Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
baron-pierreIV

Should Turkey bid again?

Recommended Posts

Obviously, it's NOT for me to direct whether Istanbul should bid again in the future...but I am just putting this up for discussion's sake.

Having personally been to Istanbul and Turkey; unless Istanbul goes up against Tulsa, Abuja, Lille, Hiroshima, then Turkey could bid. But otherwise no. Primarily, Istanbul -- for all its historic and strategic value -- is just too DENSE to host something like a 21st century Olympic Games. While the greater Istanbul area is close to the megalopolis of Tokyo, Tokyo has ideal inter-city mass transit infrastructure and the many left-over venues and parks of 1964 give it some breathing room which Istanbul does not have.

And the selling point of "a bridge between 2 continents" and "first muslim nation to host" can only go so far if the actual lay of the land is very problematic...which it is. The second selling point is great if the Olympics are based on religious universality but that is NOT the main criterion for picking an ideal host city.

So, for my money, I think Istanbul should just pack it in.

Your thoughts???

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My feeling - and it was the same for 2020 - is that they should go for the 2024 Euros. It's much more gettable for them and if I were Turkey I'd make that my focus for now. Certainly, hedging their bets and going for both has proved a failed strategy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The other potential option is planning an Ankara bid? Albeit Ankara doesn't have the same charm as Istanbul, the city has better options to develop a proper venues and transport. Selling it as a modern Turkey with an old sense.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The other potential option is planning an Ankara bid? Albeit Ankara doesn't have the same charm as Istanbul, the city has better options to develop a proper venues and transport. Selling it as a modern Turkey with an old sense.

IDK - that would be similar to Brazil going with Brasilia after Rio couldn't get it. Istanbul is really Turkey's only iconic city to go after this. With more infrastructure improvements & better timing, I think they could ultimately succeed. And out of of all the Muslim countries, Turkey really offers the most scenic & credible option with its largest metropolis. There's just no other compelling alternative, that's stable & attractive enough in that category.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Istanbul should keep trying. All the previous bids can teach them how to compact their olympic clusters (even when the ceremonies concept was by far the most attractive ones in the 2020 race, the challenge was a headache in terms of logistics), so it was a turn off for most of the IOC members. However, what they have to improve, as soon as possible, is their diplomatic approaches to the IOC. A few months ago, I was reading the Official 1988 Seoul Olympics report, and one of the main keys for them to be awarded was the diplomatic skills from such a poor and undeveloped country back in the 70s.

But if any capable African city bids, they should step back and wait until 2028, so they can also refresh their concept and no Erdogan and conservative non-secular people would be in power at the time of the bid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

time will show... if the 3 rd bridge, 3rd airport, marmaray ( will open this year) and other expensive investments finish at time or in progress the budget of 2020 will drop to 5/7bUSD at 24.

without any problems about logistics and finished urban development Istanbul can get 24. if it gets 36 votes with all disadvantages at 20 race why not in 24 then?

and at 2015 there will be elections, with gezi parkı and syria problems the parliement can be more balanced like % 40 akp % 28 chp and %15 mhp with % 5 kurdish party, erdoğans "1 man show" cant be continue...

uefa 2020 finals will stage here most probably and no chance to take it at 24 again. better focus on olympics or pass it ( which i dont give a chance the government will pass)

+ with all disadv. , located far from village ..etc the ceremony stadium at bosphorus will be the best ever in olympic history, just we saw a glipse of moments at 20 videos and seems WOW...bet no one has an argue about it:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

+ with all disadv. , located far from village ..etc the ceremony stadium at bosphorus will be the best ever in olympic history, just we saw a glipse of moments at 20 videos and seems WOW...bet no one has an argue about it:)

But we're just going over the same ground again and again...and emre, see, like Madrid, if you/Istanbul don't listen to outside feedback, then as history says: Those who don't learn from experience, are doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past."

Forget that ceremony stadium. It's a "grand" idea on paper...but it's vastly impractical and won't work. The Village is too far.

Anyway, as Rob says...just go for Euro 2024. Or have Ankara try for a Games. It is NOT overbuilt and can stage a very efficient, compact OG.

Edited by baron-pierreIV

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

without any problems about logistics and finished urban development Istanbul can get 24. if it gets 36 votes with all disadvantages at 20 race why not in 24 then?

Don't do like Madrid & judge future races on past results. Madrid thought the same with their final round of 32 votes for 2016, & look where they wound up for 2020. And if 2024 does include the likes of Paris, Rome, South Africa & others, it could prove very, very difficult for an Istanbul 2024 candidacy, even with more infrastruceture improvements (i.e. Madrid 2020).

What's gonna be much more important is the lobbying. Campaign harder next time, & don't assume the new-frontier card, like Erdogan apparently did. And like Baron said, get rid of that Bosphorus stadium proposal. It's a huge logistical headache. And IDK about Ankara. I see that a couple of people have suggested that, but it should be iconic Istanbul. Like I said earlier, that would be like Brazil going with Brasalia if Rio weren't successful after several attempts. Istanbul could still do if it plays most, if not all, of it's cards right next time around.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

dont compare madrid and istanbul

istanbul is HUGE 15 m. people and need those investments for us not for the games, and they are a must.

what i mean without any traffic investments left and no concerns about it Istanbul can solve one of its handicaps

may be we take the issue from different views. im as a marketing executive, see what can Istanbul sells but in an optional ground and bosphorus is the golden package of the city bid:) if the product inside of the pack is worth to buy this golden pack. why not. we need to perfect the product first.

just we need a good team ( 2020 team did a good job) a compact bid plan and a charismatic leader and time till 2016

ankara? common :/ its putting manchester instead of london.

still not sure what will happen till 2016

.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyway, the big success of Rio and Tokyo were the improvements offered to the IOC. They managed to change and refresh their urban and Olympic infrastructure, totally the opposite of what Madrid did. Even when technically Madrid offered great standards, when people looked at their projects, we were really bored.

About the ceremonies issue, Istanbul can celebrate a pre-Opening ceremony where they can use the whole Bosphorus, just as Seoul did on the Han river, Mexico City at Plaza de la Constitución (Zocalo) or how France used the most iconic avenues and squares in Paris for the 1998 FIFA World Cup and all met at Place de la Concorde for the inhabitants and tourists visiting those 3 cities during their fêtes. So then, again, Istanbul could host the official opening and closing ceremonies at Atatürk Stadium (just to avoid transporting more than 10 thousand athletes and the others from the Olympic family to Kadıköy) and keep them safe and away from any delay or logistical problem, so the project would be more feasible and Istanbul gets a double bonus like this examples above mentioned.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh yes, France 98. Seen that on YouTube, probably the single most bizarre ceremony ever seen :wacko: Don't know about the ceremony in the Stade de France, I've seen pictures of it with people dressed as gardens, but not seen a proper vid of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yoshi, pls stay focused. U are always meandering off to some off-tangent direction. While discussion does wander off sometimes, you have this very marked tendency to wander off and throw the discussion off kilter. THERE IS A REASON for separate threads. For a newbie here, you try to throw the focus of the discussion too off-kilter. Please try to stay focused. Like this is a thread for Turkey's chances to bid again or not -- and what do you friggin' post? The FRANCE 1998 ceremony!! C'mon, it's too scatter-brained. Please stay focused. Or start a tnew thread in some appropriate folder about the France 1998 World Cup ceremony -- not here. :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry, I do have a tendency to go off a bit in real life lol.

As for Turkey, I think they should go after the Euro or even the World Cup first, or possibly the Muslim games. Turkey is the kind of country that could use some major experience, as it's not a major power. Unfortunately as a European country, there isn't much chance to get multisport experience. I think Istanbul should go after the Euro games ASAP, a great staging of those could do for them what the Pan Am did for Rio.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the topic of this thread is a very valid question, but I don't think it's easy to answer. I would love to see Istanbul host the Olympic Games and for that reason I hope they bid again. A key part of this question, however, is WHEN should they bid again. That's a bit trickier.

I see two big hurdles for Istanbul to overcome:

1.) The density and layout of the city, as already mentioned by Baron. They must develop a spectacular venue and transport plan that essentially works a few miracles. I don't see much point in switching to Ankara or Izmir. Istanbul is where it's at. They've got to find a way to make it work.

2.) The bid leaders and the government do not seem to understand how to campaign. They don't seem to understand where their vulnerabilities lie and they don't seem totally willing to address them. That's a huge problem. Until they're willing to do some hard self-examination, they won't be electable. Mind you, even if they had managed the 2020 campaign perfectly, the doping results, protests and Syria were always going to be very tough to overcome.

So yes, Istanbul should bid again, but probably not for 2024. They need to take some time to regroup and develop a better plan and stronger strategy. They need to hire some top drawer advisors AND listen to them. Too many groups pay through the nose for very good advice and then decide to ignore it.

I strongly suspect that the window will close for Istanbul for a while. 2020 was their best shot so far. It would seem that 2024, 2028 and 2032 are headed for North America, Europe and Africa (in any order). I just don't really see Istanbul squeezing in before 2036 and the 40's are more likely.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yoshi, pls stay focused. U are always meandering off to some off-tangent direction. While discussion does wander off sometimes, you have this very marked tendency to wander off and throw the discussion off kilter. THERE IS A REASON for separate threads. For a newbie here, you try to throw the focus of the discussion too off-kilter. Please try to stay focused. Like this is a thread for Turkey's chances to bid again or not -- and what do you friggin' post? The FRANCE 1998 ceremony!! C'mon, it's too scatter-brained. Please stay focused. Or start a tnew thread in some appropriate folder about the France 1998 World Cup ceremony -- not here. :rolleyes:

why are you always nagging him? your tone is so creepily marital, like my aunt hissing at my uncle through clenched teeth at chili's that he doesn't need another margarita.

your scolding is 10x more annoying then anything yoshi has ever posted. oh my god, stop, and take your own favorite piece of advice: DON'T READ IT.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

why are you always nagging him? your tone is so creepily marital, like my aunt hissing at my uncle through clenched teeth at chili's that he doesn't need another margarita.

your scolding is 10x more annoying then anything yoshi has ever posted. oh my god, stop, and take your own favorite piece of advice: DON'T READ IT.

Then I'll say the same to you. If u don't like my post -- which WASN'T addressed to you in the first place, then DON"T F*CKING READ IT!! Who asked you, busybody???

Edited by baron-pierreIV

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

dont compare madrid and istanbul

istanbul is HUGE 15 m. people and need those investments for us not for the games, and they are a must.

I'm not comparing Madrid to Istanbul, only the circumstances. You're implying that simply bcuz Istanbul managed 36 votes in the final round that somehow bodes well if they bid for 2024.

Infrastructure improvements or not, the 2020 vote means nothing for future races. If it did, then Paris would be a slam-dunk if they bid again since they only lost to London by a mere four votes. 2020 was undoubtedly Istanbul's best chance, out off their attempts, at landing the Olympics. And if they liked to be succesful, not only our the improvements important, but so is the campaigning. Erdogan apparently thought that the new-frontier card was enough. They shouldn't make that same mistake again by assuming that bcuz they were in the final that they're simply gonna clench it next time. Especially when the final vote was 3-to-1 in favor of Tokyo. It's akin to the 2016's final vote count of 3-to-1 that the "runner up" was falsely going by. And that was what I was comparing, not the cities themselves.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd say Istanbul should sit 2024 out. With South Africa, France/Italy and the US aligning as potential hosts up until 2032, the earliest and most realistic estimate I'd now have for an Istanbul Olympics is 2036, at earliest.

This is why 2020 was so important for Istanbul. It really was a now or never situation for them, and it sucks that wasn't meant to be. Tokyo was the best choice - but for me Istanbul 2020 is the most iconic Olympic Games that never was.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Couple articles states that the IOC just saved many historical sites in Istanbul by not awarding the Olympics to that city. Yes, it is among the greatest cities in the world, but personally I’d rather have its historical heritage and sites protected.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Even without the games, I'm sure Erdogan will find some excuse to tear down some historical buildings to build carparks.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Babylon- I'm not sure what sites you refer to aside from the Taksim Square proposal (the source of this year's unrest) which was completely unrelated to the 2020 Olympic plans.

Truthfully, I don't think the IOC cares a great deal about a few historical sites anyway - they were all but mute during Beijing's preparations which saw the destruction (*cough* modernisation) of parts of Beijing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Babylon- I'm not sure what sites you refer to aside from the Taksim Square proposal (the source of this year's unrest) which was completely unrelated to the 2020 Olympic plans.

Truthfully, I don't think the IOC cares a great deal about a few historical sites anyway - they were all but mute during Beijing's preparations which saw the destruction (*cough* modernisation) of parts of Beijing.

The reality is that Taksim square is nothing special at all. In fact, as it stands right now it is basically a coach park.

My dad saw plans for the proposed rebuild that would have included a historic reconstruction of Ottoman barracks as well as much more green space than currently exists. Unfortunately, most of the protesters didn't seem aware of the particulars of the plan they were protesting against.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From my understanding, much of the angst was related to the selling of public land to private interests. It is similar to much of the urban planning approach here in Australia too - 'public' spaces are increasingly falling into the hands of private owners. But I agree with the assertion that like any protest, a great deal of people wouldn't have had much an idea of the root issue. However it can't be denied that people certainly needed to vent over some greater issues in Turkey, like Article 301.


PS- out of interest, what field is your father in?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×