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baron-pierreIV

Should Turkey bid again?

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http://www.albawaba.com/business/olympics-2020-istanbul-521530

I remember reading a similar point of view in Arabic as well.

I hope the IOC starts caring about the historical heritage of the host cities. I think it would sound horrible if the answer to "what happen to that 1000-year-old Byzantine/500-year old Ottoman structure?" would be "it was replaced by an Olympic venue!"

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http://www.albawaba.com/business/olympics-2020-istanbul-521530

I remember reading a similar point of view in Arabic as well.

I hope the IOC starts caring about the historical heritage of the host cities. I think it would sound horrible if the answer to "what happen to that 1000-year-old Byzantine/500-year old Ottoman structure?" would be "it was replaced by an Olympic venue!"

But the Olympics are older than the Byzantine or Ottoman empire. They began in 776 BCE. So it's OK if a B-O site has been replaced by an Olympic venue. It's older!!

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But the Olympics are older than the Byzantine or Ottoman empire. They began in 776 BCE. So it's OK if a B-O site has been replaced by an Olympic venue. It's older!!

The brand (Olympics) is older, not the product (new venues).

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I'm confident about Turkey's chances in 2024. I don't think they would be denied the Olympics once again. Other strong candidates would be the USA and South Africa. But I think the Olympics can wait for four years to get to the USA and South Africa has already lost their post-World Cup momentum.

I think 2024 games are Turkey's to lose. But they must not have issues like the demonstrations this year or doping scandals.

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I don't think they would be denied the Olympics once again.

Five defeats, six defeats, what's the difference? Istanbul is not somewhere the IOC has shown much interest in when it comes down to it. If they want to keep bidding that's up to them but they can't simply believe the IOC will reward persistence (if nothing else, what message does that send to other cities; 'bid five or six times and we might give it to you!').

Nah, the IOC can easily overlook Istanbul again.

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I'm confident about Turkey's chances in 2024. I don't think they would be denied the Olympics once again. Other strong candidates would be the USA and South Africa. But I think the Olympics can wait for four years to get to the USA and South Africa has already lost their post-World Cup momentum.

I think 2024 games are Turkey's to lose. But they must not have issues like the demonstrations this year or doping scandals.

I strongly disagree with this. 2024 does not look at all promising for Istanbul. Africa, a traditional European host and the United States all have stronger claims. Why would the IOC choose Istanbul? I honestly think they need to wait until the 30s before trying again.

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I'm confident about Turkey's chances in 2024. I don't think they would be denied the Olympics once again. Other strong candidates would be the USA and South Africa. But I think the Olympics can wait for four years to get to the USA and South Africa has already lost their post-World Cup momentum.

I think 2024 games are Turkey's to lose. But they must not have issues like the demonstrations this year or doping scandals.

First of all, this line of "I don't think they would be denied the Olympics once again" was heard before... Oh yeah, Madrid said that. They said: "Oh this is our third consecutive time" "We came so close last race" and "We can't deny us", and you saw that, not only Madrid was defeated, but also they were the first losers. Again Buenos Aires lost 5 times, Budapest 4 times and Detroit 7 times...

Second, you said South Africa lost their post-World Cup, according to what or which reasons? Who said that? South Africa has the advantage of being the ONLY potential contender of the LAST continent without a SOG. The point will be when and how will they make it. The World Cup was a test and they were succesful. They only need a proper technical bid because the narrative is there.

I don't say Istanbul won't win, but again - What are the reason of Istanbul being the favorite in 2024? You only say your preference but not reasonable arguments of that.

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I think there is a big difference between Madrid and Istanbul. Istanbul has the weight of an entire culture behind it - even after Tokyo won 2020 some of the biggest points was the failure of the IOC to award the Games to a predominately Islamic country. I understand the reasons that Istanbul was not appropriate for 2020 (Syria was potentially facing a flashpoint several months back) which all but killed the bids chance. Erdogan's pig headedness didn't help either.

I think Istanbul should only proceed with a bid for 2024 if Paris doens't bid. It might have a chance against newbie Durban and any North American city. It would certainly be a frontrunner with a tweaked bid.

Despite 2020 being the 5th Istanbul Olympic bid - I'd say it was the first time that the city was not in the shadow of a bigger bid (Beijing, Rio, etc.)

Against potential cities like LA, Toronto, Milan and Durban I think it would have an good chance of success.

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Despite 2020 being the 5th Istanbul Olympic bid - I'd say it was the first time that the city was not in the shadow of a bigger bid (Beijing, Rio, etc.)

Against potential cities like LA, Toronto, Milan and Durban I think it would have an good chance of success.

Against this type of line-up though, Istanbul would be again in the shadow of a bigger bid, Durban. In that kind of line up, I'd say the appeal of an entire continent is going to be bigger than one of a culture. When many said that 2020 was Istanbul best chance to date they weren't kidding.

I'd say not only Paris, but if Durban also doesn't bid, then Istanbul should. Without any more conflicts with their bid & another field of not that many compelling candidates, Istanbul could finally take it.

I think 2024 games are Turkey's to lose. But they must not have issues like the demonstrations this year or doping scandals.

Then it's not really theirs to lose.

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I think Istanbul would certainly have an edge over LA or Toronto. But thoughts on Durban were more that it is still unchartered and less scrutinised - at least with Istanbul the IOC knows the challenges. We don't know yet what potential issues a Durban bid could present (although I'm confident there won't be many).

What could be of help to Istanbul over Durban could be there persistence, the Islamic culture (perhaps just nudging out Africa), its position as Europe's largest city --- coupled with 2024 being "time" for Europe. If there is no Paris bid for 2024 - Istanbul could be all that stands in between Europe's longest ever SOG drought, potentially from 2012 to 2028.

Just as I'm stewing over this now, I have a sneaking feeling we could see a Moscow 2024 bid. I hope to god, in that case, Istanbul is present - they would provide a great buffer between Africa, the US and Russia.

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Honestly, even if Moscow bids, I don't see the IOC voting for them after all the headaches Sochi and the Duma's gay propaganda has given them lately. And enough high-ranking IOCers came out during the presidential campaign saying that such issues must be considered when voting on future bids. I think Sochi will have to satisfy the Russkis for a little while yet.

Back to topic - I sure don't think Istanbul has any great advantage over any particular competitor leading up to the 2014 race. It's not like doping, political unerst and civil war in their neighbours were their only achille's heel - so many people noted (as did their eval report) that there's lots of technical issues they'd need to improve upon in terms of transport and infrastructure as well. I'd certainly agree with the general consensus here that Durban and Paris would both have an edge over them, and I wouldn't rate them as sure things over a North American bid either. Not saying they wouldn't have a chance - as we saw in the past race, anything could happen. But to rate them as a strong contender is gilding the lily a fair bit IMO.

Edited by Sir Rols
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If Paris doesn't bid, there still could be Rome & maybe even Berlin too (if there's no Munich 2022 of course).

And I can't help but find a contradiction when you say "it's time for Europe" while at the same time trying to promote a "new culture". Well, I don't see how that helps when Europe has hosted the most Olympics than any other continent.

And as far as a Durban bid goes, we've at least seen South Africa host a successful World Cup. South Africa also bid for the Olympics once before, too. Durban has also catered to one of the IOC's prestiges meetings. Not to mention how many senior IOC officials have mentioned that a Games in Africa should be on the agenda at some point.

And to be quite honest, if push came to shove, IDK how likely Istanbul would make the short-list in a busy 2024 applicant line-up, with one of those being the "final frontier" bid. It could be 2012 all over again for Istanbul, even though for 2008 they went to candidate stage.

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The way things are going, it's more likely that Turkey will be a de facto province of Iran in 2024 than Istanbul hosting the Olympics in 2024...:(

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The way things are going, it's more likely that Turkey will be a de facto province of Iran in 2024 than Istanbul hosting the Olympics in 2024... :(

What's happening to Turkey and Iran?

Anyway,Turkey should bid in the future but not for 2024.It sounds absolutely reckless.

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The way things are going, it's more likely that Turkey will be a de facto province of Iran in 2024 than Istanbul hosting the Olympics in 2024... :(

:blink:

Uh, totally disagree.

And I can't help but find a contradiction when you say "it's time for Europe" while at the same time trying to promote a "new culture". Well, I don't see how that helps when Europe has hosted the most Olympics than any other continent.

That is a contradiction, but in all fairness the contradiction may exist in the IOC as well. There are probably quite a few members who would like to see European Olympics as well as "new cultures." Asia is already quite well taken care of between 2008, 2018 and 2020. It's North America that's getting left out in the cold.

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The way things are going, it's more likely that Turkey will be a de facto province of Iran in 2024 than Istanbul hosting the Olympics in 2024... :(

This only demonstrates how much people wildly misunderstand the geopolitics of this region. It is actually like saying Germany will be invaded by the Ukraine.

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Istanbul's chances for 2024 revolve around how the IOC would view an Istanbul bid (i.e. a European bid) in which case they could make another strong case. The problem lies in the competition especially from Durban and South Africa. I don't see a U.S. bid as much of an obstacle as it looks as though 2024 is set for either Europe or Africa with whichever continent is the likely front runner for 2028. In any case, if and when Istanbul decides to bid again one of the changes they need to make is ditch the temporary Bosphorous Stadium and hold the ceremonies at Ataturk Stadium. I get the scenic view argument but it was not close enough to the Olympic Village and the idea of a temporary 80,000 seat stadium just for ceremonies when you have one nearly equal to that size with an athletics track is ridiculous.

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I think a new Turkish bid is a very needed thing for olympism at the moment, and definitely the most thrilling idea. Even more than a bid from North Am, as much as I like US I wouldn't fail to support it in case it happens, just like I backed Istanbul 2020 over Madrid and even Tokyo. I know about all the challenges, but challenges are there to be solved. Coubertin himseld said challenges, once they got overcome, produced a better result than a situation that brought no challenge in the beginning. Games at the very heart of what I call the New Orient (the french language refers to the Islamic world by "Orient"...unlike in English), with its colours, enthusiasm, refinement and modernity would be almost dream-like.


as much as I like US

...+ Canada.

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Turkey is a country that should be regarded as an example by the rest of the Islamic world. And even so, as an inspiration for several country of the old world in many aspects. They demonstrated passion for olympism. In Buenos Aires, like no time before,they demonstrated skills and abilities. There are challenges, they got the energy. It's time to reward them.

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I just don't see Istanbul 2024. It doesn't offer enough contrast to Tokyo. It's not "western" enough. Paris is. The USA is. Istanbul still "feels eastern." I'd be shocked if Istanbul hosted in 2024.

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I just don't see Istanbul 2024. It doesn't offer enough contrast to Tokyo. It's not "western" enough. Paris is. The USA is. Istanbul still "feels eastern." I'd be shocked if Istanbul hosted in 2024.

Hmm I do not see the world as a division between two sides, eastern and western. Is it because of the generation I belong to ? I don't know. Rather, I see it as multitude of different and varied cultures and groups, all with a different identity and different interests. And in that respect, I can hardly think of a culture that's more different to the Japanese identity than the Turkish one.

This vision of things, though I understand it, brings problems and I wouldn't use to look at things. Where would you classify Rio for instance ? Eastern or Western ? It's definitely not eastern obviously but I dont think it is traditionally western either. It's just Brazil. Just like Turkey's just Turkey.

Paris ? The sheer idea of it bores me completely. Boston or any other US ? Why not but then again, not half as thrilling as Istanbul to me. I wouldnt be shocked if Istanbul hosted in 2024, but once more it's just an opinion (and a wish).

I still do get your point. We'll see.

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Hmm I do not see the world as a division between two sides, eastern and western. Is it because of the generation I belong to ? I don't know. Rather, I see it as multitude of different and varied cultures and groups, all with a different identity and different interests. And in that respect, I can hardly think of a culture that's more different to the Japanese identity than the Turkish one.

This vision of things, though I understand it, brings problems and I wouldn't use to look at things. Where would you classify Rio for instance ? Eastern or Western ? It's definitely not eastern obviously but I dont think it is traditionally western either. It's just Brazil. Just like Turkey's just Turkey.

Paris ? The sheer idea of it bores me completely. Boston or any other US ? Why not but then again, not half as thrilling as Istanbul to me. I wouldnt be shocked if Istanbul hosted in 2024, but once more it's just an opinion (and a wish).

I still do get your point. We'll see.

I see your point as well. Turkey and Japan have radically different cultures.

I'm just talking about a totally subjective feeling. Tokyo poses such an incredible contrast to Rio. The IOC couldn't have asked for more dramatic juxtaposition. I suspect they'll be looking for something that feels like a strong contrast to Tokyo. Paris, Durban or the USA all seem to have more to offer in that area than Istanbul.

Please also understand that I do think Istanbul is a fascinating destination and I look forward to seeing them host one day. I just seriously question whether 2024 will be the year.

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If the field is weak like last time then maybe Istanbul could take it but I would advise them not to go against South Africa or Paris, that would be simply foolish. Also if Turkey is again offered the 2024 Euros on a silver plate they should take it. One thing bothering me is now that it will take at least 12 years for Europe to host again after London and maybe at least another 12 years after 2024 to host after that with potential hosts from Africa and North America lining up before them, what would European IOC members think of Turkey and Istanbul? And I don't mean those that come from potential future host countries but rather those who come from smaller nations and don't have that obvious national interest. Would they see Istanbul as a European host or would they rather wait for a more traditional Western European city?

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Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan has stood behind his objection to mixed-sex student accommodation, making public that governors had already been “intervening” in certain situations upon “intelligence” about houses where male and female university students live together.

“It’s not clear what is going on in these places. They are all mixed up, anything can happen. As a conservative democratic government, we have to intervene. In these places, there is intelligence received by our security forces, the police department and the governorates. Acting upon this intelligence, our governors are intervening in these situations. Why are you annoyed about this?”

he added, citing complaints from neighbors living in the same apartment buildings as students.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkish-government-to-act-on-mixed-sex-student-homes.aspx?pageID=238&nID=57392&NewsCatID=338

Well, their next Olympic Village plans will be interesting.

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Takes a lot of "intelligence" to find out what could happen in such places, I guess.

Might come as a shock to that conservative democratic government that some things may even happen also in same-sex accomodations...

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