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The trouble with trying to converse with you, is that one knows you're going to disregard any insights we may share into Olympic politics, and instead subject us to a wordy lecture on geopolitics and

Gotta say, I'm warming, both emotionally and intellectually, to Krakow. Okay, it's early days yet, and I'll wait and see what the general consensus of the technical plans from the applicant files are,

Almaty is not straddling the benchmark. I understand you really don't like them. They're not my first choice either, but they ARE technically capable -- no question. They were always going to make the

I'm not sure about bids that didn't win, but Evelina Christillin was the president of the Torino 2006 bid I believe.

Correct. Well, Mercouri was a top officer of the failed 1996 bid; then Gianna headed the 1997 victory. Then Christallin in 1999 for Torino; and then Cassani for London in 2003-4 (?).

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I know but I'm speaking in terms of the person who was there to deliver the speech at the OC. I wasn't aware in Torino it was a female too.

I see what you're saying. So yes, Gianna is the only woman to stay on until the Games' actual opening so far. Christallin was there up to the time Torino won but she didn't stay on to do the actual Games-time organizing if that's where you want to cut the cake. But then after Russia switched their Deputy Minister Kozakh at the Paralympic Opening...rather than the non-official Chernyshenko (who spoke at the regular Olympic Opening) so that they had someone who would say the RIGHT things politically especially in light of the events between the WOG and the Paralympics, I also think that whomever ends up delivering the speech at Opening isn't all that important. It's merely window dressing.

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Just to add something about Magdalena Sroka. One of the 10 most influential women in Poland according to the magazines. Apart her aparency (I love Baron, but this is illness, nothing to make jokes imho), she is one of the most succesfull women in polish politic. One of the youngest deputy major in Poland, woman, and not a member of any party. I like that she is always sooo substantive and prepared to answer any question. Maybe thats what Krakow 2022 need now?

This month is like going through the atmosphere.

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Just to clarify something...not that this would sink into some heads here. But you know...bid teams try to put on the most athletic, the most dynamic, the most media-genic athletes and personalities who will carry their message and sell the city. Why do they draft the likes of Katerina Witt, Toby Dawson, etc., to appear on the platform? And then Krakow puts on a hefty leader--regardless of and no reflection on her competence. Remember, the Paris team of 2012 was described as a team of "...old white men in grey suits"? Know how to add 2 and 2? But hey, if being PC is more important than winning a bid, then I guess I'm in the wrong forum. I thought this was one about discussing bids and assessing their chances of winning?? :blink:

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Quality leadership is quality leadership. You want the most capable person leading the team. Period.

You cited 2 examples: Witt an anomalous combo of intellect, beauty, charisma and athleticism and Dawson, who most certainly was not in any kind of leadership role. He was a guest speaker and had no real involvement with the bid. Sadly not every country has a Katarina Witt to lead the charge. Munich was unusually blessed. But obviously the IOC based their final decision on something other than Witt's undeniable appeal -- and I don't think it was Toby Dawson.

I have no doubt Krakow will parade a string of athletes should they make it to the candidate stage.

As for Magdalena, she wouldn't have made it this far if she weren't smart and capable. In fact, she probably has had to overcompensate in those areas thanks small minded individuals who get hung up on her appearance.

Baron, your history on these boards should've prepared me to expect you to defend your prejudice rather than owning the fault. Even so, I'm disgusted.

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Just to clarify something...not that this would sink into some heads here. But you know...bid teams try to put on the most athletic, the most dynamic, the most media-genic athletes and personalities who will carry their message and sell the city. Why do they draft the likes of Katerina Witt, Toby Dawson, etc., to appear on the platform? And then Krakow puts on a hefty leader--regardless of and no reflection on her competence. Remember, the Paris team of 2012 was described as a team of "...old white men in grey suits"? Know how to add 2 and 2? But hey, if being PC is more important than winning a bid, then I guess I'm in the wrong forum. I thought this was one about discussing bids and assessing their chances of winning?? :blink:

So you think Krakow would be better off putting someone who is more photo-genic but perhaps less up to the challenge to take up the leadership role than Magdalena? Do you honestly and seriously believe that her appearance, that she's on the overweight side rather than a slender athletic type, will affect their chances of winning? If you really do think that's true, then you are probably in the wrong forum.

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What is it with this forum? Don't people get it...and then blow things way out of proportion.

All I'm saying is that in a tight, tight race...there's a chance...a slim chance that...if Ms. Sroka ends up being the chief spokesperson for the bid at the Selection Day, and say the other teams put up sexier, more svelte presenters, Sroka's heft might just sway a few votes. The IOC is a very quirky crowd.

Call my comment superficial; call it what you will...I'm just saying.

And if that's not good enough; then too bad. Let's just move on to other things. U DON'T have to agree; I'm not asking you to.

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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What is it with this forum? Don't people get it...and then blow things way out of proportion.

All I'm saying is that in a tight, tight race...there's a chance...a slim chance that...if Ms. Sroka ends up being the chief spokesperson for the bid at the Selection Day, and say the other teams put up sexier, more svelte presenters, Sroka's heft might just sway a few votes. The IOC is a very quirky crowd.

Call my comment superficial; call it what you will...I'm just saying.

And if that's not good enough; then too bad. Let's just move on to other things. U DON'T have to agree; I'm not asking you to.

What don't we get, baron? And yes, your comment is extremely superficial, and honestly I'm really surprised you're even bringing it up. Here's the thing..

The 100 or so IOC members are taking into account hundreds of things when they're voting on who they believe should host the 2022 Winter Olympics. Again, do you honestly think they're actually going to be swayed by the physical appearance of the bid leader? In other words that any of those IOC members are as superficial as you and will actually be swayed be that? "Gee, I can't decide between Krakow and Oslo.. I'll let the tiebreaker be which one of them I find sexier." Give these guys and girls a little more credit than that. They may be quirky, but I can't imagine them being swayed for that.

But let's say for argument's sake they are. Maybe it's worth a vote or 2. Okay.. how many votes does Krakow risk losing if they put up someone who is sexier than Sroka, but is also not as good of a salesman and a chief spokesperson for Krakow. You're trying to isolate 1 extremely minuscule factor and imagine a scenario where it's what makes or breaks Krakow's bid. How many other dozens of factors could you or I point to like that and say it could sway a few votes? Factors that are far more important than and much more likely to sway votes than the sex appeal of the chief spokesperson.

Obviously you're entitled to your opinion on this one. If you honestly think this is a factor (even though I would think someone who follows these things as closely as you would know better), then fine. Just don't lose sight of everything else that comes with choosing Sroka as their bid and that if the folks backing this bid (the one you're pretty darn sure is going to win) believe Sroka is the best and most capable person of leading their bid, chances are they gain more from having her in that position than they risk losing by not offering up someone who is better looking.

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Poppycock. You ridiculed somebody for being overweight because you thought mocking people was funny. Now you are furiously trying to backpedal.

Oh bullsh*t. U know jacksh*t, hijo de puta.

What don't we get, baron? And yes, your comment is extremely superficial, and honestly I'm really surprised you're even bringing it up. Here's the thing..

The 100 or so IOC members are taking into account hundreds of things when they're voting on who they believe should host the 2022 Winter Olympics. Again, do you honestly think they're actually going to be swayed by the physical appearance of the bid leader? In other words that any of those IOC members are as superficial as you and will actually be swayed be that? "Gee, I can't decide between Krakow and Oslo.. I'll let the tiebreaker be which one of them I find sexier." Give these guys and girls a little more credit than that. They may be quirky, but I can't imagine them being swayed for that.

But let's say for argument's sake they are. Maybe it's worth a vote or 2. Okay.. how many votes does Krakow risk losing if they put up someone who is sexier than Sroka, but is also not as good of a salesman and a chief spokesperson for Krakow. You're trying to isolate 1 extremely minuscule factor and imagine a scenario where it's what makes or breaks Krakow's bid. How many other dozens of factors could you or I point to like that and say it could sway a few votes? Factors that are far more important than and much more likely to sway votes than the sex appeal of the chief spokesperson.

Obviously you're entitled to your opinion on this one. If you honestly think this is a factor (even though I would think someone who follows these things as closely as you would know better), then fine. Just don't lose sight of everything else that comes with choosing Sroka as their bid and that if the folks backing this bid (the one you're pretty darn sure is going to win) believe Sroka is the best and most capable person of leading their bid, chances are they gain more from having her in that position than they risk losing by not offering up someone who is better looking.

Is that the best u can come up? You're short about a 1000 words, Mr. High Morality. :rolleyes:

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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Is that the best u can come up? You're short about a 1000 words, Mr. High Morality. :rolleyes:

It's not about morality, baron. You were the one who wants to assess a bid's chance of winning and then you offered up this. Aside from it being superficial, it's just stupid. Has nothing to do with morality. If I thought you made that comment in jest (which at first I thought you did) I would think it's funny (and I did) and move on, but the sad thing is that I think you actually believe in your own hype. Hey, maybe the Krakow committee should find some hot Polish blonde chick to be their chief spokesperson and then she flashes her boobs at the presentations. Let's say how many votes that's worth!

A thought does occur to me though.. what if this was another bidder we were talking about here? I mean, you've already told us that Krakow has this thing in the bag. But now you see them appoint a heavyset woman to run the show and perhaps you're coming to the realization that Krakow may not win? And you'll probably blame her appearance for Krakow's loss. Would be interesting if this was another bidder who appointed Sroka. Then you'd probably be mocking it even further, I bet. That this involves the bid you're very openly rooting for, it's almost as if you've managed to convince yourself this is actually an issue. Either that or we're all being trolled. Tough to tell sometimes.

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Hey, maybe the Krakow committee should find some hot Polish blonde chick to be their chief spokesperson and then she flashes her boobs at the presentations. Let's say how many votes that's worth!

Funny thing is, some of those old cronies could be swayed by that! Lmfao! :-D

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Funny thing is, some of those old cronies could be swayed by that! Lmfao! :-D

Yeah, like were it those yodlers who all but negated whatever sex appeal K. Witt had to exude? :lol: And of course, this is the same winter vote where the some 3 dozen + non-Winter country votes are the most fickle and unpredictable and would probably be the easiest to sway given the right distractions--maybe bright visuals, some eye-candy and entertainment to keep them awake and hopefully pressing your lever.

...And there goes 2022...regardless of having the MOST ACCOMPLISHED female executive this side of the Volga heading the bid. Going back to 2009, I don't think Michelle Obama really sold and carried the day for Chicago even if she was an authentic Chicago gal and the flavor of the month. And that was the summer vote. But hey, if you want to crucify on me for even considering it, go ahead -- after all, it's Easter! :P All I'm saying is that greater battles have been lost for a lot less.

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All I'm saying is that in a tight, tight race...there's a chance...a slim chance that...if Ms. Sroka ends up being the chief spokesperson for the bid at the Selection Day, and say the other teams put up sexier, more svelte presenters, Sroka's heft might just sway a few votes. The IOC is a very quirky crowd.
Baron, I can not be with you disagree. Here work psychology and the subconscious.
But we have now in Krakow intravascular problems. We need to protect the application from being devoured by the media, politicians and unwilling people. We need to influence and competence here in Poland. At this moment, no one thinks about Kuala Lumpur and IOC members attitude.
Kraków bid is fighting for staying alive. Jagna had great reception abroad Poland, but she was destroyed by media inside country.
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Baron, I can not be with you disagree. Here work psychology and the subconscious.
But we have now in Krakow intravascular problems. We need to protect the application from being devoured by the media, politicians and unwilling people. We need to influence and competence here in Poland. At this moment, no one thinks about Kuala Lumpur and IOC members attitude.
Kraków bid is fighting for staying alive. Jagna had great reception abroad Poland, but she was destroyed by media inside country.

Of course, I totally understand that. But I would think whomever was Jagna's replacement will be it for the bid phase and stay through at least the IOC vote. And yeah, it's a small point, but you have to think ahead (or at least, I do). And it would be folly to even change leaders between now and the vote next year. But hopefully all factors will work in Krakow's favor.

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Krakow still needs to get its referendum passed next month

Well, yeah. Duh! Altho they should've done that a few months ago or even before submitting the bid books last month. But there's also only like 14 months between now and the vote in July next year -- and there will only be one other IOC Session between now and Kuala Lumpur.

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To be honest I'm surprised Paris did not win considering that their bid was led by some IOC Members peers...I have a feeling that the city that would have a hot blong girl flash her boobs would be Dallas...

And true to Dallas, her boobs and her blonde would be fake.

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