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Hmmmm. This is bound to re-open some wounds from the 2012 campaign. For what it's worth, I don't think arrogance was the problem at all with the bid - the complete opposite, in fact. Rather, I think they were hamstrung by trying not to be seen as the over-confident front-runner, but by doing so went too low key. The French were sure in a bit of a bind in that race - damned if they did campaign hard, damned when they didn't.

Tend to agree, at least that's how their bid came across to me too. But this isn't the first person who's implied that Paris didn't work as hard in Singapore as its rivals. Perhaps publically their bid wasn't arrogant enough, but they were too complacent when it came to the behiond-the-scenes schmoozing and hand-shaking.

Then again, a two vote swing and we'd be talking about how reckless London 2012 was in its approach wouldn't we?

Fine margins when all said and done. Paris 2012 wasn't Annecy 2018; they didn't do a lot wrong.

"We can't turn up once every ten years and tell the whole world what the Olympic Movement is about, that shows arrogance."

Hmmm, this can be applied to a certain 2020 losing bidder as well. Don't go dictating to the IOC how they should be "more efficiently" running their big show. That's bad manners.

Paris' bid however, DIDN'T do that! From what I remember they took the IOC's guidelines about sustainability, temporary venues, technical excellence and tried to follow them as completely as possible, whilst London went big and hoped that would win the day. Paris, more than any other bid followed Rogge's rhetoric that future Olympics were to be sustainable, extremely well planned with no white elephants etc. They were VERY keen on meeting every IOC requirement and showing themselves to be doing so.

Madrid 2020 was horribly dictative and I'm not surprised it lost badly. Paris 2012, if anything was the opposite. Perhaps in the end that just meant they came across as a little dry and technocratic.

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Rendering of the Olympic stadium (stade de France) and the aquatic center. 

Because Baron.

Paris' bid however, DIDN'T do that!

I know. I didn't mean that I agreed with Killy, just merely mentioning that his words in that particular part matched Madrid 2020 moreso than it did Paris 2012. I mean how could it, when the general consensus is that Paris 2012 suffered more of a low-key factor than a in-your-face dictative approach. Like someone mentioned a couple of posts ago, Killy must be letting his own bias views for whatever his reasons cloud the real outcome of the 2012 vote, especially like you also mentioned when it was so close, unlike 2020.

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"We can't turn up once every ten years and tell the whole world what the Olympic Movement is about, that shows arrogance."

Hmmm, this can be applied to a certain 2020 losing bidder as well. Don't go dictating to the IOC how they should be "more efficiently" running their big show. That's bad manners.

Well, I'm sure that's bcuz the IOC doesn't wanna scare off the USOC (not to mention anyone else) by already touting the "final frontier". I'm sure they want as many bidders as possible for 2024, unlike 2020. Certainly can't accomplish if they're gonna start showing their favoritism this early on.

I guess. But isn't that cat already out of the bag? Hasn't it been for YEARS? These NOC's would have to be deaf, blind and stupid to have missed that.

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There's a big difference, though, between some IOC officials "talking" about it versus them literally coming out & saying "the South Africans will be 'hard' to beat".

But when the outgoing president and multiple presidential candidates are talking about desperately wanting to go to Africa, it's still got to be hard to miss. Who knows? Maybe Killy really does see the US as the bigger threat. Maybe he thinks the French will be more motivated to compete against Americans than Africans. I don't know.

I still thought it was an interesting comment because so far I haven't seen much to indicate that the US will be formidable. We don't even know if there's going to be a bid, much less which city. Of course, that would be an advantageous public image to create if the USOC had a killer bid in the works.

Too little information. Too much hypothesis. Have to wait and see.

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The US have got much more sense than to go for 2024. 2024 is Durban if they want it. Yes, it's 3 games outside Europe. So what? Europe isn't the centre of the world anymore, or at least not as it once was, & I think the IOC just want Africa, & don't care what precedents they have to set, what 'rules' they have to break to get there. Then, Europe (Paris) becomes very hard to turn down for 2028, & only then, in 2032, does N America come back. But, by then, 12 years after Tokyo, the IOC might want to come back to Asia, possibly Shanghai or somewhere like Kuala Lumpur. And I haven't mentioned any challenge from Canada that might bring the games to N America, but not the US, potentially knocking the US out until the 60s. Of course, I'm ignoring the WOGs, but if all the US want is to see the Olympic flag on their soil ASAP, those WOGs, perhaps 2026, might be their best chance. It's also worth remembering that before LA 1984, the US waited 52 years for a summer games. If that was repeated, their next turn would be in 2048.

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I think the IOC just want Africa, & don't care what precedents they have to set, what 'rules' they have to break to get there. .

What has changed in the IOC over the past 20 years? They soundy rejected a decent Cape Town bid for 2004. What's different now that would cause them to reject great candidates in Europe in favor of just any African bid?

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The IOC didn't "soundly" reject Cape Town for 2004. They placed right behind Rome for those Games. It was a stronger matter of bringing the Olympics "back home" back then. And it's not just "any" Afrucan bid that we're talking about here. It's not like we're talking about Kenya, Abuja or Libya here. Why can't some around here ever put things in proper perspective instead of merely looking at things at face value.

If South Africa wants to go after the Olympics, they're going to be a formidable opponent to deal wth, including for those "great candidates" in Europe. Anyone who thinks that the IOC will 'soundly' reject a viable South African bid for a second time around is only fooling themselves.

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But, by then, 12 years after Tokyo, the IOC might want to come back to Asia, possibly Shanghai or somewhere like Kuala Lumpur. And I haven't mentioned any challenge from Canada that might bring the games to N America, but not the US, potentially knocking the US out until the 60s.

Can't see the IOC going back to Asia in 12 years again after the duo of 2018/2020 for the first time ever. Lets not confuse like 12 years is not the new norm for Asia or something. Lets not forget that Tokyo got 2020 bcuz there was no real compelling "safe" option as an alternative. If there were, we wouldn't be talking about Tokyo 2020 right now. Plus, if the Chinese do go after a Winter Games next, I can't see Shanghai so soon thereafter. And I definitely don't see Kuala Lumpur either. Also don't see the U.S. waiting until the 2060's either.

*lets not confuse like 12 years is the new norm for Asia or something.

It's also worth remembering that before LA 1984, the US waited 52 years for a summer games. If that was repeated, their next turn would be in 2048.

Well, even that is still well before the "60's".

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Zeke, the 2010 FIFA world cup happened. Not to mention other sporting events & general development in S Africa since 1997. FYI, I mentioned the 52 years purely to make the point that the US shouldn't expect the Summer Games to come their way every 12 to 20 years just because that's what happened in 1984-96. You had 52 year wait between Summer Games before LA84 (admittedly including WWII, so let's say 1948-84, a 36 year wait even then), & that was in a much less globalised world than the one we're in now, with many more potential hosts (you wouldn't have dreamed of going to China, S America or Africa before 1984). So all I'm saying is that the US shouldn't expect to get a SOG every 20-30 years just because it's the US.

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I mentioned the 52 years purely to make the point that the US shouldn't expect the Summer Games to come their way every 12 to 20 years just because that's what happened in 1984-96.

Who's saying that, though? Cuz none of the regular U.S. members here are. I'm certainly not. But saying that the U.S. wouldn't get a Summer Games until the 2060's is quite an exaggeration. Especially when the IOC & the USOC have finally reached a revenue deal that very much works to the IOC's favor.

And even here in the recent article in this thread you have a senior French IOC official saying that "the Americans will be 'hard' to beat" in reference to a Paris bid. So apparently there looks to be something there that the next U.S. bid could be a real contender, contrary to "all you're trying to say".

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Who's saying that, though? Cuz none of the regular U.S. members here are. I'm certainly not. But saying that the U.S. wouldn't get a Summer Games until the 2060's is quite an exaggeration. Especially when the IOC & the USOC have finally reached a revenue deal that very much works to the IOC's favor.

And even here in the recent article in this thread you have a senior French IOC official saying that "the Americans will be 'hard' to beat" in reference to a Paris bid. So apparently there looks to be something there that the next U.S. bid could be a real contender, contrary to "all you're trying to say".

Ugh, seriously.. so many people want to paint the picture that the USOC (and Americans who post here) believe it's our expectation and our right to land the Olympics as frequently as we did in the 80s and 90s. No one here thinks that way. The USOC knows they got lucky with Atlanta in 1990 and that probably wasn't likely to happen again anytime soon. Should that have prevented them from bidding for 2012 and 2016?

We all know there's the 2 factions here, 1 of which essentially says that the next African bid is an automatic winner, and the other that says they have to earn it just like everyone else. The reality is probably somewhere in the middle. But for all the times we've heard Rogge speak and said it was empty words, that's what I say about Killy's comments and just about everything else. Take it with a grain of salt. It's easy for all these folks to say how much they want an Olympics in Africa and what they'll do to make it happen. Let's see what happens when a South Africa bid is actually put in front of them and they have to make that decision. Ditto for Paris and a U.S. candidate.

What has changed in the IOC over the past 20 years? They soundy rejected a decent Cape Town bid for 2004. What's different now that would cause them to reject great candidates in Europe in favor of just any African bid?

That vote was in 1997. It had been less than a decade since South Africa had been welcomed back by the IOC after apartheid. And if Cape Town got soundly rejected, what does it say of the 6 cities that didn't even make the shortlist? The IOC wants to see an Olympics an Africa (yes, I know, take everything with a grain of salt, less someone here call me out for contradicting myself). How serious they are about accomplishing that objective remains to be seen, but I think it's a little naive to say nothing has changed in the past 20 years and that a South African bid isn't any more likely to win now than they were then.

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Yes, I think it should have stopped them going for 12 & 16. It does nothing more than make USOC look greedy. Had they held off, & gone all in for Chicago 2024, as the first American SOG bid since 96, showing real desire by coming in early, but with humility, & they would've had a really good shot.

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Yes, I think it should have stopped them going for 12 & 16. It does nothing more than make USOC look greedy. Had they held off, & gone all in for Chicago 2024, as the first American SOG bid since 96, showing real desire by coming in early, but with humility, & they would've had a really good shot.

There is nothing wrong with bidding. Anyone can bid. A bid does not make anyone look greedy. The choice belongs to the IOC.

A bid simply says, "We value the Olympic movement and we offer ourselves as a potential partner. We are one among several candidates who would like to work with you and we hope you find our proposal to be the most appealing." That's all ANY bid says.

An ill-timed bid MAY make the bidding country seem out of touch with the preferences of the IOC, but that's all.

And, in all fairness, the IOC had awarded the USA four Olympics between 1980 and 2002, so it's not as if there was zero precedent. The losses in 2012 and 2016 made it crystal clear how the IOC's attitude has changed.

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"However, Hickey believes that the 2024 Games will be held in a European City, with Rome and Paris emerging as the front-runners.

"Now that 2020 went outside Europe to Tokyo, for 2024 you are going to have some very strong contenders from Europe," he said. "There were rumours that last time round certain European cities were working against Madrid and Istanbul, hoping it would go to Tokyo so they would get a free run at it for 2024."

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I believe that Rome Italy will have the spirit blessing over the bid it because home to the Holy See most of the IOC members are Christians and that city will have more spirit and heart over a city like Paris France, the only time they bid for the Olympics Games post Rome 1960 was in 2004 going up against the Birthplace for the Olympic Movement if Athens did not make a bid for the Olympics Games then Rome Italy would have won it.

2024 I think will be going to Toronto Canada North America is a big market and they had not had an Olympics Summer Games in this century while Europe had 2 games and the age of Europe Domination hosting the Olympics Games is over and in the future I can see Europe hosting the event every 16 to 20 years, I don;t see Europe coming out of this mess soon in the next 6 years, Who to thought Asia hosting the Olympics Summer Games just 12 years after hosting the last won, Most of the market is in Asia Pacific now and Asia Pacific is becoming the superpower of the world.

The next time Europe will be the hosting the Summer Olympics and Paralympics Games is in 2028, Russia it is too soon and if Germany wins the 2022 Winter Games then they wont get it, France is becoming anti Olympics like the Switzerland, The Future in Spain is unclear with possible Barcelona will spit off Spain by next year so it will be either Amsterdam the Netherlands or Rome Italy to host it in 2028.

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I believe that Rome Italy will have the spirit blessing over the bid it because home to the Holy See most of the IOC members are Christians and that city will have more spirit and heart over a city like Paris France, the only time they bid for the Olympics Games post Rome 1960 was in 2004 going up against the Birthplace for the Olympic Movement if Athens did not make a bid for the Olympics Games then Rome Italy would have won it.

2024 I think will be going to Toronto Canada North America is a big market and they had not had an Olympics Summer Games in this century while Europe had 2 games and the age of Europe Domination hosting the Olympics Games is over and in the future I can see Europe hosting the event every 16 to 20 years, I don;t see Europe coming out of this mess soon in the next 6 years, Who to thought Asia hosting the Olympics Summer Games just 12 years after hosting the last won, Most of the market is in Asia Pacific now and Asia Pacific is becoming the superpower of the world.

The next time Europe will be the hosting the Summer Olympics and Paralympics Games is in 2028, Russia it is too soon and if Germany wins the 2022 Winter Games then they wont get it, France is becoming anti Olympics like the Switzerland, The Future in Spain is unclear with possible Barcelona will spit off Spain by next year so it will be either Amsterdam the Netherlands or Rome Italy to host it in 2028.

Minor details: Rome has announced they won't be bidding.

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Only if they propose hosting beach volleyball in St. Peter's Square.

I'm Sure Pope Francis wont mind having the Beach Volleyball at St. Peter Square but traditional Roman Catholics will be outrage about it, Italy is a beach nation so the beach volleyball will most likely be at the beach right next door to the Rome main airport, When the Olympics Games was last in Rome Italy in 1960 St. Peter Square hosted the Olympics Games Mass lead by Pope John XXIII.

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I believe that Rome Italy will have the spirit blessing over the bid it because home to the Holy See most of the IOC members are Christians and that city will have more spirit and heart over a city like Paris France, the only time they bid for the Olympics Games post Rome 1960 was in 2004 going up against the Birthplace for the Olympic Movement if Athens did not make a bid for the Olympics Games then Rome Italy would have won it.

2024 I think will be going to Toronto Canada North America is a big market and they had not had an Olympics Summer Games in this century while Europe had 2 games and the age of Europe Domination hosting the Olympics Games is over and in the future I can see Europe hosting the event every 16 to 20 years, I don;t see Europe coming out of this mess soon in the next 6 years, Who to thought Asia hosting the Olympics Summer Games just 12 years after hosting the last won, Most of the market is in Asia Pacific now and Asia Pacific is becoming the superpower of the world.

The next time Europe will be the hosting the Summer Olympics and Paralympics Games is in 2028, Russia it is too soon and if Germany wins the 2022 Winter Games then they wont get it, France is becoming anti Olympics like the Switzerland, The Future in Spain is unclear with possible Barcelona will spit off Spain by next year so it will be either Amsterdam the Netherlands or Rome Italy to host it in 2028.

Oh god, it's between funny and lame.

Who to thought Asia hosting the Olympics Summer Games just 12 years after hosting the last won

:rolleyes: Umm, I don't know, maybe half of the forum and most of the newspapers.

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