Kraków 2022

[baron-pierreIV]

Well, I can tell at this early stage that Stock-Are may NOT even make the short list. If I were there, I would cut them off at the pass. That distance is anti-Olympic.

[FYI]

I can't see the Swedes not making the short-list based on just ONE drawback. The Swedes have everything else going for them not to be considered for contention. Especially when we have senior IOC officials already expressing their discontent over other traditional hopefuls that have pulled the plug on their 2022 bids. The only thing that could derail this now are the Swedes themselves. If it were the case of the distance itself, though, we can also say that Krakow, with it's bi-national proposal, could also not make the short-list bcuz that approach is "anti-Olympic", too.

[baron-pierreIV]

I can't see the Swedes not making the short-list based on just ONE drawback. The Swedes have everything else going for them not to be considered for contention. Especially when we have senior IOC officials already expressing their discontent over other traditional hopefuls that have pulled the plug on their 2022 bids. The only thing that could derail this now are the Swedes themselves. If it were the case of the distance itself, though, we can also say that Krakow, with it's bi-national proposal, could also not make the short-list bcuz that approach is "anti-Olympic", too.

C'mon, doncha think I can see when it's being twisted all outta shape. A bi-national bid is allowed. It specifically says so in the Charter. AGAIN, it's happened 2x before (w/ Sweden, no less, as the partner in one bi-national staging (and that was a SUMMER Games, too), and CAN happen again. But if I were to choose between the 2022 Swedish bid and Krakow's, I could very easily go with Krakow's bid. The distances are manageable. Sweden's almost 2.5x Krakow-Jasna's distance. I mean,,, other people can DO the arithmetic...WITHOUT blinders.

[StefanMUC]

And again, it's all coming down to whether the IOC is willing to ignore the distance issue with Stockholm-Åre or not. That's probably the biggest question mark of 2022.

As this thread is about Kraków however, I think that venue plan is a good compromise, a bit similar to what Munich's idea was, with three or four areas within a certain radius.

[FYI]

C'mon, doncha think I can see when it's being twisted all outta shape. A bi-national bid is allowed. It specifically says so in the Charter. AGAIN, it's happened 2x before (w/ Sweden, no less, as the partner in one bi-national staging (and that was a SUMMER Games, too), and CAN happen again.

LMFAO! I just LUV the double-standards here! So bcuz "it specifically says so in the Charter, & bcuz it's happened once before (& with 'Sweden', no less) that means a bi-national bid "can" happen again?! C'mon, baron, you know better than that! Stockholm was selected for the 1956 Equestrian events AFTER Melbourne was awarded the 1956 Summer Olympics, bcuz the Australians wouldn't budge on the strict, horse quarantine laws for the Olympics. So it's not like the IOC was looking for a "partner" to organize Equestrian half a world away, & half a year earlier to boot.

But anyway, getting to the double standards, so bcuz of literally thousands of miles apart (not to mention the six month earlier thing) in 1956, this makes Krakow's bi-national proposition all the more credible. Yet Stockholm/Are (even though both are within the same borders) can't hold the Winter Olympics, with no time gap mind you, (that was all the Australian's doing), is hindered & 1956 doesn't help them but does the Poles. Uh huh, I see. And even though "the Charter" (which the IOC can bend whenever it feels like it) doesn't 'specifically' say anything about distance between the Alpine events.

C'mon, you know that had spread legs, wide open SactoReno was in the 2022 picture, you'd also be digging a grave for Krakow's two-country proposal, too, just like you are for Stockholm (& Oslo), & telling all those Reno naysayers otherwise.

But if I were to choose between the 2022 Swedish bid and Krakow's, I could very easily go with Krakow's bid. The distances are manageable. Sweden's almost 2.5x Krakow-Jasna's distance. I mean,,, other people can DO the arithmetic...WITHOUT blinders.

You'd still have to deal with two NOC's & two governments, which wouldn't be a walk in the park, either.

I think that venue plan is a good compromise, a bit similar to what Munich's idea was, with three or four areas within a certain radius.

That's another thing, I mentioned when Munich was still probable in bidding how it may have been more compact, but still had more clusters to deal with than most. But that didn't seem to be a hindrance at all to them, since hardly no one ever brought it up. IDK, but I'd say that two-clusters is better to deal with than four, even if the two are a bit farther apart.

[baron-pierreIV]

whistling in the wind, FYI...

[FYI]

C'mon, doncha think I can see when it's being twisted all outta shape.

whistling in the wind, FYI...

I know exactly what ya mean!

[zekekelso]

Well, I can tell at this early stage that Stock-Are may NOT even make the short list. If I were there, I would cut them off at the pass. That distance is anti-Olympic.

Right /sarcasm, which is why there are venues that disntant in almost every SOG.

[baron-pierreIV]

Did anybody say anything? I heard some garbled chatter there for a moment.

[Lord David]

Right /sarcasm, which is why there are venues that disntant in almost every SOG.

Yes, for the likes of sailing, especially for cities inland. But when it comes to the WOG, a premier event like Alpine Skiing should ideally be at most outside the city, within 1-2 hours drive.

[markun]

Ideally perhaps. But you can't have your Olympic cake and eat it. The winter games are growing but the list of potential hosts is shrinking. Something has to give.

[Lord David]

Which is why Stockholm will never get the games. Especially with this attitude. Better wait till the 2202 games at this rate where Ostersund might have a population 1 million by then.

Edited November 25, 2013 by Lord David

[baron-pierreIV]

But you can't have your Olympic cake and eat it.

Why not -- if there are other better packages? What's the point of having the "cake" and leaving it un-eaten?

Something has to give.

Well, that would have to be wildly un-realistic concepts like one...separated 528km away!!

[zekekelso]

Yes, for the likes of sailing, especially for cities inland. But when it comes to the WOG, a premier event like Alpine Skiing should ideally be at most outside the city, within 1-2 hours drive.

There's a difference between saying something is "less than ideal" and saying it's "un-Olympic." There's a difference between saying something is a negative factor for a bid, and saying it's a disqualifier.

[StefanMUC]

I'm beginning to wonder whether this is the Kraków or the Stockholm thread...

[FYI]

^That's why it's always interesting that the bid that some people critique the most, is the one most likely seen as the biggest threat, akin to what some on here do with South Africa.

Why not -- if there are other better packages? What's the point of having the "cake" and leaving it un-eaten?

"other better packages"?! Well, that would only be ONE, which you always critique as "been there, done that", & therefore "Oslo is not getting 2022". And then we have ONE other maybe that has a bi-national con. And the rest of the lot are really non-starters. So no, not really other better packages.

Well, that would have to be wildly un-realistic concepts like one...separated 528km away!!

Or one in unattested waters with a dual-country approach! :-P

[Pixie_Victoria]

^That's why it's always interesting that the bid that some people critique the most, is the one most likely seen as the biggest threat

A threat to logic, good sense, and the good proceeding of winter olympics, yes definitely. A threat to innovation and entertainment, yes as well. Other than that, it's no threat at all.

But I agree with Stefan and think debates should go back to Krakow , which is worth more interest anyway.

[Athensfan]

I don't see Stockholm as a "threat." And I don't have a horse in this race.

[FYI]

A threat to logic, good sense, and the good proceeding of winter olympics, yes definitely. A threat to innovation and entertainment, yes as well. Other than that, it's no threat at all.

Well, gee. That sounds like quite a threat afterall. So I don't see what you're trying to get at with this line.

But I agree with Stefan and think debates should go back to Krakow , which is worth more interest anyway.

That's your own subjective opinion. And threads many times go a bit off tangent. Besides, Krakow is still part of the discussion. It's not like it's gone totally off subject.

I don't see Stockholm as a "threat." And I don't have a horse in this race.

Right. You're not the one bidding. So why would you.

[StefanMUC]

Most of these horses in this race are old mares on the way to the abbatoir or young foals just trying to jump over their first moat with far too short legs.

[Athensfan]

Right. You're not the one bidding. So why would you.

You're not bidding either, but obviously you've picked your favorite and have hitched your wagon to Stockholm.

I honestly don't care who wins 2022. That means I've got no hidden agenda and can look at this race without personal bias.

From my perspective, Stockholm cannot seriously challenge due to the proposed distances. Therefore, they are not a threat.

As for Krakow, until we have more information, it's not clear how much potential the bid has.

[FYI]

You're not bidding either, but obviously you've picked your favorite and have hitched your wagon to Stockholm.

I honestly don't care who wins 2022. That means I've got no hidden agenda and can look at this race without personal bias.

Don't you have a little affinity towards Almaty, though.

From my perspective, Stockholm cannot seriously challenge due to the proposed distances. Therefore, they are not a threat.

You don't know that. Until we see their plans, & how the IOC reacts to them, one can't make a final assertion like that.

As for Krakow, until we have more information, it's not clear how much potential the bid has.

I agree here. Baron is the one that's totally in love with Krakow, though.

[baron-pierreIV]

I agree here. Baron is the one that's totally in love with Krakow, though.

I'm not "totally in love" with it. I just think it's the most viable of all the bids..could be right geo-politically...and Polish culture has never been in the spotlight in an Olympic Games. I want to see new motifs and themes. Tired of all that Scandinavian stuff.

[FYI]

Tired of all that Scandinavian stuff.

That's what you were saying about the "boring" Japanese, too. 'Til you came around right before the vote. ;-)

[baron-pierreIV]

That's what you were saying about the "boring" Japanese, too. 'Til you came around right before the vote. ;-)

I was just being a pragmatist...just as I am about the 2022 candidates. Doesn't mean I'm thrilled or excited about how Japan will stage their 2020 ceremonies. I mean other than the trolls, Vetti and the Vikings -- what else do the Scandinavians have that I want to see? Not much.