zekekelso Posted December 1, 2013 Report Share Posted December 1, 2013 For great justice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted December 1, 2013 Report Share Posted December 1, 2013 If Beijing doesn't make the shortlist, I'll be blown away. I see Oslo and Beijing as the only two sure bets for the shortlist. I totally agree. If many are citing that Almaty should make it on technical merit alone, the same could be said about Beijing. They have a lot of the venues already to host many of the ice events & arguably hosted good Summer Olympics. But politically speaking, I just can't see the IOC shunning the Chinese. Like Moscow 2012, Beijing 2022 will be in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intoronto Posted December 1, 2013 Report Share Posted December 1, 2013 If Beijing doesn't make the shortlist, I'll be blown away. I see Oslo and Beijing as the only two sure bets for the shortlist. I think Beijing is borderline. Norway is ready, Almaty was ready in 2014 but left off and has improved, Sweden is compelling. Poland might be the victim of China then, but I don't think its likely. China for sure isn't going to get the third straight games in Asia, coupled with the snow sports venues being non-existent I think this is headed to not making the shortlist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Rols Posted December 1, 2013 Report Share Posted December 1, 2013 Yeah, but Sochi's infrastructure was non-existent as well. Yet there was never any doubt they'd be able to get it done. Ditto China. For all those who like the technical plans and scores, this is the stage where all that is the main criteria. And on a technically capable basis, I don't see how they could leave China of the list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted December 1, 2013 Report Share Posted December 1, 2013 They won't leave China off the short list...but China plays against a backdrop of what? THREE successive Olympics in East Asia? Surely, that alone is its biggest drawback and the Chinese know that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Coast Lions Posted December 1, 2013 Report Share Posted December 1, 2013 Almaty Kazakhstan is not like Sochi Russia they are already a major city linking West to East and the the financial capital of Kazakhstan, They already got about half of the venues in place for the Winter Olympics Games, The Almaty bid will be like the PyeongChang 2018 bid Sochi Russia have about 400,000 people while Almaty has 1.5 million people about the same size of Turin, It is like the final new horizon for the Winter Olympics Games in the Northern Hemisphere apart from Western Europe which never hosted the Winter Olympics Games before, President of Kazakhstan Nursultan Nazarbayev is like President Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, Pro Western and Western Values Turkey under the current ruling party is turning Turkey into a new Iran, Kazakhstan and Azerbaijan is the new old Turkey and Turkey is is the new Iran in the Islamic world. Almaty is a winter sporting hub now and is the only city in this race making a compact bid for the Winter Games, Norway is using Lilliehammer which is 180 km away while everything will be in the city of Almaty, The only things need to be build is the venues for ICE events and a sliding centre for sliding events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted December 1, 2013 Report Share Posted December 1, 2013 They won't leave China off the short list...but China plays against a backdrop of what? THREE successive Olympics in East Asia? Surely, that alone is its biggest drawback and the Chinese know that. I'm sure the Chinese also know that if both Stockholm & Oslo get cold feet, & just Krakow doesn't impress, that they're it. Beijing will merely be an insurance policy to the IOC. *& Krakow just doesn't impress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athensfan Posted December 1, 2013 Report Share Posted December 1, 2013 I think Beijing is borderline. Norway is ready, Almaty was ready in 2014 but left off and has improved, Sweden is compelling. Poland might be the victim of China then, but I don't think its likely. China for sure isn't going to get the third straight games in Asia, coupled with the snow sports venues being non-existent I think this is headed to not making the shortlist. I agree that Beijing won't host unless all kinds if crazy things happen. However, I think politics ensure they'll be on the short list. They could stage successful Winter Games and that's all that matters for the short list. I still think Beijing's position is more secure than Almaty, Krakow, Stockholm or Lviv. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted December 1, 2013 Report Share Posted December 1, 2013 I still think Beijing's position is more secure than Almaty, Krakow, Stockholm or Lviv. Agree with all but Stockholm. I can't see the IOC turning away a reliable nation like Sweden, that hasn't had an Olympics in over 101 years & never a Winter one, even though they're a traditional winter sports power, bcuz of one issue. Theirs is not more of a setback as any of those others, including Beijing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athensfan Posted December 1, 2013 Report Share Posted December 1, 2013 Agree with all but Stockholm. I can't see the IOC turning away a reliable nation like Sweden, that hasn't had an Olympics in over 101 years & never a Winter one, even though they're a traditional winter sports power, bcuz of one issue. Theirs is not more of a setback as any of those others, including Beijing. I guess time will tell. Beijing's handicap has nothing to do with logistics. Stockholm's does. Cultural variety is a want. Logistical viability is a need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted December 1, 2013 Report Share Posted December 1, 2013 Beijing's handicap has nothing to do with logistics. Stockholm's does. Cultural variety is a want. Logistical viability is a need. "We just don't know enough" information for the time being to make that type of final determination. We'll just have to "wait & see". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gangwon Posted December 2, 2013 Report Share Posted December 2, 2013 I totally agree. If many are citing that Almaty should make it on technical merit alone, the same could be said about Beijing. They have a lot of the venues already to host many of the ice events & arguably hosted good Summer Olympics. But politically speaking, I just can't see the IOC shunning the Chinese. Like Moscow 2012, Beijing 2022 will be in. Beijing may make the short list given the weak field, but in general I don't see the IOC being afraid to shun China. It shunned Harbin before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted December 2, 2013 Report Share Posted December 2, 2013 The BIG difference between Harbin 2010 & Beijing 2022, is that with the Harbin bid, Beijing 2008 had still not been hosted yet. So the IOC wasn't about to hand them over yet another set of Games, especially when that would've meant back-to-back Chinese Games, too, which lets be honest, would be a big no-no for anyone. An lets not forget that PyeongChang 2010 also played into the decision of leaving the Chinese out for that round. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athensfan Posted December 2, 2013 Report Share Posted December 2, 2013 "We just don't know enough" information for the time being to make that type of final determination. We'll just have to "wait & see". We can be absolutely certain that holding events in Are is a logistical handicap for Stockholm. You maintain it is a minor one while others see it as more major. We can also be certain that Beijing's handicap is a geopolitical one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted December 2, 2013 Report Share Posted December 2, 2013 You maintain it is a minor one while others see it as more major. I've NEVER maintained that it's a "minor" issue. I HAVE always acknowledged that the distance to Are is a major one, but not one to declare the bid DOA like you & some others here want to proclaim. I, as well as "others", also would like to see what the Swedes propose before shutting the door in their face like some on here want to quickly do. And considering the other 2022 alternatives (& having major, high quality bids like Munich & St. Moritz bail), the outlook for Stockholm looks promising. The only one that really poses a threat, considering all the other variables, is Oslo if the IOC does indeed have a problem with the distance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athensfan Posted December 2, 2013 Report Share Posted December 2, 2013 How can you be sure that Beijing, Almaty and Krakow don't pose a threat? None of them have the same degree of logistical handicap that Stockholm does. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted December 2, 2013 Report Share Posted December 2, 2013 Yes they do. How can you even say that. You really think that the IOC is gonna go with three consecutive Asian Olympics. Beijing is nothing but an insurance policy. And we don't enough about krakow for the time being to determine if they will be a contender. And Almaty? Please. What's so compelling about them, besides not much. And there too, they're Asian. We can split hairs all we want but at the end of the day, they're still in Asia. They're also still untested waters runned by the same government for the past 23 years. If the IOC didn't wanna deal with Erdogan, in an exotic locale that could've delivered spectacular Games, they're not going to some dreary, ex-soviet state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athensfan Posted December 2, 2013 Report Share Posted December 2, 2013 Yes they do. How can you even say that. You really think that the IOC is gonna go with three consecutive Asian Olympics. Beijing is nothing but an insurance policy. And we don't enough about krakow for the time being to determine if they will be a contender. And Almaty? Please. What's so compelling about them, besides not much. And there too, they're Asian. We can split hairs all we want but at the end of the day, they're still in Asia. They're also still untested waters runned by the same government for the past 23 years. If the IOC didn't wanna deal with Erdogan, in an exotic locale that could've delivered spectacular Games, they're not going to some dreary, ex-soviet state. Please look up the definition of "logistical." No other bid has the same degree of logistical handicap that Stockholm does. Of course you can take issue with the idea of more Asian Olympics, but that's not a logistical concern. It's a geopolitical one. In the grand scheme of things, the Games MUST be logistically sound. It would be nice if they could be geopolitically varied as well, but this is not equally essential. It's a matter of need vs. want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted December 2, 2013 Report Share Posted December 2, 2013 I know what "logistical" means, thanks anyway. But you seem to make it sound like the logistical aspect is all that matters. You also are making it sound like Sweden is some sort of backwater hole in the ground that's incapable of "logistics". You don't think that they'll be able to come up with some feasible plan that the IOC could consider. Stockholm in itself is a well-established city with all the infrastructure in place to take care of their end. Like South Africa, all Stockholm has to do is get on that short-list. Once that's accomplished, it'll be about emotional appeal as usual & the hell with "logistics". If the IOC really will take issue with the distance, then Stockholm won't get to candidate stage. But considering the other lackluster 2022 entrants, I don't believe the IOC will be quick to say "thanks, but no thanks". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athensfan Posted December 2, 2013 Report Share Posted December 2, 2013 I know what "logistical" means, thanks anyway. But you seem to make it sound like the logistical aspect is all that matters. You also are making it sound like Sweden is some sort of backwater hole in the ground that's incapable of "logistics". You don't think that they'll be able to come up with some feasible plan that the IOC could consider. Stockholm in itself is a well-established city with all the infrastructure in place to take care of their end. Like South Africa, all Stockholm has to do is get on that short-list. Once that's accomplished, it'll be about emotional appeal as usual & the hell with "logistics". If the IOC really will take issue with the distance, then Stockholm won't get to candidate stage. But considering the other lackluster 2022 entrants, I don't believe the IOC will be quick to say "thanks, but no thanks". If you know what it means, then why counter my statement about logistics with purely geopolitical concerns? I'm not saying the IOC will pick the best logistical plan, but they must pick a viable logistical plan. At this point it's unclear as to whether Stockholm's plan is viable. Viable logistics are ESSENTIAL. Continental rotation is merely PREFERABLE. Incidentally, Oslo offers both, so I suspect all the rest of this conversation is moot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted December 2, 2013 Report Share Posted December 2, 2013 If you know what it means, then why counter my statement about logistics with purely geopolitical concerns? Bcuz both go hand-in-hand, no matter how hard you're trying to separate them for your argument. That's the nature of the IOC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athensfan Posted December 2, 2013 Report Share Posted December 2, 2013 Bcuz both go hand-in-hand, no matter how hard you're trying to separate them for your argument. That's the nature of the IOC. Totally disagree. The IOC will not choose an unworkable bid just because its on a particular continent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted December 2, 2013 Report Share Posted December 2, 2013 Again, if the IOC will take issue, then it'll before the short-list & this then becomes Oslo's to lose. If not, everyone better look out for Stockholm. Totally disagree. The IOC will not choose an unworkable bid just because its on a particular continent. The only one that's saying it's "unworkable" here is you. You're not the IOC, & until the say otherwise, I also "totally disagree" with your assertion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athensfan Posted December 2, 2013 Report Share Posted December 2, 2013 Again, if the IOC will take issue, then it'll before the short-list & this then becomes Oslo's to lose. If not, everyone better look out for Stockholm. The only one that's saying it's "unworkable" here is you. You're not the IOC, & until the say otherwise, I also "totally disagree" with your assertion. Thanks for pointing out the obvious fact that I'm not the IOC. No argument there. We'll see what they decide soon enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted December 2, 2013 Report Share Posted December 2, 2013 You have no problems pointing out such obvious things when it suits your arguments. And yes we will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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