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Reasons for Madrid's 3rd loss..


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http://aroundtherings.com/articles/view.aspx?id=44491

Can a Madrileno supporter please clarify this paragraph? Doesn't make sense to me...

Secretary of State for Sport Miguel Cardenal gave his own version of events to El Pais on Wednesday, claiming the main role of leading the bid "this time was down to the Spanish Olympic Committee," as opposed to previous failed bids for the 2012 and 2016 Games when the opposition party were in government.

So WHO led the 2 previous bids??

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I just shake my head after reading that. And people say that the French are arrogant. How many times has it been mentioned that the presentations don't really make or brake the bids. That they're merely for the very few "undecideds", & that the majority already have their minds made up by the time they get to the session. Clearly Tokyo's big lead, even in the first-round, suggests that the presentations were not the seal-dealers.

Many of those "reasons" that they're citing for the loss are just plain wrong. Like "the IOC has gone for the most expensive bid". This just displays of arrogance & ignorance & them never really knowing their competition, since Istanbul was, by far, the most expensive & most infrastructure intensive of all three bids. And I love the last one of the six, that "the IOC do not 'love' us". I remember reading in another article too that many of the supporters over there called the IOC the 'mafia'. And how could they also cite "the support of a Paris bid for 2024" when even the French here say it's not even on the radar over there. I also like the "unexpected & disappointing first-round departure". Like for 2016, to quote some from back then now - "well, someone had to go out first".

And they really need to stop trying to blame the mayor, too. As a matter of fact, she was the one that I enjoyed watching the most. I thought that she was warm, friendly & charismatic. So what if Anita had "meager English". I was still able to understand her & what she was trying to communicate. So people, lay off Botella! It wasn't her fault! :angry: If you wanna cast any blame on any of the speakers, why don't you start with Rajoy, with his Hitler-like tone. Talk about abrasive & a turn-off.

But in all seriousness. Most of this can be looked at as bad timing & nothing else. They could analyze all they want 'til they're blue in the face, but the fact of the matter is, Barcelona 1992 is still too soon. Their narrative was also very weak. The economy may not have been the bid killer, but surely it was NOT an asset. And no amount of austerity talk could overcome that. And the most important of all, don't assume anything until the very last of campaining. They let the "wave of confidence" get the best of them at the Sportsaccord back in July. They thought that they had gotten the momentum & had it in the bag. Clearly that was not the case. Same goes for Istanbul for that matter. Erdogan thought, after reading an article on "their loss", that simply being the new frontier was enough. But obviously it wasn't this time around. Rio still drove their message loud & clear all the way to the finish line. So lessons to be learned here for both parties; never take things for granted.

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Thank God for the independent media on Internet -From Spanish bloggers-, because the mainstream media coverage in Spain is becoming a lame circus of full excuses and empty reclamations. Remarking the excellent post of FYI I add another interesting points of this:

  • In diplomacy and foreign relations, Spain lacks of a proper image and relevant power. Even starring proper altercations with other countries don't help a lot for the cause and Rajoy didn't help a lot even it makes worse that weakness. So, that's bringing a lot for the next point.
  • Start a new reclamation for Gilbraltar just days before the election. What were they thinking? Have Rajoy and people sand on their heads? 36% of the voters inside the COI are members of the Commonwealth.
  • The Dopping case is still ridiculous. Of course it has a lot of terrible effect on voters.
  • Lot of arrogance in the cause. The Spanish media was dreadful and pathetic selling Madrid as the favorite even when all the course was against them and then these accusations of "corruption" and "hate". Please madrileños, don't have selective amnesia and remember how was Barcelona bid process with Samaranch on charge... But then, when the IOC is corrupt in our good, they're "great", if not, they're "evil"...
  • And last, it is bizarre when you check the Madrid delegation at the presentation in Buenos Aires. More people that the people of Turkey and Japan delegations together. The list with proper mayors, a full representation of Television Española, a mediocre C-List actress in front of the cameras and parasites with "titles". In a country with serious economic crisis is laughable and terrible this type of situation
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As I had also posted before, I think they got overly confident of their "popularity" within the IOC.

That's an aspect that resonated here & even by some of the prominent members. How many times did we hear "never underestimate the Spaniards. I just can shake it that they're going to pull a 'surprise'. They were in the final with Rio, so surely they'll get it this time", lines. Yet the Spanish were never able to garner more than 32 votes in any of their previous races. And this time around, they managed even less with just 26.

That whole show at the Sportsaccord, with Felipe prancing around, is what is also sent that whole notion into mass hysteria, too. They really thought that a handshake & a wink-wink from the Prince was enough to get them the votes.

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Thank God for the independent media on Internet -From Spanish bloggers-, because the mainstream media coverage in Spain is becoming a lame circus of full excuses and empty reclamations. Remarking the excellent post of FYI I add another interesting points of this:

  • In diplomacy and foreign relations, Spain lacks of a proper image and relevant power. Even starring proper altercations with other countries don't help a lot for the cause and Rajoy didn't help a lot even it makes worse that weakness. So, that's bringing a lot for the next point.
  • Start a new reclamation for Gilbraltar just days before the election. What were they thinking? Have Rajoy and people sand on their heads? 36% of the voters inside the COI are members of the Commonwealth.
  • The Dopping case is still ridiculous. Of course it has a lot of terrible effect on voters.
  • Lot of arrogance in the cause. The Spanish media was dreadful and pathetic selling Madrid as the favorite even when all the course was against them and then these accusations of "corruption" and "hate". Please madrileños, don't have selective amnesia and remember how was Barcelona bid process with Samaranch on charge... But then, when the IOC is corrupt in our good, they're "great", if not, they're "evil"...
  • And last, it is bizarre when you check the Madrid delegation at the presentation in Buenos Aires. More people that the people of Turkey and Japan delegations together. The list with proper mayors, a full representation of Television Española, a mediocre C-List actress in front of the cameras and parasites with "titles". In a country with serious economic crisis is laughable and terrible this type of situation

Spanish media said the whole week about, crisis, dopping....it was the biggest issues for Spain, and i whatched and readed it in 75% media , and i am and live in Spain.

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Spanish media said the whole week about, crisis, dopping....it was the biggest issues for Spain, and i whatched and readed it in 75% media , and i am and live in Spain.

+1

Every single point Roger87 makes, I've heard before in Spanish mainstream media.

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I think it was too much about Madrid within the last 8 years. It was more like a parade of pride and whims than a real legacy project. For the 2016 race Madrid was too criticized for such imprudence after London success. I guess if Madrid would have waited until the 2024, the chances were bigger. Now they have to try at least until 2032.

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Thank God for the independent media on Internet -From Spanish bloggers-, because the mainstream media coverage in Spain is becoming a lame circus of full excuses and empty reclamations. Remarking the excellent post of FYI I add another interesting points of this:

  • In diplomacy and foreign relations, Spain lacks of a proper image and relevant power. Even starring proper altercations with other countries don't help a lot for the cause and Rajoy didn't help a lot even it makes worse that weakness. So, that's bringing a lot for the next point.
  • Start a new reclamation for Gilbraltar just days before the election. What were they thinking? Have Rajoy and people sand on their heads? 36% of the voters inside the COI are members of the Commonwealth.
  • The Dopping case is still ridiculous. Of course it has a lot of terrible effect on voters.
  • Lot of arrogance in the cause. The Spanish media was dreadful and pathetic selling Madrid as the favorite even when all the course was against them and then these accusations of "corruption" and "hate". Please madrileños, don't have selective amnesia and remember how was Barcelona bid process with Samaranch on charge... But then, when the IOC is corrupt in our good, they're "great", if not, they're "evil"...
  • And last, it is bizarre when you check the Madrid delegation at the presentation in Buenos Aires. More people that the people of Turkey and Japan delegations together. The list with proper mayors, a full representation of Television Española, a mediocre C-List actress in front of the cameras and parasites with "titles". In a country with serious economic crisis is laughable and terrible this type of situation

I complety agree with you. They were seriously very dumb by doing again the claiming of Gibraltar (a place which has made more than clear many times before that they want to remain in the Commonwealth).

And let's face it. Barcelona did one of the best Olympics ever, but if it wasn't by Samaranch, we would be talking today about Paris 1992.

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To me at least i'd say the fact that the country is still facing huge problems after the GFC. I think when Rome pulled out it should have been an indication to Madrid that they don't really have a shot. They gained momentum towards the end of the campaign but only due to blunders from both cities.

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My take on it:

  • The economy made the bid DOA. Rome made the wise choice when pulling out.
  • Madrid fatigue. Third bid in three cycles. I think the useless and misguided 2016 bid did hurt 2020. PyeongChang did this too, granted, but all 3 of their bids where bids that where realistically winnable (unlike 2016, where Madrid had no chance of winning due to London 2012 - don't let the "close" vote fool you, Madrid was the least likely of the four).
  • Doping. This also hurt Turkey.
  • Barcelona loomed large. Germany hasn't hosted since 1972, Italy since 1960, France since 1924 (!). The only European countries that have hosted since Spain are Greece (probably not happening again) and Great Britain. It simply isn't Spain's turn.
  • Did I mention the economy?
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I think the useless and misguided 2016 bid did hurt 2020. PyeongChang did this too, granted, but all 3 of their bids where bids that where realistically winnable (unlike 2016, where Madrid had no chance of winning due to London 2012 - don't let the "close" vote fool you, Madrid was the least likely of the four)

Exactly. In the Winter Olympics it's more difficult to find proper places because the geographic condictions -Topography, weather, time zone-, so Pyeongchang can pull off consecutive bids until winning. The Summer Olympics, on the other hand, the competition is mostly fierce and with many potential contenders

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The 2016 final ballot wasn't even "close". It was merely a mirage, since Rio slam-dunked that final round.

Then Madrid saw PyeongChang clench it on the third try & thought that they could do the same. But thing the main with PyeongChang is that it was a Winter Olymics & the had a compelling argument to make. Madrid didn't. If Spain would put that much effort on a Winter bid instead, I've always said that their chances in that area would be that much better.

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That's why I agree with what baron said in the USA 2024 thread, the IOC could have strongly hinted that 2016 was to be a new frontier's turn, saving Spain, Japan, & the US a lot of money & grief. I hope what baron suggested there is close to what Bach is planning, it would make sense all round, especially in the current world economy.

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That's why I agree with what baron said in the USA 2024 thread, the IOC could have strongly hinted that 2016 was to be a new frontier's turn, saving Spain, Japan, & the US a lot of money & grief. I hope what baron suggested there is close to what Bach is planning, it would make sense all round, especially in the current world economy.

At what stage would the IOC have hinted that? If I remember correctly, for quite a while in that race Rio felt like an outside bet with a solid US bid looking like the front-runner. And in actual fact, in the year or two leading up to the start of that bid race, most on this forum were saying it was the USA's to lose. There are two problems here:

1. Olympic bids don't magic from thin air. London 2012 was being worked on and considered a good five or six years before the final vote, and a good two or three years before the start of the bid race itself. If we take the 2016 race, we have both the US and Brazil working behind the scenes putting together Olympic bids. At what stage should the IOC have said to one of these embryonic bid teams "stop", especially considering the US was early favourite for 2016?

2. Limit your options early and you can easily get into a situation like FIFA has. Elect Brazil 2014 uncontested then watch as, for seven years, they sit and do nothing. The capitalist, all's fair in love and war, competitive bid races that the IOC encourages might leave collateral damage and wastage, but they get the best end result more often than not. That's the most important thing. Tweaks and more spending limits might be better than to completely change the way things work.

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2. Limit your options early and you can easily get into a situation like FIFA has. Elect Brazil 2014 uncontested then watch as, for seven years, they sit and do nothing. The capitalist, all's fair in love and war, competitive bid races that the IOC encourages might leave collateral damage and wastage, but they get the best end result more often than not. That's the most important thing. Tweaks and more spending limits might be better than to completely change the way things work.

Good point. As with all things in life, you appreciate things more when you work for it. Uncontested races to nothing to motivate you to deliver.

On a related note, it can be good for a bidder to lose first before winning on their 2nd or 3rd try. Otherwise, you can take the win for granted because you don't realize how fortunate you were to win. That is, if you don't become jaded with your first loss.

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The thing is the WHOLE enterprise has become so BIG -- because not only do you have the 17 days of the Olympics...but then you have what? another 10 days of the Paralympics...which will also probably increase more slowly in size. That really just leaves the mega-cities of the world who can cope with the challenge. They have to cut down the regular Olympics to size: Ueberroth wanted it to no more than 18. That is why I think they didn't want him in the IOC; he would've chopped off half-a-dozen sports; made enemies of the same Federations. But that is the only way to get MORE cities (and there are many quality A- or B cities out there) bidding.

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I don't think a lack of city is really an issue. We had three high quality potential hosts for 2020, in the midst of a major economic crisis and not long after the financial messes that where Athens and Beijing. More cities probably would have thrown their hats in had they thought they had a chance. As long as cities keep lining up I don't feel the IOC should feel too much pressure to scale down.

For all the flaws of Madrid's bid, they did show that hosting the Olympics need not be extraneously expensive.

Edited by Fox334
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For all the flaws of Madrid's bid, they did show that hosting the Olympics need not be extraneously expensive.

U're just looking at what they claimed to be a 'low-ball' figure of staging the Games. Of course, they did NOT mention that they had already spent some $3-4 billion on facilities that really won't see major use. So that is still great wastage. Stadias and arenas in Athens and Beijing are all sitting unused -- and that is becuz the IOC keeps accommodating 25 federations. Bring that down to 20 sports; be serious in capping athletes to just 10,000 -- and maybe world's media to 8,500 -- and you will see more "B" cities jumping in to bid.

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U're just looking at what they claimed to be a 'low-ball' figure of staging the Games. Of course, they did NOT mention that they had already spent some $3-4 billion on facilities that really won't see major use. So that is still great wastage.

Exactly. The $1.9 Billion price tag was such a disingenuous figure. It's was bound to ballon anyway, as Olympic budgets usually do, that surely once the spending started to inflate in an already austerity ridden economy, the citizens then would've taken to the streets in protest, once again, like they did in Brazil. "Fiscally responsible Games" is such an oxymoron in a country which hasn't exercised that same philosophy in their own fiscal house.

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That's why I agree with what baron said in the USA 2024 thread, the IOC could have strongly hinted that 2016 was to be a new frontier's turn, saving Spain, Japan, & the US a lot of money & grief. I hope what baron suggested there is close to what Bach is planning, it would make sense all round, especially in the current world economy.

Baron suggested a poll which is very different from a hint.

Among other things, how can 100+ people hint at anything when they probably don't see eye to eye?

It would be foolish and unnecessarily limiting to institute an official rotation policy like FIFA. However, it would be possible to poll IOC members attitudes toward different prospective bidders prior to the deadline for bid submissions.

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However, it would be possible to poll IOC members attitudes toward different prospective bidders prior to the deadline for bid submissions.

The USOC did just that (an informal poll with several IOC members), before the 2016 race got underway (during the domestic campaign), to try & gauge which city they should pick as their candidate. Obviously, that didn't mean much in the end.

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The USOC did just that (an informal poll with several IOC members), before the 2016 race got underway (during the domestic campaign), to try & gauge which city they should pick as their candidate. Obviously, that didn't mean much in the end.

I know they did. A poll is only as good as the questions it asks. The USOC only asked members to compare one American city to another. Chicago WAS the best bet considering the American options.

The USOC did not even ask "Will the Olympic movement be ready to return to the US in 2016?" The IOC did not get the opportunity to convey their attitudes about Chicago in contrast to the rest of the International field.

A poll sponsored by the IOC (rather than one NOC) would generate much more interesting data and would provide a way to compare prospective bids against each other.

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The USOC did not even ask "Will the Olympic movement be ready to return to the US in 2016?" The IOC did not get the opportunity to convey their attitudes about Chicago in contrast to the rest of the International field.

What kind of response other than "oh yes, we're ready to come back to the U.S. for 2016" could be expected. Don't think a question like that would've made any difference one way or another.

A poll sponsored by the IOC (rather than one NOC) would generate much more interesting data and would provide a way to compare prospective bids against each other.

I think this is wishful thinking. What kind of objective 'data' could we expect from such a diplomatic, self-centered bunch, in most cases. Plus, this would go against the IOC's "keeping their options open" if they'd put themselves in such an alienating position.

Plus, would such information be made public. Or if so, would we get direct quotes from direct members themselves. I think that just opens up a whole nother can of worms that I'm sure the IOC wouldn't wanna bother with.

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