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1 hour ago, Nacre said:

The 4.8% increase in tourism is almost certainly due to the currency dropping 40% to the US dollar in 2016 rather than the Olympics.

So you're saying they went despite the Olympics? Or that you think in-bound figures would have grown even more without them? It dosn't really matter how you wanna interpret those figures though, they mean that that particular blanket statement can't be used any more. 

And even before then, what about Barcelona? And before you say they were already growing their tourism before their Olympics, it was their games that really put them atmospherically on the map.

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12 hours ago, Sir Rols said:

I love this sentence: "They injected $6.2 billion into the Brazilian economy, compared to $5.84 billion in 2015."

Even if we assume 100% of the increase is due to the Olympics (dubious assumption, but let's go with it) you can see what the Olympics are worth, and it ain't that much. 

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10 hours ago, Sir Rols said:

 

And even before then, what about Barcelona? And before you say they were already growing their tourism before their Olympics, it was their games that really put them atmospherically on the map.

At what point do we start treating Barcelona like Atlanta.... an unusual set of circumstances that are unlike to repeat themselves. 

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1 hour ago, zekekelso said:

At what point do we start treating Barcelona like Atlanta.... an unusual set of circumstances that are unlike to repeat themselves. 

It's now almost been 25 years since Barcelona.. how are we not treating it that way already?  (Said on a day that America just swore in Donald Trump as it's new POTUS, speaking of things that should have been obvious a long time ago and yet some people still don't realize how dumb they are)

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2 hours ago, zekekelso said:

At what point do we start treating Barcelona like Atlanta.... an unusual set of circumstances that are unlike to repeat themselves. 

That's the case for every Games, they are unique to their time and place, just as every bid cycle has its own dynamics, challenges and driving forces. Hence why its always fraught to draw too many lessons and conclusions from bid cycles of the past, or to make blanket statements like the games always reduce tourism.

On to that point, some cities stand to benefit more in the tourism regard than others. A city like Barcelona in the early 90s, or Rio now, can do good with the exposure. On the other hand, It's arguable whether cities like London, Paris or LA need to promote themselves as a tourism destination at all - though its probably always good for them to restate their charms to the world.

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17 hours ago, Nacre said:

The Olympics reduce tourism.

The three times I've been to Paris, it almost seemed to be overwhelmingly tourist, and a large percentage of them Chinese.

And the locals just seemed so tired and kind of over it. It's such a large tourist population and the majority don't speak their language. I could feel their frustration.

I tried so hard to not speak English the entire time, but my broken French was all they needed to hear.

 

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16 hours ago, Sir Rols said:

So you're saying they went despite the Olympics? Or that you think in-bound figures would have grown even more without them? It dosn't really matter how you wanna interpret those figures though, they mean that that particular blanket statement can't be used any more.

1) Yes. 2) Yes. 3) The Olympics do not cause an increase in tourism. Some cities (like Barcelona) may experience an increase of tourism after or even simultaneously with their Olympics,  but the cause of the tourism increase is the result of something else.

Barcelona has experienced a tourism boom from the end of the Franco era opening up the country, a general increase in Spanish tourism, and investment in local tourism infrastructure. Andalucia has had the same massive increase in tourists as Catalonia despite the fact it never hosted the Olympics.

If you remove the other factors (such as currency devaluation in the case of Brazil) the Olympics and other mega events usually decrease the number of tourists. The exception to this is winter events, since this is typically the lowest point in the tourist calendar for large cities.

Paris, in the summer, is already full of tourists. The tourism industry won't benefit from the Olympics since any gain in Olympic fans will merely displace the normal tourists.

Edited by Nacre
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26 minutes ago, Nacre said:

Barcelona has experienced a tourism boom from the end of the Franco era opening up the country, a general increase in Spanish tourism, and investment in local tourism infrastructure. Andalucia has had the same massive increase in tourists as Catalonia despite the fact it never hosted the Olympics.

As the last part of the post that you quoted suggested, but you left that part out, it was the 1992 Olympics that put Barcelona on the global map, despite that it could've seen "some" increase in tourism at the end of the Franco years. You've argued this before, but it is the general consensus that the 1992 Summer Olympics was an anamoly in that regard, & since then, no other city has been able to replicate it, & Atlanta 1996 was certainly banking on some similar success, but failed to do so. 

Of course a city like Paris (& London or even L.A.) won't reap the same kind of tourism rewards as Barcelona did, bcuz those cities are already well-establised, global cities. But that doesn't mean that they can't benefit to some degree. As for Andalusia, they didn't host the Olympics, but Seville did host the 1992 World's Fair. And im sure that a lot of their numbers are also trickle-down effect figures from Catalonia &/or from Madrid, the Capitol.

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1 hour ago, FYI said:

but Seville did host the 1992 World's Fair. And im sure that a lot of their numbers are also trickle-down effect figures from Catalonia &/or from Madrid, the Capitol.

1

Yup, hit those 2 spots in 1992 (inasmuch as I had never been to a WOrld's Fair).  Sevilla first (it was a wonderful Expo), and the on to Barcelona for the Opening.  If the winds are with me, I hope to return to Barcelona this Sept and see more of Catalonia and the Basque Country + the IOC Musem in Lausanne, at about the same time they will be picking the 2024 host in Lima.  

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2 hours ago, Nacre said:

1) Yes. 2) Yes. 3) The Olympics do not cause an increase in tourism. Some cities (like Barcelona) may experience an increase of tourism after or even simultaneously with their Olympics,  but the cause of the tourism increase is the result of something else.

Okay, let's look at the Australian Bureau of Statistics for 2000:

Quote

 

Olympics tourism boom mainly confined to Sydney

Tourist accommodation takings and room occupancy soared in Sydney during the Olympics but the rest of Australia showed little change, according to a report released today by the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS).  

The information on accommodation outcomes during the Olympics comes from a special article in the December Quarter issue of Tourism Indicators, Australia (Cat. No. 8634.0).

The report compared data from the six months to December 2000 with that from the same period in 1999 and found that most of the increased activity associated with the Olympics occurred in New South Wales, particularly Sydney, during September 2000. 

In September 2000, occupancy rates in New South Wales hit record levels in licensed hotels (78 percent) and serviced apartments (69 percent). These translated into a 114 percent increase in takings between August and September 2000, with average takings per room night occupied (across all accommodation types) increasing to $209.  

Similarly, occupancy rates increased throughout most of the Sydney metropolitan area with the highest rate occurring in Parramatta (91 percent). Takings in Sydney reflected higher occupancy rates and higher tariffs, with takings increasing 162 percent in September 2000 compared to September 1999. Sydney contributed 82 percent to total takings for New South Wales and 43 percent to takings nationally for September 2000.

ABS - Tourism Indicators Australia, May 2001

 

Now that's a pretty precise, year-on-year, specific Olympic period, comparison. The thing is with Sydney, our Olympics tourism boom didn't last as liking as we hoped - September 11 2001 put paid to that for us and most of world tourism).

2 hours ago, Nacre said:

Barcelona has experienced a tourism boom from the end of the Franco era opening up the country, a general increase in Spanish tourism, and investment in local tourism infrastructure. Andalucia has had the same massive increase in tourists as Catalonia despite the fact it never hosted the Olympics.

Now again, you might want to look at this: Universitat Autonoma de Barcelona - Impact of the Games on Tourism, 2002. Particularly interesting is looking at the accommodation numbers (both availability and occupancy) between 1990 (a decade and a half into the post-Franco opening) and 1992. Also its acknowledgement that much of the extra tourism infrastructure development in the city - the port area and the beachfront opening - was precipitated by the awarding of the games.

Now, I don't know if you remember the early 1990s, and how Barcelona, from being virtually unknown and untalked about in the decades previously, suddenly became THE hot location and destination amid the flurry of Games-related exposure and visibility, pre and post-event. It'd be also hard to deny the visibility and exposure that Brazil and Rio has gained in the past half-decade or so on the back of the WC and the Games.  

 

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7 hours ago, Sir Rols said:

 It'd be also hard to deny the visibility and exposure that Brazil and Rio has gained in the past half-decade or so on the back of the WC and the Games.  
 

- but has Rio been effective in maximising the potential of that visibility and exposure? We may have a rough idea in five years or so.

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9 hours ago, JMarkSnow2012 said:

- but has Rio been effective in maximising the potential of that visibility and exposure? We may have a rough idea in five years or so.

It's far too soon to tell.  It's been only like 5 months since the Big Show ended.  Problem is, Rio, like London, Paris, Rome, New York, Sydney, San Francisco -- are always among the top 5 or 6 Destination cities of the world, regardless of season, regardless of Special Event or not.  So I don't know where Nacre comes off with his claims.  Barcelona was perhaps the best example of a metropolis that an Olympics hosting benefited from.  But the timing was right for Barcelona.  It had long been the Fascist Franco regime's suppressed "ugly" sister.  But it is/was always a counter hotbed to Madrid's suffocating rule.  Its "coming out" party to the world in 1992 could not have been better timed.  

Mexico City - overcrowded metropolis

Tokyo - very expensive, ersatz western city

Beijing - boring and polluted

Moscow - really?   

 

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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31 minutes ago, baron-pierreIV said:

It's far too soon to tell.  It's been only like 5 months since the Big Show ended.  Problem is, Rio, like London, Paris, Rome, New York, Sydney, San Francisco -- are always among the top 5 or 6 Destination cities of the world, regardless of season, regardless of Special Event or not.  So I don't know where Nacre comes off with his claims.  Barcelona was perhaps the best example of a metropolis that an Olympics hosting benefited from.  But the timing was right for Barcelona.  It had long been the Fascist Franco regime's suppressed "ugly" sister.  But it is/was always a hot counter hotbed to Madrid's suffocating rule.  Its "coming out" party to the world in 1992 could not have been better timed.  

 

+1

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20 hours ago, Nacre said:

1) Yes. 2) Yes. 3) The Olympics do not cause an increase in tourism. Some cities (like Barcelona) may experience an increase of tourism after or even simultaneously with their Olympics,  but the cause of the tourism increase is the result of something else.

Barcelona has experienced a tourism boom from the end of the Franco era opening up the country, a general increase in Spanish tourism, and investment in local tourism infrastructure. Andalucia has had the same massive increase in tourists as Catalonia despite the fact it never hosted the Olympics.

If you remove the other factors (such as currency devaluation in the case of Brazil) the Olympics and other mega events usually decrease the number of tourists. The exception to this is winter events, since this is typically the lowest point in the tourist calendar for large cities.

Paris, in the summer, is already full of tourists. The tourism industry won't benefit from the Olympics since any gain in Olympic fans will merely displace the normal tourists.

And what in Barcelona do we suppose may have been responsible for that investment?  Perhaps it could have been hosting an Olympics and a need to spruce up the city for the influx of visitors from around the world?  A lot of that doesn't happen without the Olympics.  As much as the fall of Franco helped open up that region to the urban renewal, Barcelona still had a reputation as an industrial backwater.  It was the Olympics that helped changed the perception of the city to the rest of the world and turned it into a popular tourist destination.  That doesn't happen without the Olympics and all the investments in infrastructure that came along with it.  Yes, Barcelona is not the norm in that regard when it comes to Olympic host cities, but it's not that Barcelona may have experienced an increase in tourism.  Barcelona DID experience an increase in tourist that resulted DIRECTLY from the Olympics.

That said, you're right that often any increase in tourism related to an Olympics is replacing some of the visitors that would be there anyway.  Certainly true of a city like Paris which already receives a ton of tourists every year and probably wouldn't see many more if they hosted 2024.  I know some officials in Turkey have expressed the same thoughts about Istanbul.  But again, it all depends on the city.  Rols makes a good point that Sydney did become more visible to the rest of the world (not that people didn't know about Australia, but they got to see it with their own eyes) and then got hurt by 9/11.

As for Rio, it's tough to gauge where they'll fall in all this.  Concerns about Zika, among other things, will affect the tourism industry in Brazil.  Most important though.. Rio is not some unknown entity to the rest of the world.  People know about Copacabana and Ipanema and Christ the Redeemer.   And if they didn't before 2014, they probably learned a lot about Brazil from the 2014 World Cup.  That's the difference between well-known cities like London and Paris versus a Sydney or a Beijing.

Here's how I think of it.. I visited Barcelona a few years ago.  It's now 1 of my favorite cities in the world and I hope to visit again.  Pretty sure that would not be the case if they didn't host the Olympics.  I also hope to visit Sydney someday.  Again, may or may not be the case if not for the Olympics.  As opposed to Rio, where I've been talking about visiting for awhile now.  My desire to go there has nothing to do with the Olympics.  But again, with all the issues facing Brazil, pretty good chance that tourism there would have dropped there in 2016 without the Olympics.

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11 hours ago, JMarkSnow2012 said:

- but has Rio been effective in maximising the potential of that visibility and exposure? We may have a rough idea in five years or so.

Well, that's the challenge for them now, isn't it. One thing though, they're probably a lot better placed to maximise that potential due to the tourism infrastructure investments - the airport expansion, the redevelopment of the waterfront etc - that were brought on by their hosting of the big sports events this decade, than if they hadn't.

One thing the Sydney politico classes were criticised for was not following up the games boost by targeting other big events - already having taken a hit from 9/11 the NSW government was loathe to do more beyond sit on its laurels. from the games. Even then, though, it still managed great successes in landing quite a few less high profile but still major international conventions and meetings - things like the Catholics International Youth Day, Jehovah Witnesses World Conference, Rotary alongside more commercial ones. 

A story from personal experience. When I left the newspaper game, I went to work for a major German-owned trade fair company. Its signature event here was a major technology conference exhibition every year in Sydney. When Sydney's Convention Centre was closed a couple of years ago for redevelopment (now being re-opened this year) they faced a dilemma on what to do - move the event to Melbourne or move it to the Sydney Showground site at Olympic Park (the drawback with that one was it was not as close to the Sydney CBD as businessmen would have liked). At the end, though, it moved temporarily to the Sydney Olympic site - the Germans put their foot down and said that they wanted their Oceania event to be held nowhere else but Sydney.

Talking about the benefits of exposure to tourism, it's telling that Tourism NSW and its Australian-wide equivalent consider it very good investments to pay multi-millions to the likes of Oprah and the producers of Modern Family to come and film eps of their series down here. Or NZ really went to town in their promotions leveraging the Lord of the Rings. And they can point to direct increases of traffic to their websites and calls to their US tourism offices when those air in the US. And these are one-off events compared to the years-leading-up focus and then two week wall-to-wall constant exposure the games bring to a location.

The irony is, it's the two perceived front runners in the 2024 race that least need a games to highlight their tourism potential. The one that would gain the most is Budapest. It's not the Londons, Paris', LAs, NYCs of the world that get much from Olympic-sparked tourism, it's the Barcelonas, Sydneys and Rios that can use the games to boost or help them fulfil their potential as an attractive destination. And use the games as the spark to get them investing in their tourism infrastructure.

Edited by Sir Rols
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5 hours ago, baron-pierreIV said:

Miss France wins Miss Universe 2017 crown!  Harbinger for September?  (@Nd time for France since 1954, I think it was.)  

https://www.yahoo.com/tv/miss-universe-2017-steve-harvey-025256605.html  

Lol!

You work hard for years in order to show your ability to hold successful international sport events....

  • Track cycling world championships 2015 - 5 gold medals
  • Eurobasket 2015: attendance records - bronze medal
  • Football Euro 2016 : attendance records - silver medal
  • Handball World 2017: attendance records - gold medal
  • Ice Hockey world championships 2017 (May)
  • Wrestling world championships (September)

... and finally, nothing is better than a french miss Universe!

Iris Mittenaere, Miss France 2016, a remporté le titre de Miss Univers le 30 janvier aux Philippines

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