p85 Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 A Winter Games without skiing in the host country? More like: A Winter Games without ALPINE skiing in the host country? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athensfan Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Alpine skiing - 10 events Sliding sports - 9 events. Hardly a difference. I'm not talking math. I know the numbers are close. Alpine skiing feels like more of a linchpin to me. Purely subjective. Out of curiosity, are there more alpine skiers than sliding athletes? I'm guessing yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intoronto Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 I'm not talking math. I know the numbers are close. Alpine skiing feels like more of a linchpin to me. Purely subjective. Out of curiosity, are there more alpine skiers than sliding athletes? I'm guessing yes. No Bobsleigh -170 Luge - 110 Skeleton - 50 Again its close. Sliding - 330 Alpine -320 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord David Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Krakow does have a highly professional bid book, with a bit of quirks. Cracovia stadium is supposedly hosting Ice hockey I at 10,000, supposedly having a roof and all, with ice hockey II in a new arena. Could it not host both at 10,000 capacity like Stockholm's proposal? Would save the need for another minor arena. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p85 Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Krakow does have a highly professional bid book, with a bit of quirks. Cracovia stadium is supposedly hosting Ice hockey I at 10,000, supposedly having a roof and all, with ice hockey II in a new arena. Could it not host both at 10,000 capacity like Stockholm's proposal? Would save the need for another minor arena. Stockholm proposed Friends Arena (ca. 50,000). Cracovia Stadium is 15,000, way to small. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p85 Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Jacek Majchrowski, Krakow's mayor, surprisingly changed his mind, and is backing up the referendum, probably to take place on 25 May, along with the European Parliament election. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanMUC Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Jacek Majchrowski, Krakow's mayor, surprisingly changed his mind, and is backing up the referendum, probably to take place on 25 May, along with the European Parliament election. Is that good news or bad news for the bid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) Oops. I see now. That'll be good for Crakow's bid. Edited March 24, 2014 by baron-pierreIV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowriver Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Is that good news or bad news for the bid? That depends if negative voices i hear is vocal minority or not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p85 Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Is that good news or bad news for the bid? I'm a bit undecided what to say... They're calling for a referendum, so they're probablly convinced that people will say "yes". The public support in polls is still above 70%. Mayor of Krakow would like to organize the referendum not only for Krakow and Zakopane citizens, but also for all people from Małopolska Voivodeship eligible to vote. This might be a good thing, considering the public support for the bid is actually higher in the whole region than in Krakow itself. And the referendum held in Zakopane in 1997 ended up with 79,3% positive votes (38% turnout). On the other hand, referendums in Poland are generally known for small voter turnout, people who go voting are mainly dissatisfied, and the NO voters are more mobilized. Voters who are pleased with the current condition, or just don't care, stay at home. Pairing the referendum with the European Parliament election might not help increase the turnout, because in 2004 and 2009 it was really poor. Those elections resulted in some bizarre outcomes, so despite the favourable polls, the whole thing may ended up like in Munich last year. If the turnout is more than 30%, the situation in quite clear: majority voted YES - the bid stays, majority voted NO - it's a withdrawal. If the turnout is less than 30%, than we have a problem. The referendum is invalid, so the bid committee will have right to continue the bid, but I don't think anti-olympic organisations would just give up and stay silent. With invalid referendum and majority voted NO, I think it'll be a withdrawal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanMUC Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Oh dear...another nasty "R" word situation then... The Munich referendum was deliberately not tied with the Bavarian elections two months earlier, which had a high turnout, and might have swung it to the YES side. But the Munich mayor was the opposition candidate in the Bavarian elections and since on the Olympics, both major parties agreed, they wanted to keep the issue out of the election campaign. Probably was a mistake. Also, while Munich and Garmisch were city referendums (and negative), for Ruhpolding and Königssee, the whole county voted, and while in the directly affected places, there was a yes majority, the whole county went for a clear NO. So, extending the referendum to the whole region could backfire for Kraków. I hope you'll have more success than we had here - I still don't think you'll win over Oslo, but in the near future, it should be your turn indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p85 Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 I hope you'll have more success than we had here - I still don't think you'll win over Oslo, but in the near future, it should be your turn indeed. I think it heavily depends on referendum result and / or the IOC evaluation report. This is how I see it: 1. Referendum fails = there will be no Polish bid for next 20 years, neither Winter nor Summer Games. Every attempt will be dismissed based on that failed referendum result. 2. Referendum pass off, but the IOC hates using Slovak slopes = the end of Polish winter games bids. No one will try to bid with Kasprowy WIerch remembering what huge ecological shitstorm Zakopane 2006 became. 3. Referendum pass off, but the IOC won't shortlist Krakow for other reasons = no winter bid until 2038. Slovakia or Ukraine might get their games before that, they at least have slopes with 800m vertical drop. Of course, Warsaw might try to submit some suicidal summer games bid, and this will end up worse than Prague 2016. As a matter a fact, I think they will do it. This is just what people do it this beautiful European region - Zakopane bidded for 2006 only because Poprad did for 2002, - Prague 2016 only happened because Poland & Ukraine got EURO 2012, - Budapest will bid for 2024, because of Krakow and Lviv bids, you'll see they will, - Warsaw will bid for 2032?, because Krakow did for 2022. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony E Loves Architecture Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Looks like Krakow probably won't carry on Bidding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petrpetr Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Is that good news or bad news for the bid? As shortly as I only can answer. If the referendum will be 25th of may along with Europarliament election then Krakow bid is more dead than Lviv one and we can close this topic even now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p85 Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 As shortly as I only can answer. If the referendum will be 25th of may along with Europarliament election then Krakow bid is more dead than Lviv one and we can close this topic even now. wow, that's a really gloomy opinion I actually think the referendum may pass, even held on 25th May. But I am myself worried with the whole IOC evalution. The Krakow bid book looks professional, but we're gonna be heavily bashed for the transport concept and general infrastructure. This might be another Sofia 2014. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petrpetr Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 wow, that's a really gloomy opinion p85, this news killed my mood today. You know how hard is to be pro-olympic here and face all the negative mess. Hope I'll wake up tomorrow in better shape ;-) Low transport marks is what i expect and what im waiting for! Huge spank + opportunity of win is the best mixture to do some expansion here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshi Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 This has to pass. Seriously, if it doesn't pass, this could be the end of Olympic bids from Europe as governments would look & think that an Olympic bid = electoral suicide. Please Poland, don't let Europe down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p85 Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Looks like Krakow probably won't carry on Bidding. We are not that delusional as Doha, I guess. If the IOC says you can't host the Olimpics (either because of the hot climate in August, or lack of suitable mountain slope for men's downhill), you just learn from Finland, and pul the plug on bidding for WOG. p85, this news killed my mood today. You know how hard is to be pro-olympic here and face all the negative mess. Hope I'll wake up tomorrow in better shape ;-) I kinda expected the referendum information for some time. I'm in a middle of huge "doubt phase" for the bid. Is there actually a one Polish media that support the bid, or at least provided unbiased news? I couldn't name any. Even the wikipedia entry for Krakow 2022 bid is filled in half with negative information. And Western media clearly hate the Krakow bid. Low transport marks is what i expect and what im waiting for! Huge spank + opportunity of win is the best mixture to do some expansion here. Zakopane bid was almost beat to death by the IOC in 1999, nobody cared and tried to change the transport conditions for f***ing 15 years. I'm probably unnecessarily digging for some Schadenfreude, but maybe this is what Poland needs to hear from international organization? "Your bid was worse than Lviv". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowriver Posted March 25, 2014 Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 As shortly as I only can answer. If the referendum will be 25th of may along with Europarliament election then Krakow bid is more dead than Lviv one and we can close this topic even now. You worried about frequency? If yes, then keep in mind if theres gonna be below minimum, referendum is invalidated, in other words like it never happened Thats actully may also save bid if theres gonna be more negative votes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted March 25, 2014 Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 Wow, you Polish guys....with optimists like you on the team, ALmaty and Oslo don't have to hire any thugs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wantu Posted March 25, 2014 Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 I'm in a middle of huge "doubt phase" for the bid. Is there actually a one Polish media that support the bid, or at least provided unbiased news? I couldn't name any. Even the wikipedia entry for Krakow 2022 bid is filled in half with negative information. And Western media clearly hate the Krakow bid. Zakopane bid was almost beat to death by the IOC in 1999, nobody cared and tried to change the transport conditions for f***ing 15 years. I'm probably unnecessarily digging for some Schadenfreude, but maybe this is what Poland needs to hear from international organization? "Your bid was worse than Lviv". Polish media are specific. One day they say that Olympic Games are a great chance, second day the same media quote politicians and say that Olympic Games will be a disaster. There are many voices that say it's a great chance for Krakow for a huge development provided there will be investments stated a few months ago. Kraków is in much better situation than Lviv and everyone knows about that. Comparing to a big social and political crisis in Ukraine ()hope it will change), Kraków has a huge support from almost the whole polish parliament, belongs to the European Union and current data says that there will be more residents living in Krakow due to improving live conditions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petrpetr Posted March 25, 2014 Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 Kraków is in much better situation than Lviv and everyone knows about that. Comparing to a big social and political crisis in Ukraine ()hope it will change), Kraków has a huge support from almost the whole polish parliament, belongs to the European Union and current data says that there will be more residents living in Krakow due to improving live conditions. On the one hand I cant disagree, but on the other ... if Krakow will lose public voting or IOC will deny alpine skiing in Slovakia, there wont be next Krakow bid. Ukraine still can handle their mess within next 4 years and compete in race for 2026 or 2030. The game isnt only about Krakow 2022, its about a chance to see olympic flame in Poland in XXI century. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 Copy a page from the Russians. Annex the Jasna area so it doesn't become a 2-country bid. (ANd then promise to restore it to Slovakia after 2022.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zekekelso Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 >> IOC will deny alpine skiing in Slovakia I can't think of any reason the IOC would do that. They are the ones that specifically wrote the provision allowing it into their rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 The 2022 field is weak enough as it is, with Oslo also on shaky ground ATM, for the IOC to simply disallow Krakow for that. Especially when it's also written in their Charter under extenuating circumstances. And this race certainly falls in that category. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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