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Rendering of the Olympic stadium (stade de France) and the aquatic center. 

Because Baron.

Not to mention Epcot sucks since Disney decided to bulldoze the Norway Pavilion and build Frozen land.

Oh really? But FROZEN was very much inspired by Norway...and since Norway does not have a HUGE department store like what's tied with the China and Japan pavilions, then it's probably the same thing.

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Thank you for giving us outsiders a better light on the situation than that negative Nancy, Tulsa.

The article from Frenchy is utopian. If you read french news papers, the majority of them say the same thing : "Paris couldn't bid for 2024 SoG and 2025 Universal Exhibition". Paris doesn't have enough money to lead 2 bids in the same time. It's a fact.

Since a long time Parisian Politics want to bid to 2025 Universal Exhibition, they aren't not favorable for a 2024 bid, it's a fact too. François Hollande is the only one who said loudly that he is for Paris 2024, but the mayor of Paris is against.

You can read articles about a Paris bid to 2025 since some years in French news paper, about SoG it's only since the last autumn.

Paris SoG comeback every year before the bid process beginning, it's only a media wish and every time there is a buzz during some months around this topic...

Paris will bid for SoG or Universal Exhibition, not for the both, it's sure.

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^Okay, but that's not really what you've been saying here, though. You're trying to argue that Paris WON'T bid for either (especially the Olympics) cuz the "situation" in France isn't that great (which that could be argued for virtually any country nowadays, including the U.S.). And that 2028 would be "better opportunity" than 2024 would be (or that Expo 2025 is the better choice between the two). But it looks like most of us here don't agree with your assertion. So in that sense, you are being negative when it comes to a Paris 2024 Olympic bid. I could give a crap about the Expo (looks like most here don't either). So Paris 2024 all the way!

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The IOC often gives us the empty platitudes of "we would encourage a bid from country X or city Y." That's what Agenda 2020 is primarily aimed at.. getting those cities that might have some doubts into the fray and making it easier for them to put for a bid. What happens when those bids are actually up for vote remains to be seen.

Not sure specifically what might help Paris with regard to Agenda 2020, but they are definitely a perfect example of how a city/country that might have concerns about bidding that the IOC could be enticed to enter. And especially for a big well-known city like Paris, it's seems like the biggest hurdle to clear may be simply having the courage to enter a bid. Not that there isn't a lot of work to be done after that, but just getting into the race will be a huge first step for them.

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The article from Frenchy is utopian. If you read french news papers, the majority of them say the same thing : "Paris couldn't bid for 2024 SoG and 2025 Universal Exhibition". Paris doesn't have enough money to lead 2 bids in the same time. It's a fact.

Since a long time Parisian Politics want to bid to 2025 Universal Exhibition, they aren't not favorable for a 2024 bid, it's a fact too. François Hollande is the only one who said loudly that he is for Paris 2024, but the mayor of Paris is against.

You can read articles about a Paris bid to 2025 since some years in French news paper, about SoG it's only since the last autumn.

Paris SoG comeback every year before the bid process beginning, it's only a media wish and every time there is a buzz during some months around this topic...

Paris will bid for SoG or Universal Exhibition, not for the both, it's sure.

Actually, I read the local.fr and they support both bids and think not only can Paris bid, but that Paris can win and host with class, glamour, and successfully. So please, shove it.

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Actually, I read the local.fr and they support both bids and think not only can Paris bid, but that Paris can win and host with class, glamour, and successfully. So please, shove it.

It's not realistic to think than Paris could bid for the both bids. The mayor of Paris is against and the majority of French politics, Paris doesn't have enough money for 2 bids and moreover public opinion won't be favorable.

Actually, French people don't have a bad opinion about Universal Exhibition and I think they are more favorable to bid for Universal Exhibition than SoG.

To conclude and it's only my opinion, Paris will probably bid without success to Universal Exhibition and won't bid to SoG because the public opinion is not favorable and the economic situation is the worst possible.

You can't ignore the fact than France doesn't have a favorable economic situation. Moreover the majority of french have a bad opinion about IOC and SoG and lot of politician are not favorable about a bid for 2024...

It's not because some medias and French President try to make pressure about a bid that it would mean Paris will bid. You have already a strong opposition against SoG and it will be very difficult to pass over all these problems.

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OK Tulsa. Assuming you're correct, what in your opinion would it take for French public opinion to change re: the SOG?

Please don't tell me this feeling is still lingering from what happened a decade ago!

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Those are 2 different things, but yes it would cost a lot of money. The thing is, the UE would only be financed by the State, while the Olympics would be funded by private investment, the State, and a little bit of public money. And they are not incompatible at all, venues for the UE could be used for the Games and vice-versa, and they also would take a big part in the Grand Paris project.

This is absurd to say that everyone is against the Games in Paris. Who is? Mayor Hidalgo is NOT against, she's very open about it, wants to make sure it's feasible and reasonable, and is being more and more in favour of it. The politicians are NOT against the Games, most of them will support it, Sarkozy is in favour, NKM is in favour, both left and right parties pretty much support a bid. And the recent polls showed that a majority of French people would support a bit. Enough with "only the president wants the Games", that is absolutely not true.

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Oh, also, the cost for the UE would be of 2.9 billion, with an expected gain of 3.1 billion (tickets, sponsoring, advertising, exposants' cotisation, etc.). And to be honest, with the kind of bid Paris will offer (not building any venues but reusing the existing ones), I'm not sure they stand quite a chance. A UE without any building going on? What's the point...

Anyway, the host city for the 2025 UE will be decided in 2018, one year after the 2024 SOG election.

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OK Tulsa. Assuming you're correct, what in your opinion would it take for French public opinion to change re: the SOG?

Please don't tell me this feeling is still lingering from what happened a decade ago!

OK Tulsa. Assuming you're correct, what in your opinion would it take for French public opinion to change re: the SOG?

Please don't tell me this feeling is still lingering from what happened a decade ago!

It's not only because Paris lost 2012. It's also the IOC image is very bad in the public opinion since, Athens, London, Beijing and Sotchi. Moreover with the Qatar 2022 scandal, French people have a bad opinion about this kind of bid. I know IOC and Fifa are different but for the public is quite similar.

And for the public opinion, SoG sounds like waste of money... It will be very difficult to change the public opinion about that. I think if the next WoG and SoG are not too expensive and offer a great legacy, maybe this opinion could change.

Those are 2 different things, but yes it would cost a lot of money. The thing is, the UE would only be financed by the State, while the Olympics would be funded by private investment, the State, and a little bit of public money. And they are not incompatible at all, venues for the UE could be used for the Games and vice-versa, and they also would take a big part in the Grand Paris project.

This is absurd to say that everyone is against the Games in Paris. Who is? Mayor Hidalgo is NOT against, she's very open about it, wants to make sure it's feasible and reasonable, and is being more and more in favour of it. The politicians are NOT against the Games, most of them will support it, Sarkozy is in favour, NKM is in favour, both left and right parties pretty much support a bid. And the recent polls showed that a majority of French people would support a bit. Enough with "only the president wants the Games", that is absolutely not true.

But nobody want spend money for SoG. For each bids politics say it will be not expensive, they promise lot of jobs and financial gain, but every time it's false...

France can't waste money in a bid and moreover for SOG. Private money couldn't finance everything, it's impossible, it's another undertaking without evidence.

I didn't say everyone is against, of course some politician and a part of the public is in favor. But the mayor of Paris is against, it's a fact, if she said maybe, it's only because the President lobbied in favor of SoG. When she was elected, she promised she won't bid to SoG...

The recents polls about SoG is totally utopian, it was published in the report about the opportunity to bid. If it was negative, all the report in favor would have been unnecessary... If you read news paper, or the other polls, we are very close to 50/50 about public support. Lot of politics are against, it's not because Sarkozy or Holland are favor that would like mean all the politicians are for.

You are in favor, I understand and you will follow the dynamic in favor, but if you read and follow the other voice, you could check than SoG are not very popular in France.

I'm not against a Paris bid, I'm only against Paris 2024. It's not the good move to bid. Maybe in a near futur, economic situation will be more favorable and maybe IOC could demonstrate than SOG can be not expensive and not a waste of public money. But with Rio 2016 and Pyeonchang 2018, i think it won't be possible to demonstrate this point.

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You are in favor, I understand and you will follow the dynamic in favor,.

And you are not in favor, & I understand, & you will follow the dynamic not in favor. So that's rather rich of you to say to someone else who is in favor when clearly the only one (with a couple of other minorities here & there) very much wanting to follow the "not in favor" dynamic here is you. Wonder why that is.

I'm not against a Paris bid, I'm only against Paris 2024. It's not the good move to bid. Maybe in a near futur, economic situation will be more favorable and maybe IOC could demonstrate than SOG can be not expensive and not a waste of public money. But with Rio 2016 and Pyeonchang 2018, i think it won't be possible to demonstrate this point.

It seems quite clear that you are against, though. Since now you're already citing Rio & PyeongChang (when you were mainly citing Sochi before for your views, which was a Winter Olympics BTW) as reasons why 2028 probably won't be any better to change the French mindset, according to you.

London 2012 was a successful European Summer Olympic Games that should be used as the main gauge for a potential Paris Summer Olympics than going by the anamoly that was Sochi (Winter) 2014, or other Games that haven't even taken place yet.

The conditions in France may be more favorable for a 2028 run instead. But then again, maybe not. And even if they were, that wouldn't necessarily mean that the conditions to BID would be more favorable for France. Another European city could come in & take 2024 instead, for example.

When Annecy 2018 was bidding, the massive expense that was Beijing 2008 had already taken place & Sochi 2014 was well underway in blowing over budget. Yet you were all onboard then. Go figure. I'm starting to think the real reasons you don't really want a Paris "SOG's" is that perhaps deep in the background, you would instead desire to see another Annecy WOG run in the not too distant future. Bet your opinion would then take an amazing 180 shift. But of course you'll say that's not true. But I beg to differ.

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London 2012 was a successful European Summer Olympic Games that should be used as the main gauge for a potential Paris Summer Olympics than going by the anamoly that was Sochi (Winter) 2014, or other Games that haven't even taken place yet.

London isn't a good exemple for France. When London bade for 2012, their budget was around 6 billions, in reality it was between 12 and 15 billions. It's exactly what french don't want to see with a bid from Paris, and each bid is every time more expensive than their promoters expected.

When Annecy 2018 was bidding, the massive expense that was Beijing 2008 had already taken place & Sochi 2014 was well underway in blowing over budget. Yet you were all onboard then. Go figure. I'm starting to think the real reasons you don't really want a Paris "SOG's" is that perhaps deep in the background, you would instead desire to see another Annecy WOG run in the not too distant future. Bet your opinion would then take an amazing 180 shift. But of course you'll say that's not true. But I beg to differ.

Now, if Annecy want to bid, I will be against. I think it's one of the best place around the world to host WoG, of course, but I won't be favorable for a bid. With or Without WoG, people knows this point, France doesn't need to promote Winter sports to be in the top. Russia, China, Korea could bid several time for WoG, it remains the same, Europe or North America are the place for Winter Sports.

I think Annecy has been the last move from France for WoG before a very very long time. Nobody in France will want to bid again for WoG. It's better like this.

Back to Paris 2024.

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Now, if Annecy want to bid, I will be against.

Of course you will.

France doesn't need to promote Winter sports to be in the top. Russia, China, Korea could bid several time for WoG,

But neither did Russia, though.

it remains the same, Europe or North America are the place for Winter Sports.

Of course they are. So no need to promote winter sports elsewhere in the world, is there.

Back to Paris 2024.

But you are "against" Paris 2024, though. :-P

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The politicians are NOT against the Games, most of them will support it, Sarkozy is in favour, NKM is in favour, both left and right parties pretty much support a bid.

NKM isn't in favor, neither are many UMP members. She's neutral and "cautious": http://www.lejdd.fr/Politique/JO-2024-a-Paris-Hidalgo-partante-NKM-prudente-641674

You're forgetting many political sides in your vision by the way, and many people. The Front National is opposedt the games, they represent 30% of the French electorate right now, and are about to squash all of the traditional parties in the upcoming departmental elections. Many in the far-left parties and the greens are against as well.

But you have a majority of people in favor of the games at the moment - see, I give you that. But on the moment all these people I mentioned will start getting interested in the olympic games topic, figures could dramatically invert.

Not many people will want to be involved in the defeat that Paris will face, should a bid come true.

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It's not realistic to think than Paris could bid for the both bids. The mayor of Paris is against and the majority of French politics, Paris doesn't have enough money for 2 bids and moreover public opinion won't be favorable.

Actually, French people don't have a bad opinion about Universal Exhibition and I think they are more favorable to bid for Universal Exhibition than SoG.

To conclude and it's only my opinion, Paris will probably bid without success to Universal Exhibition and won't bid to SoG because the public opinion is not favorable and the economic situation is the worst possible.

You can't ignore the fact than France doesn't have a favorable economic situation. Moreover the majority of french have a bad opinion about IOC and SoG and lot of politician are not favorable about a bid for 2024...

It's not because some medias and French President try to make pressure about a bid that it would mean Paris will bid. You have already a strong opposition against SoG and it will be very difficult to pass over all these problems.

How many times must we say that the Mayor, French government, and citizens of Paris are all in favor of the bid. If Hidalgo was not not in favor then she would not be promoting the bid and trying to garner support from the different arrondissements and city council. Additionally, most money for bids come from private sources of funding. Paris not only can achieve this, but has done so in the past.

I also think you are seriously underestimating the French economy. You sound like conservatives here in the state that proclaim our economy is **** and the bloody world is ending. Yes, the French economic situation is bad but France is still the sixth most wealthy nation in the world and if they bid one of the most wealthy in the bid race. France can afford to host this event through a mixture of public and private funding, which as far as I know is the direction the exploratory committee wants to take it. I would also like to add that the French economy is starting to recover and by 2017 I have no doubt the economy will be in a much stronger state, but the French economy is still strong.

You can't ignore that the majority of France is in support of the bid (according to the most recent opinion polls) and you alse can not ignore that fact that the French economy is going to stay in it's current state for ten years. It is already showing signs of recovering and I would like to see some reliable polls that show the French despise the IOC and SoG, and not polls ten years old.

London isn't a good exemple for France. When London bade for 2012, their budget was around 6 billions, in reality it was between 12 and 15 billions. It's exactly what french don't want to see with a bid from Paris, and each bid is every time more expensive than their promoters expected.

London made a complete return investment, expanded their global brand, sparked east end redevelopment, ignited a sense of British Pride, created a positive urban planning and sporting legacy, and helped in the UK's economic recovery. It's not a coincidence the UK overtook France's economic position two years after the games.

NKM isn't in favor, neither are many UMP members. She's neutral and "cautious": http://www.lejdd.fr/Politique/JO-2024-a-Paris-Hidalgo-partante-NKM-prudente-641674

You're forgetting many political sides in your vision by the way, and many people. The Front National is opposedt the games, they represent 30% of the French electorate right now, and are about to squash all of the traditional parties in the upcoming departmental elections. Many in the far-left parties and the greens are against as well.

But you have a majority of people in favor of the games at the moment - see, I give you that. But on the moment all these people I mentioned will start getting interested in the olympic games topic, figures could dramatically invert.

Not many people will want to be involved in the defeat that Paris will face, should a bid come true.

You do make a good point, but the FN will not be able to much damage until 2017 and who say's they will maintain their current support for that long? Especially if the French economy begins to recover more quickly.

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How many times must we say that the Mayor, French government, and citizens of Paris are all in favor of the bid. If Hidalgo was not not in favor then she would not be promoting the bid and trying to garner support from the different arrondissements and city council. Additionally, most money for bids come from private sources of funding. Paris not only can achieve this, but has done so in the past.

I also think you are seriously underestimating the French economy. You sound like conservatives here in the state that proclaim our economy is **** and the bloody world is ending. Yes, the French economic situation is bad but France is still the sixth most wealthy nation in the world and if they bid one of the most wealthy in the bid race. France can afford to host this event through a mixture of public and private funding, which as far as I know is the direction the exploratory committee wants to take it. I would also like to add that the French economy is starting to recover and by 2017 I have no doubt the economy will be in a much stronger state, but the French economy is still strong.

You can't ignore that the majority of France is in support of the bid (according to the most recent opinion polls) and you alse can not ignore that fact that the French economy is going to stay in it's current state for ten years. It is already showing signs of recovering and I would like to see some reliable polls that show the French despise the IOC and SoG, and not polls ten years old.

The mayor of Paris didn't say she is for. Since she was elected, she said several time she is against... You can find easily some interviews about this point. (the last time it was in November)

In January she said "Maybe" and she will wait some months (April) to say yes or not. But at the moment she's not in favor, she only said, "I will see, I'm waiting". But every body know that she's against.

French economy doesn't start to recover, we never had more unemployment than this year... The French government is unable to reduce the public deficit , and the gap is more important than ever. European Commission threatened France about penalization if we won't reduce the public deficit... Actually the economic situation is the worst possible since the second world war, it's a fact. I don't underestimate French economy, we are in very bad situation.

We don't know if the majority of french people are in favor or not because no official pole exist about this point, and the only way to know what they think french, it's to do a referendum like in Munich for 2022.

But the french government isn't popular, IOC and Olympics games are not popular, I can't believe than French are really in favor of SoG. And when you read Newspaper poles, they seem against.

The most recents poles are not in favor excepted one, the Paris 2024 report poles... If you believe than 75% of french citizen are in favor, you don't know very well France, it's totally utopian and unrealistic.

Nobody is naive about Public/Private funds, French government said the same thing about Euro 2016, and know we know than the majority of the expense come from Public money... One more shame... How would like convince French people than this time it will be different ?

London made a complete return investment, expanded their global brand, sparked east end redevelopment, ignited a sense of British Pride, created a positive urban planning and sporting legacy, and helped in the UK's economic recovery. It's not a coincidence the UK overtook France's economic position two years after the games.

False London spend more than 12 billions and they didn't earn enough money to balance. The majority of economic analyst said London lost money. The UK economy didn't recover think to London, it's a joke.

Excepted Los Angeles 1984 and Atlanta 1996, never an Olympic city earn something with SoG.

You trust every thing IOC says.

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The mayor of Paris didn't say she is for. Since she was elected, she said several time she is against... You can find easily some interviews about this point. (the last time it was in November)

In January she said "Maybe" and she will wait some months (April) to say yes or not. But at the moment she's not in favor, she only said, "I will see, I'm waiting". But every body know that she's against.

French economy doesn't start to recover, we never had more unemployment than this year... The French government is unable to reduce the public deficit , and the gap is more important than ever. European Commission threatened France about penalization if we won't reduce the public deficit... Actually the economic situation is the worst possible since the second world war, it's a fact. I don't underestimate French economy, we are in very bad situation.

We don't know if the majority of french people are in favor or not because no official pole exist about this point, and the only way to know what they think french, it's to do a referendum like in Munich for 2022.

But the french government isn't popular, IOC and Olympics games are not popular, I can't believe than French are really in favor of SoG. And when you read Newspaper poles, they seem against.

The most recents poles are not in favor excepted one, the Paris 2024 report poles... If you believe than 75% of french citizen are in favor, you don't know very well France, it's totally utopian and unrealistic.

Nobody is naive about Public/Private funds, French government said the same thing about Euro 2016, and know we know than the majority of the expense come from Public money... One more shame... How would like convince French people than this time it will be different ?

False London spend more than 12 billions and they didn't earn enough money to balance. The majority of economic analyst said London lost money. The UK economy didn't recover think to London, it's a joke.

Excepted Los Angeles 1984 and Atlanta 1996, never an Olympic city earn something with SoG.

You trust every thing IOC says.

You are obviously very closed off to the idea of Paris bidding or hosting and as a result your bias clouds your ability to see reality. I will admit that Paris will have some domestic hills to overcome, but the bid is not in the sewer like you say.

In the past few months Hidalgo (mayor of Paris) has come out in support of the bid and during her campaign and following her election she said she would support a bid if it was done right and was sustainable. It's not secret that Paris can host a sustainable games, especially when almost all the venues are existing. I think that is another thing you're forgetting, Paris has most of the venues where London had to build most of theirs AND make sure it was all built with sustainability in mind. FFS they built an Olympic park larger than Hyde Park. Paris on the other hand has very few venues/locations to construct and that will greatly reduce costs.

Though I suppose I'm wasting my time fighting with you. You're not going to convince me Paris shouldn't or can't bid and I will not convince you the should or can so lets agree to disagree for now.

Also, I do not believe everything the IOC says and personally feel that in recent years they sugar coat everything. Instead I trust news sources like : The Week, The Local.FR, BBC, CNN, The Washington Post, The Wall Street Journal, France 24, The New York Times, The Times, etc.

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I'm not against Paris. I just said, actually France and Paris have some weakness. Even if our economy is bad, of course Paris could host SoG in 2024. And I agree, it could one of the less expensive games since a long time.

But i'm not sure about the team spirit in the Paris 2024 team, you have already some disagreement between politics, french government isn't very popular and french citizen could be against because the president support Paris 2024, medias are not very hot like in the past and the public fervor isn't very strong and lower than for 2012.

But Paris can overcome these problems, but it will be really difficult. It's the reasons why I think Paris is not ready for 2024.

Last point, USA seem very strong for this attempt and France isn't good for lobbying like USA.

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