Kraków 2022

[Pixie_Victoria]

Lots of innovations seem to be coming up from this bid. More than expected. I just saw a logo contest was launched in Poland, and have had the echo of many other originalities about the bid itself. Looking forward to having more details about it.

[p85]

So Czech Rep. likely follows the Finland scenario...

Sadly, Poland is next to follow that destination. It's even more depressing since Poland has suitable downhill slopes, but just can't use it.

[p85]

Lots of innovations seem to be coming up from this bid. More than expected.

Like what?

I just saw a logo contest was launched in Poland, and have had the echo of many other originalities about the bid itself. Looking forward to having more details about it.

Yes, the logo contest was just launched, the deadline is Decemeber the 30. I don't really understand the rest of your post.

[Pixie_Victoria]

Innovations as for the building of the nwly built track of Myslenice. But I dont have many details so far . Gotta wait.

[Pixie_Victoria]

The Tatras. Thats another of the originalities....

[Pixie_Victoria]

Was also refering to the project for the opening ceremony, and other architectural plans like the ICE center, or hockey place.

[p85]

Ok, now I get it

The Tatras. Thats another of the originalities....

Tatras aren't really that new (Poprad 2002 and 2006, Zakopane 2006) Czechoslovakia had planned the bid with Poprad for 1984 WOG but they finally withdrew. They might have won it, considering Sarajevo being finally awarded.

Innovations as for the building of the nwly built track of Myslenice. But I dont have many details so far . Gotta wait.

Bobleigh/luge/skeleton track would be built on the Chełm Mountain slopes in Myslenice. There is already a ski resort there. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EGFIXbqHR4 very popular with cross-bikers in summer as you can see (4:56, the buildings are southern outskirts of Krakow).

The track itself would be built on the opposite site of the Chełm Mountian.

Doesn't look good but it's just a basic plan:

Was also refering to the project for the opening ceremony, and other architectural plans like the ICE center, or hockey place.

Opening ceremony and hockey venues are those two that can be still changed. I kinda like the Błonie Meadows outdoors ceremony, but many people think the whole thing should be moved to Wisla Stadium. And then one hockey venue would be moved to Oświęcim (better known for foreigners as Auschwitz) I might be better for legacy reasons (Oświęcim has a really good hockey team) but it definetelly kills the compactness of Krakow zone.

[StefanMUC]

Innovations as for the building of the nwly built track of Myslenice. But I dont have many details so far . Gotta wait.

Building a luge track has been a prerequisite for any bid of the last few decades, not what I would call innovative.

The only bids I can think of that would have made use of an existing tracks were the Salzburg and Munich bids, as well as the failed Swiss attempts. Oslo is the only one now not in need of building a new one.

And there's all this "legacy" talk: As a German, I'm quite happy to have the sliding events as they provide high medal counts, but make no mistake, maintaining tracks post-Olympic and finding use for them is extremely difficult and likely a tight rope around taxpayers' necks in their region.

[NorwayOlympics]

I do not think that I have previously posted this here:

Distances for Krakow 2022 without the Alpine site in Slovakia (in fact Poland could stage the giant slalom and slalom events themself)

Krakow - Myslenice - Zakopane = 106 km

Krakow cluster: Opening and Closing ceremonies, Medal ceremonies (Main market square or Wawel hill), Olympic/Paralympic Village, IBC, MMC, Ice hockey 1, Ice hockey 2, Curling, Figure skating/Short-track, Speed skating, Bobsleigh, luge and skeleton (Myslenice (Bobsleigh track 30 km outside of Krakow)).

Zakopane cluster: Medal ceremonies, Biathlon, Ski jumping, Cross-country skiing, Nordic Combined, Snowboard (halfpipe, slopestyle, Snowboard slalom, Snowboard cross), Freestyle skiing (moguls, aerials, slopestyle, and ski-cross).

Some of the venue plans (which yet have not been posted on Gamesbids forums):

Bobsleigh-track: Myslenice

Cross-country skiing below the Giewont in central Zakopane (In the lower right corner you can see the large ski-jumping hill in Zakopane):

Edited November 20, 2013 by NorwayOlympics

[intoronto]

Dude. He IS on topic. At least Pluto's a planet. Going off topic would be like Earth-Mars-Pluto...Revolving restaurants.

Lmfao

[baron-pierreIV]

Lmfao

yeah, had me in stitches too.

[Gangwon]

Lmfao

Thank youuuuu! I'll be here all night!! Be sure to tip the waitress, she's been lovely...

[Faster]

Slovaks don't need to use Jasna in their Olympic bids, I don't think they even listed it in 2002 and 2006 Poprad-Tatry bid. They have great selection of mountain slopes to choose. Slovakia's problem might be more or less similar to Sweden - they don't have bigger city situated near the mountains. Poprad is 52,000 inh., it could have been OK for 2006 bid, but it's insufficient for future bids, especially for newbies.

Bratislava is out because of the reasons StefanMUC listed. The nearest bigger city is Kosice, 2013 European Capital of Culture, big when it comes to hockey (they co-hosted 2011 IIHF WC), but there are probably financial problems/doubts.The next one bigger city is Presov (91,000).

Poland really seems like the best choice if we consider the whole Central-East European/post-Soviet/Carpathian chunk.

- Czech Republic may be OK with financing the whole thing but they lack an alpine skiing venue (I might be wrong). But if they had one, they'd bid for Winter Games before, instead of having pushed that Praha 2016 bid. Furthermore, they don't have bigger-mountain city that could handle it. The best choice would be, what? Liberec?

- Ukraine will come back after the 2022 defeat. Lviv is good and compact bid but more suited for 2040s.,

- Hungarian mountains are to small.

- Romania could bid with Brasov, but they have bigger problems than staging WOG. They don't really have a big medal account in Winter Games, which really suprised me.

Staying in post-Soviet area we are left with:

- Bulgaria has the same problems like Romania. They bid for 2014 and got rejected. Their best shot was def 1992.

- Slovenia, preferably Ljubljana. Didn't they withdraw a bid for Winter Universiade or something, for financial reasons? They're out, unless the IOC let them stage half of olympic competitions in Klagenfurt, or Italy.

- B&H, Sarajevo, they bid for 2010. Sorry, nope...

- Serbia is out for the same reason as Hungary,

- Albania, Macedonia - they're OK with natural conditions (mountain slopes) but they're out for numerous of political and financial reasons.

What's really wonders me is Croatia. They have a considerable medal account in WOG, Zagreb is bigger than Krakow, and it's located at mountain slopes (national park though...) They might be a contender in 2040s, even earlier.

Bulgaria's only issue is economy. If they had an economy even on the scale of the Czech Republic, it woud be possible.

Croatia does not have the mountains. Its why they excell at Slalom.

[intoronto]

Bulgaria also suffers with a lack of winter tradition and a winter sport tradition that is in decline (2006-2014 athletes having been decreasing at each games).

[p85]

So the initial venues plan might look like this (nothing official, just my own poor scetch):

Krakow Zone

Zakopane Zone

Jasna Zone (Jasna and Zakopane might be joint and presented as one Tatras Zone)

---------------------------

Two firms - PriceWaterhouseCoopers and Event Knowledge Services - compete for preparation of Krakow 2022 applicantion file.

[Palette86]

Excellent maps by p85 .

The entire Krakow zone is compact more than I imagined. I found a couple of marks(icons?)of subway or railway station but are they enough for the city and WOG?

[baron-pierreIV]

Very compact! I like it!!

[p85]

I found a couple of marks(icons?)of subway or railway station but are they enough for the city and WOG?

Those are just selected / main railway stations. There's also a railway station next to the airport (I didn't mark it) so you can get to the city centre in less than 20 minutes.

Some stations could be built, some will be renovated and expanded. The whole Urban Rail Transport System for Krakow is planned for like 15 years. Getting to the the Candidate City stage would be a great kick for politics for move on with that plan.

Krakow subway is just out of the question right now.

The entire Krakow zone is compact more than I imagined.

I really hope they'll go with that venues. They might move hockey venues and it'll be a death kiss for the compactness.

[FYI]

Very compact! I like it!!

"Compact" is overrated. Lets remember how Rio's 2016 spread eagle bid won the day. And how "very compact" Madrid 2020 was shown the door first.

[Palette86]

Those are just selected / main railway stations. There's also a railway station next to the airport (I didn't mark it) so you can get to the city centre in less than 20 minutes.

Some stations could be built, some will be renovated and expanded. The whole Urban Rail Transport System for Krakow is planned for like 15 years. Getting to the the Candidate City stage would be a great kick for politics for move on with that plan.

Krakow subway is just out of the question right now.

I really hope they'll go with that venues. They might move hockey venues and it'll be a death kiss for the compactness.

"Compact" is overrated. Lets remember how Rio's 2016 spread eagle bid won the day. And how "very compact" Madrid 2020 was shown the door first.

Krakow 2022 is a joint bid so when you include Zakopane and Jasna the plan may not be so compact,but IMO as for Krakow zone it is compact I think.

[baron-pierreIV]

"Compact" is overrated. Lets remember how Rio's 2016 spread eagle bid won the day. And how "very compact" Madrid 2020 was shown the door first.

I don't expect the SUmmer cities to be too compact. They 3x the size of a WOG; so they'll have to be spread out. Krakow is COMPACT compared to the 528km of Sweden. I really don't see how that distance can be sugar-coated.

[StefanMUC]

"Compact" is overrated. Lets remember how Rio's 2016 spread eagle bid won the day. And how "very compact" Madrid 2020 was shown the door first.

Agree. I said in another thread some weeks ago that the concept of compactness may shy away potential bidders because they simply cannot find space for a compact area, and would also perhaps find it more useful for afterwards to spread facilities in their city, not just one or two particular quarters. That's an issue for both Winter and Summer bids IMHO.

I think it's just one of those superlatives bids like to stress on but which may not be all-important for the IOC.

[NorwayOlympics]

So the initial venues plan might look like this (nothing official, just my own poor scetch):

Krakow Zone

Jasna Zone (Jasna and Zakopane might be joint and presented as one Tatras Zone)

---------------------------

Two firms - PriceWaterhouseCoopers and Event Knowledge Services - compete for preparation of Krakow 2022 applicantion file.

Zakopane Zone (They should use the potential of Nosal)

Nosal:

Edited November 24, 2013 by NorwayOlympics

[zekekelso]

I don't know how much the IOC voters really care about compactness, but they sure as heck aren't going to choose venues with big Carlsberg signs

[FYI]

I don't expect the SUmmer cities to be too compact. They 3x the size of a WOG; so they'll have to be spread out.

But it's been said here that the Summer Olympics are actually more "compact" than the Winter Olympics bcuz of the nature of the Alpine events. And again, Madrid WAS actually offering up compact several times, but the IOC clearly said thanks, but no thanks. Not to mention that Rio's competition was also offering up more compact venue plans than the Brazilians were, so IDK how you can say that "you don't expect the summer cities to be too compact" when clearly it's possible. But Rio trumped all bcuz it was the most compelling.

Krakow is COMPACT compared to the 528km of Sweden. I really don't see how that distance can be sugar-coated.

We really don't know how the IOC's going to react to the 350 miles to Are. And we also don't know how the Swedes are going to respond to this concern yet either. And we won't know until the applicant files are due. And if the IOC still has a problem with it, there's always Oslo. Yeah, Krakow could be a contender. But here too, we also won't know that until the applicant files are due. Still not convinced yet if the Poles could pull it off. But they're definitely in a better position than Lviv & far-flung Almaty are.