it was wrong and it can be sent viral in images and animation and the error is clear. I could send as many photos of the three legged cauldron as I like, and people would just say, 'olympic cauldron' ok - some might pick it, others won't. The only way a cauldron glitch would be as universally obvious would be if a cauldron didn't light at all or went out. I say universally obvious though, I don't if it is the worst glitch, that could be vacouver.. but this snowflake unfortunately IMHO is the most obvious glitch. meant to read: 'it was less impacting as a glitch than the sochi rings because"..... Oh really? I dunno -- why was Catrina Le May-Doane standing there then w/ torch in hand? Just to look pretty? The trap door of the malfunctioning leg also partially tried to open and they (all the torchbearers who were caught on camera) were looking at the pit. Are you telling me now that not one person in the billions watching the ceremony did NOT notice the strangeness of the moment??? And that even when they saw the 4-legged one outside NOT put 2 & 2 together? Are you saying that the 'save' at the Closing was just something unrelated to something that did NOT happen at the Opening? How strange. Further, the magnificence of the rest of the Sochi OC more than made up for the small glitch whereas Vancouver's came at their indoor climax. It's the impact of the moment and its place in the show. The Sochi glitch really is a tempest in a teapot IMHO. Edited February 18, 2014 by baron-pierreIV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotguy Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 And I also agree with others that Vancouver cauldron fail was a far worse failure than the ring fail and that everyone just likes Sochi-bashing. They do deserve some stick for what they have done (Anti-Gay laws, slack security and shabby venues) but not the whole "this game it's gonna be a fail" mindset purely based on political views. Slack security? if you wana mention slack security lets not forget Munich and Atlanta, now thats slack security - ive not heard of any security problems at Sochi, anyone? Shabby venues? Are you sure you are watching the winter olympics and not the queenstown schools winter champs lol - these venues are world class and visually stunningy You speak of Sochi bashing - yet here it is in these comments 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juso Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 Oh really? I dunno why was Catrina Le May-Doane standing there then w/ torch in hand? Just to look pretty? The trap door of the malfunctioning leg also partially tried to open and they (all the torchbearers who were caught on camera) were looking at the pit. Are you telling me now that not one person in the billions watching the ceremony did NOT notice the strangeness of the moment??? And that even when they saw the 4-legged one outside NOT put 2 & 2 together? Are you saying that the 'save' at the Closing was just something unrelated to something that did NOT happen at the Opening? How strange. Baron, I would Like to think I am usually very measured in my posts, even if they are full of typos lately. Please re-read my post, I never said it was not obvious on the broadcast, I even said that the glitch in vancouver was more obvious compared to sydney because there were four lighters and three legs: While vancouver glitch was more obvious than the sydney lighting because there were clearly four lighters, more obvious delay/music looping and only three legs to light No one is suggesting that anyone who watched the ceremony did not notice the probelm, especially with gretsky's horrible poker face in comparison to cathy freeman's. I simply said that because it was not known what the cauldron should look like, seeing a photo of the three legged cauldron does not show an obvious problem in the same way a photo of 4 rings open on the most famous symbol in the world shows. I even qualified the glitch was probably worse in vancouver than sochi, but this error has more reach beyond those who watch ceremonies, as it can be immediately obvious that there was a massive problem. Clearly Vancouver is very obvious if you watch the footage, but not in the same prolific and symbolic way the sochi glitch is. For the record, I am not sochi bashing either, I have said before and again now that the sochi OC was very very well executed. I actually think the snow flake to ring is the most impressive rings since athens, it just didn't work. The olympic rings are the olympic rings anyone and everyone know when they are wrong. On athens, if one ring failed to light on the pool of water, or one ring failed to be forged in london there would be just as much glitch fallout as sochi..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 /\/\ OK, Juso; I misread you then. ON 'longish' posts, of which yours was starting to verge on, I just peruse them really quickly. Noted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 that dumb pole in the middle ruined it for me oh and the missing leg, but im sure no one even noticed due to those incredibly clever camera angles 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juso Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 I agree the pole was annoying on the stadium cauldron, and doubling back slightly in defence of baron, if this picture went around in canada, everyone would know it was refering to the missing leg, but again it is not as universal as the sochi rings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runningrings Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 that dumb pole in the middle ruined it for me oh and the missing leg, but im sure no one even noticed due to those incredibly clever camera angles Even without the fault - you can't deny that this is the most ridiculous looking cauldron since Atlanta's scaffolding. The Vancouver 2010 cauldron is an abject lesson as to why LESS IS MORE. 'Keep it simple, stupid.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TorchbearerSydney Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 A missing 'leg' would have made it appropriate for the Paralympics!!!! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Rols Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 A missing 'leg' would have made it appropriate for the Paralympics!!!! Oh so wrong, but oh so funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juso Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 I would probably have to agree runningrings, but interestingly in a recent CBC interview with John Furlong it seems that the ice sculpture coming from the floor was actually what david atkins used to sell his services to VANOC. I think it was a bit odd, though i did not mind the main cauldron and its campfire look. We have to remember that they had the issue of being the first indoor cauldron in a highly volatile positive pressure stadium, they needed something that worked well from the centre stage and more conventional cauldron may have looked odd. London I think did a more aesthetically attractive central cauldron though. I wonder if this original design for sydney 2000 david worked with ric birch on was inspiration for this: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Rols Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 I wonder if this original design for sydney 2000 david worked with ric birch on was inspiration for this: OooooH! I've never seen that or heard about it! Do you have any links about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juso Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 I actually think birch kind of modified this idea for torino, albiet perhaps more elegantly: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juso Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 OooooH! I've never seen that or heard about it! Do you have any links about it? Rols its part of the Powerhouse museum collection http://www.powerhousemuseum.com/collection/database/?irn=502594 It is referenced to be created by bang design, but I understand each submission for the cauldron was mentored by birch, interestingly we know that birch's required waterproofing of the north stand for the chosen cauldron design was part of the early designs for stadium australia, so I dont know if these other cauldron designs really had a chance if they were produced in 1998 (the stadium was finished in 1999). Its not a bad design but probably would have had to sit lower in the stands on permanent stage with pool, a bit like rio2007 and same games time position as the london cauldron. For this reason I am happy they went for something that would be visible outside the stadium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juso Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 Sorry if it is a bit off topic for this thread, but for anyone who is interested, there are few interesting things in the powerhouse museums digital sydney 2000 collection including some draft torch designs and the torch that was modified for spaceflight on the shuttle. http://www.powerhousemuseum.com/collection/database/collection=Sydney_2000_Olympic_and_Paralympic_Games My last post for a while, to clarify it appears that the design above may have only been a design for the community cauldron not stadium cauldron, though, I did see information proposing this for the stadium somewhere out there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor Mata Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 A missing 'leg' would have made it appropriate for the Paralympics!!!! You're so going to hell for that, won't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord David Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 It's not really quantity but quality. They threw in everything including the kitchen sink in London; Sochi was a more leavened, concentrated show...of 'less is more' and a simpler, easy to understand narrative. I slightly disagree with London. If London indeed threw everything including the kitchen sink, then it would have been a 3 hour long reminder on what Great Britain and England have given the world (and don't you forget it), which would have extended from TV, movies and music.. Sochi made good efforts to remind people Russia's proper achievements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzl Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 But how is that an 'unforgivable' similarity? If they want to refer to the rings at the closing ceremony - then so be it. Let them. It's not like VANOC has some kind of intellectual copywrite - and how is that any different to any other cultural performance which has borrowed elements from other events. Some might say its copying Vancouver - but as it was a mistake in the first place, I don't see how that is so horrifying to laugh at it again down the track----- This is exactly what the Closing Ceremony is about, it is a light hearted review of the previous two weeks. Slack security and shabby venues - are you serious? What exactly are you referring to? I am one of these people who have been hard on Sochi for political reasons, but I don't exactly think the venues are shabby or there is slack security. I think the design elements of some of the venues leave a lot to be desired, but overall Sochi has spent big on all kinds of infrastructure - and it shows. Also baron, I really disagree with you. While vancouver glitch was more obvious than the sydney lighting because there were clearly four lighters, more obvious delay/music looping and only three legs to light, it was less impacting as a glitch because no one really knew what the cauldron was supposed to look like, it was not making a known shape or symbol, it just looked lobsided from certain camera angles and then we saw the main cauldron of how it was supposed to look. In Vancouver, the closing ceremony rounded out the honour for the fourth lighter very nicely and was in great taste. The sochi glitch while minor, was a glitch on the most recognised logo/symbol in world. Everyone and anyone knew it was wrong and it can be sent viral in images and animation and the error is clear. I could send as many photos of the three legged cauldron as I like, and people would just say, 'olympic cauldron' ok - some might pick it, others won't. The only way a cauldron glitch would be as universally obvious would be if a cauldron didn't light at all or went out. I say universally obvious though, I don't if it is the worst glitch, that could be vacouver.. but this snowflake unfortunately IMHO is the most obvious glitch. meant to read: 'it was less impacting as a glitch than the sochi rings because"..... Slack security? if you wana mention slack security lets not forget Munich and Atlanta, now thats slack security - ive not heard of any security problems at Sochi, anyone? Shabby venues? Are you sure you are watching the winter olympics and not the queenstown schools winter champs lol - these venues are world class and visually stunningy You speak of Sochi bashing - yet here it is in these comments Baron, I would Like to think I am usually very measured in my posts, even if they are full of typos lately. Please re-read my post, I never said it was not obvious on the broadcast, I even said that the glitch in vancouver was more obvious compared to sydney because there were four lighters and three legs: While vancouver glitch was more obvious than the sydney lighting because there were clearly four lighters, more obvious delay/music looping and only three legs to light No one is suggesting that anyone who watched the ceremony did not notice the probelm, especially with gretsky's horrible poker face in comparison to cathy freeman's. I simply said that because it was not known what the cauldron should look like, seeing a photo of the three legged cauldron does not show an obvious problem in the same way a photo of 4 rings open on the most famous symbol in the world shows. I even qualified the glitch was probably worse in vancouver than sochi, but this error has more reach beyond those who watch ceremonies, as it can be immediately obvious that there was a massive problem. Clearly Vancouver is very obvious if you watch the footage, but not in the same prolific and symbolic way the sochi glitch is. For the record, I am not sochi bashing either, I have said before and again now that the sochi OC was very very well executed. I actually think the snow flake to ring is the most impressive rings since athens, it just didn't work. The olympic rings are the olympic rings anyone and everyone know when they are wrong. On athens, if one ring failed to light on the pool of water, or one ring failed to be forged in london there would be just as much glitch fallout as sochi..... OK, about the shabby venues, the bathrooms in some venues contain two toilets and a toilet paper only accessible when you stand up, there Olympic Park looks like a car park, Fisht looks unfinished and covered in corrugated iron, none of the hotels are finished and there were reports of one of the tracks for a new event being off and causing injury to athletes. Now for slack security, they have ramped up security now but before the games they were acting as if they were untouchable, not working with anyone and ignoring safety concerns. And honestly if we are judging (as you are sugesting) just by the impact of photo's you can't tell me this: which if we have no prior knowledge of (as you are suggesting) could just be a delay is worse than this which is so obviously lopsided it couldn't be design. And I do think any kind of skit would be too close to Vancouver to be passable. It would just make the list of things similar to past games even longer. What they need in the CC is something uniquely Russian that also hasn't been done before. If they did a display of Russian music across the generation (i.e. London) I would literally rage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzl Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 BTW- The reason I am saying you have you have to be viewing the image with no prior knowledge is that if you knew the slightest about Vancouver's fail you would know about the fourth leg. But you are pretending that someone has only looked at both images and nothing more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotguy Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 OK, about the shabby venues, the bathrooms in some venues contain two toilets and a toilet paper only accessible when you stand up, there Olympic Park looks like a car park, Fisht looks unfinished and covered in corrugated iron, none of the hotels are finished and there were reports of one of the tracks for a new event being off and causing injury to athletes. Now for slack security, they have ramped up security now but before the games they were acting as if they were untouchable, not working with anyone and ignoring safety concerns. Utter dribble 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzl Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 Utter dribble Please elaborate... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotguy Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 The venues are fine, you say NONE of the hotels are finished, well this is just pure lies, yeah some were unfinished but a small percentage Security was looked at and increased after the bombings a few weeks before, so how can you say that they are ignoring safety concerns. The track that was causing the injuries was remodeled and is now fine. So what you are saying is 'utter dribble' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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