Kraków 2022

[Tony E Loves Architecture]

Not Funny.

[FYI]

Why would Rome be a favorite if they bid for 2024? I mean if they actually go for it and not bail out at the last minute with everything pretty much done (including supposed government support) as was in 2020.

If Rome does go the whole way for 2024, I expect it to of course become a candidate, but lose early in the voting round (unless of course there happens to be no real other credible candidates) It will be definitely punished by the IOC come voting due to it's failure to not live up to its bid promises for 2020. Particularly at a time when the IOC is desperate for bidders.

Had it only considered bidding, then that's different, but the NOC went ahead and it was at the last moment that the Italians pulled out. Why should the IOC be giving them any favors? Or would it be some sort of cunning deception to make everyone focus on a supposed "strong" Rome bid when the real winner ends up being someone else. Give the Italians false hopes and such.

This is one of the most flawed logics I have ever read on these boards. Why would the IOC "punish" the Italians for merely exercising reality & practicality, unlike another wreckless Mediterreanian neighbor, which having everything ready & in place didn't do them any good anyway & were the first ones out in the 2020 vote.

At least the Italians withdrew before the applicant files were due, & not a couple of years after they actually won the Games, like some certain Rocky Mountain city did, but many here still don't think that's enough to 'punish' them for it, so I don't see the IOC exercising no such begrudgement against the Italians. Had they withdrew during the campaign, or even right before the short-list was announced, then maybe. And that would be a big maybe at that.

Btw, Berne withdrew only a couple of months after the 2010 short-list was announced, but many considered St. Moritz 2022 as an early favorite. Oh, & Almaty also withdrew their 2002 bid from consideration before those applicant files were due. So I guess going by your wonderful wisdom, "the IOC will definitely punish the Kazachks" when they bid again. :-P

And Rome would be a favorite in any given race bcuz it's Rome. It's not like we're talking about a Baku, Almaty or Tulsa here. It's fricken Rome, for Pete's sake. And considering how the IOC is now seeing first-hand, caliber cities like Munich, St. Moritz, etc, run the other way, they should actually thank their lucky stars that the Italians actually wanna come back & take on the financial burden of their extremely expensive extravanganza.

[breathesgelatin]

BTW. "Oslo, Norway has already announced that its bid will not use consultants and instead rely on internal resources."

We all really know what that means, yeah?

No, what does it mean?

Besides, what IOC Prrsidents say and what the IOC votes for may be completely different things anyway, cue Rogge's attempts for more modest/downsized Games and then the Sochi decision...

I don't think Kraków has to worry about that.

That was EXACTLY my line of thought, actually. What if the other cities do not hire consultants, and then Kraków ends up the winner? Very similar to the Sochi situation.

Of course, maybe everyone but Oslo will end up hiring consultants.

[petrpetr]

That was EXACTLY my line of thought, actually. What if the other cities do not hire consultants, and then Kraków ends up the winner? Very similar to the Sochi situation.

Of course, maybe everyone but Oslo will end up hiring consultants.

Also this is first time of Krakow bidding for such a huge event. Hiring consulting company is to touch modern bidding stardards as it was said. This doesnt mean Krakow bid cant be innovative (but actually i dont see anything extra-ordinary in Krakows bid ;-) )

[Tony E Loves Architecture]

Also this is first time of Krakow bidding for such a huge event. Hiring consulting company is to touch modern bidding stardards as it was said. This doesnt mean Krakow bid cant be innovative (but actually i dont see anything extra-ordinary in Krakows bid ;-) )

I still think in my personal opinion, that what will hold the Krakow Bid back is Co-Hosting with another Country with Jasna, Slovakia.

[Palette86]

I still think in my personal opinion, that what will hold the Krakow Bid back is Co-Hosting with another Country with Jasna, Slovakia.

This is "Krakow 2022" by Poland not co-hosting bid.You can read this;http://www.gamesbids.com/forums/topic/23264-slovak-report-on-joint-2022-winter-bid/page-4

[Lord David]

I still think in my personal opinion, that what will hold the Krakow Bid back is Co-Hosting with another Country with Jasna, Slovakia.

This is not a Polish and Slovakian joint bid. It's been clear from the Polish side that they'll only be using Jasna becasue it's a preexisting ski resort. There are mountains in Poland that could theoretically host, but environmental concerns make it unlikely that they will ever be developed.

This bid will simply be considered much like Salzburg's bids in 2010 and 2014 which proposed the use of Germany's sliding track because it was close to the city. Not to mention that that country already had a sliding track in Innsbruck and clearly did not need one in Salzburg.

I'm also sure that a deciding factor for Poland not to propose one of it's own "slopes" or mountains for Men's Downhill was of course the 2006 Zakopane bid. Which probably proposed such an idea which of course got the environmental freaks in an uproar.

Now whether this idea of shifting the Men's Downhill events to a slope in a neighbouring country will work remains to be seen. I wouldn't be surprised of either outcome. The IOC agreeing to let Krakow through because of the compact plan and it's pro environment approach or the alternative, where the IOC deny Krakow based on that one hinderance. Don't be surprised if Krakow throws out the environmental card next time they bid and go with a proposed downhill slope in within Polish borders.

It's clearly not co-hosting. The most there will be in applicant and candidate files is of course the mentioning that Jasna happens to be in another country, transport links for the region mention in charts, accommodation in Jasna mentioned in charts and perhaps 2 small letters of support from the mayor of Jasna and government of Slovakia providing the guarantee that Jasna's slopes will be made available for Olympic events.

Nearby city of Proprad-Tatry which bid for 2002 and 2006 would have been cited for it's transport links (and possibly accommodation) regardless of Jasna's involvement in a Krakow Olympics.

And all this is the reason of course why Krakow is the possible dark horse. It will fight with Stockholm for 4th place candidate spot or if Bach really wants to make the bid process more interesting, only Lviv will be eliminated for obvious reasons.

[StefanMUC]

Environmental "freaks"....well, to each their own, but disregarding ecological impact of an event like the WOG is very much out of place in a democratic 21st century country (like Poland) IMHO. And if the IOC was living what it preached, it shouldn't shove those "freaks" aside either.

[Lord David]

^^ Yes. But you get my point. There might just be some in the IOC who are willing to throw the whole environmental chapter out the window just so they can keep their sacred games within one country. But of course there are plenty of other credible bidders who are doing that, so Krakow will win when the IOC is willing to put that aside and more importantly if Krakow offers something really compelling.

[petrpetr]

All was said by Lord David.There is only one mountain in Poland with possible slope proper to OG downhill requirements. It's Kasprowy Wierch, but it is a part of Tatra National Park. And Im gonna risk the statement, that if IOC will ban Krakow bid because of 'outsourcing' of alpine sports to Slovakia then there won't be polish WOG bid for many years. No chances to grub forest, extend the current slope and build a reservoir of water for snowmaking in borders of national park. Zakopane 2006 bid was madness, nothing comparable with what Krakow is going to offer.

[p85]

@p85 or @other Polish members,

There are many hotels available.Are these too enough for your OG or you think you need to construct more?

To be honest, I can't give you a reliable answer. I think this is may be beyond our expertise. We all just should wait for an official applicant bid-book.

Personally, I think the accomodation in Krakow area is OK, it's a top Polish foreign tourist destination, but many of them are young people just staying in lower-price hostels.

There might be a little shortage in 4-,5-stars hotels required by IOC standards. This can be easily resolved in 7-year period, for example: the Hilton Hotel is just being constructed next to the Krakow Airport. If Krakow got shortlisted, other international hotel chains are expected to follow.

Jasna in Slovakia, with Liptovsky Mikulas as a main hotel center, looks like a sufficient option. The proposed alpine skiing slope is certified by IFS, they're already packed with tourists, and Poprad, just 60 km away, is properly conected to Jansa by D1-motorway, railway track, and International Poprad-Tatry Airport.

To sum up, Krakow Ice Zone and Jasna,Slovakia are both OK when it comes to accomodation. I'm more worried about Zakopane.

breathesgelatin

p85, on 04 Jan 2014 - 12:27 AM, said:

BTW. "Oslo, Norway has already announced that its bid will not use consultants and instead rely on internal resources."

We all really know what that means, yeah?

No, what does it mean?

I have my own unproofed theory, but I'm not going to say it out loud. I shouldn't have posted it anyway...

That's the problem when you're coming from a bidding city, you can't really critisize any decisions or plans coming from other bidding cities.

[Palette86]

@p85 Thanks so much for answering my question. I was a little bit concerned but things seem to be alright . For Zakopane I'll learn more y my myself from now. I'm surprised that Krakow is a top sight seeing site than Warsaw.Looking at this city makes me feel warm. Anyway,thanks again .

[Gangwon]

@p85 Thanks so much for answering my question. I was a little bit concerned but things seem to be alright . For Zakopane I'll learn more y my myself from now. I'm surprised that Krakow is a top sight seeing site than Warsaw.Looking at this city makes me feel warm. Anyway,thanks again .

Krakow was thankfully spared much destruction during WW2, unlike Warsaw, which was completely destroyed. Krakow would be the best choice for international visitors.

[petrpetr]

Personally, I think the accomodation in Krakow area is OK, it's a top Polish foreign tourist destination, but many of them are young people just staying in lower-price hostels.

On the other hand look at Prague 2016 bid marks of accomodation. IMHO accomodation conditions of Prague are better than Krakows. Both cities are similarly tourist destination, but Prague is also capital and is 50% larger. Prague bid had miserable marks of accomodation.

I looked in Krakow application for Euro 2012. In 2009 there were above 30 000 of beds in hotels (7 *****hotels), and 17 hotels in construction to be finished before Euro 2012. I have no idea what that numbers means in comparision to another cities.

[StefanMUC]

On the other hand look at Prague 2016 bid marks of accomodation. IMHO accomodation conditions of Prague are better than Krakows. Both cities are similarly tourist destination, but Prague is also capital and is 50% larger. Prague bid had miserable marks of accomodation.

I looked in Krakow application for Euro 2012. In 2009 there were above 30 000 of beds in hotels (7 *****hotels), and 17 hotels in construction to be finished before Euro 2012. I have no idea what that numbers means in comparision to another cities.

Prague had a miserable bid overall, and accomodation needs for Summer Games are higher too, I think.

Sure Oslo, Stockholm and Beijing won't struggle to fulfil accomodation requirements, but as you said, Kraków with its strong tourist industry should be able to cater for the IOC's needs.

[Lord David]

Even Krakow would be wise to propose media accommodation in both Krakow and Zakopane/Tatras cluster. So the expected overall accommodation numbers should be 25-30,000 rooms in Krakow and 10,000 rooms elsewhere.

[petrpetr]

It seems Krakow has hired an outside consultancy to assist with bid preparation:

http://www.insidethe...ce-in-2022-race

Just to extend this information.

Krakow receive 2 offers of consulting. Suiss EKS won against PricewaterhouseCoopers. Both offered this same budget. EKS was working with Rio 2016 bid in the past.

[Lord David]

I'd personally get whoever they consult to look at the 2006 Zakopane bid and see if they can use some of that information.

[petrpetr]

I'm probably making a little off-topic.

In my spare time i created concept of Krakow 2022 design. Just to look for interested guys:

https://www.behance.net/gallery/Krakow-2022/13494139

[Lord David]

If Krakow has a public design contest for their bid logo, you should submit yours.

[Palette86]

I'm probably making a little off-topic.

In my spare time i created concept of Krakow 2022 design. Just to look for interested guys:

https://www.behance.net/gallery/Krakow-2022/13494139

Good logo.I like 2nd one.

[baron-pierreIV]

I am heartened to hear that Krakow/Poland is putting this bid together the right & professional way it should.

[StefanMUC]

I'd go as far as saying that Kraków is the sentimental fave on here.

Oslo promises great enthusiasm and perfect organisation, but in a very well known environment without any "suspense".

Nobody gives Lviv a hope in hell.

Beijing is not exactly a crowd pleaser either, FYI's "insurance policy" theory seems a good description.

Almaty may have potential but is too anonymous as a city.

Stockholm is clearly the most controversial of them all.

But Kraków is making me and many others the most curious I guess. I still think the IOC won't hand it to them over Oslo or even Stockholm, but they deserve credit definitely.

[petrpetr]

Two brand new informations from Krakow:

1) Here is the interview with Jagna Marczulajtis-Walczak - head of Krakow bid comitee

http://sportetsociete.org/2014/01/13/jo-2022-les-jeux-renforceront-limage-de-cracovie-dans-le-monde-entier/

In french, but google translator made it understandable even for me ;-)

What is interesting she answered for question 'what is main advantage of Krakow bid' in this way:

http://sportetsociete.org/2014/01/13/jo-2022-les-jeux-renforceront-limage-de-cracovie-dans-le-monde-entier/

Interesting. It seems Krakow wants to make main advantage of bid from fact that is said here to be main disadvantage. Boldly IMHO. Ahead of IOC strike? Innovative enough in Bach's meaning?

2) Krakow is making international advertisement of bid. The main star will be Alicja Bachleda (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0045461/) International actress from Zakopane, studied in Krakow. Mostly known for her relationship with Colin Farell - both has a son ;-). Sorry if that was too junky news ;-]

Photos of making Krakow2022 ad here: http://www.pudelek.pl/artykul/62781/bachledacurus_kreci_reklame_olimpiady_w_krakowie/

Dont know why quote from previous post didnt work. Im talking about this answer from interview:

" Our main advantage is to locate alpine skiing in Slovakia, where the infrastructure is already in place, which in no way affect the environment of the Tatra National Park. Every decision we make is also measured from the environmental point of view. "

// omg why there is no possibility to edit post -> i made a little mess here.

[PaStKaz]

http://www.olympic.sk/aktuality-sov/vysledky-prieskumu-verejnej-mienky-na-liptove-vyrazne-v-prospech-zjazdoveho-lyzovania-v-jasnej-v-projekte-krakova-na-zoh-2022

In poll 79% residents of Liptovsky Mikulas region where alpine skiing will take place in case of Kraków win, said yes for Winter Olympic Games there.