Paris 2024

[Frenchy]

Agreed, and I think that if Paris indeed bids, it could win because of that. "Cheap" Olympics could seduce the IOC in order to regain attractivness after the insane costs of the last Olympics (Winter or Summer). That's why I don't think Boston stands a chance, since it has to build pretty much everything and would cost a lot more than what they've planned.

Then again we all know the IOC is so very good a setting up a whole raft of wonderful new rules and regulations which are supposed to bring down the cost of hosting a game (as they did in Prague back in 2003, remember them?) only to sit on them at the first opportunity....

[George_D]

Hidalgo to submit Paris 2024 candidature decision to council leaders in March

Paris Mayor Anne Hidalgo was one of the political leaders to be presented with a report on the city's candidacy for the 2024 Olympic and Paralympic Games ©Getty ImagesProvisional confirmation of a Paris bid for the 2024 Olympic and Paralympic Games could come as soon as March, after sports officials today delivered a key feasibility study to political leaders, including Anne Hidalgo, the city's Mayor.

Receiving the report from Bernard Lapasset, President of the French International Sport Committee (CFSI), Hidalgo thanked him, Denis Masseglia, President of the French National Olympic and Sport Federation (CNOSF) and Tony Estanguet, a French International Olympic Committee (IOC) member, for their "professionalism", and said she would "submit the candidature decision to the councils of Paris's 20 arrondissements at the end of March and to the Council of Paris in April".

Observing that the economic model for the Games still needed further precision, Hidalgo announced that she would also call a meeting of "bosses of large companies", also in March.

But the Mayor, who until now has appeared sceptical about the potential benefits of a bid, also commented favourably on IOC President Thomas Bach's Agenda 2020 initiative, saying she was "delighted" that the IOC had in December passed 40 proposals "in favour of sustainable development".

And she said she had "heard the force of the message sent by the people of Paris after [last month's] attacks" and was "touched to see how Paris touches the world".

"I heard the need for engagement in the hope of a more fraternal world," Hidalgo said.

"I hope that young people speak out and get involved."

While the study's contents have yet to be published, it seems unthinkable that it would not have concluded that a bid is technically feasible.

The highbrow newspaper Le Monde, which said it had secured access to the study, reported that the whole text was indeed favourable towards a bid.

Interestingly, in these highly cost-conscious times in Western Europe, the newspaper said that the document puts the budget at an extremely modest €6 billion (£4.5 billion/$7 billion), including organisation and infrastructure costs.

It said the study played up the contributions that would be made by the IOC, as well as private sponsors and ticket sales, using the slogan, "The Games finance the Games".

Boston and Rome are already on the starting-line for the race, and may be joined next month by Hamburg or Berlin and possibly others.

The IOC are due to choose the host city at its 2017 Session in the Peruvian capital of Lima.

[DamC]

Then again we all know the IOC is so very good a setting up a whole raft of wonderful new rules and regulations which are supposed to bring down the cost of hosting a game (as they did in Prague back in 2003, remember them?) only to sit on them at the first opportunity....

Yep, that's what's kinda worrying. Also, Berlin's plan also relies on a lot of existing venues and would have the same appeal as Paris's. So, low costs are an advantage for Paris until they're not.

[Tulsa]

Tulsa, here's an article about why the Games always cost more than what was planned. It's interesting, and in French. Have a look.

http://www.eurosport.fr/jeux-olympiques/jeux-olympiques-2024/2015/paris-2024-le-vrai-cout-des-jeux_sto4597550/story.shtml

I agree that this is being very optimistic, but I also think it wouldn't cost more than 8 billion, since 1) the infrastructures are already there or will be by 2024, and 2) Transportation wise, the Grand Paris project will happen whether or not Paris get the Games, so its cost won't be considered part of the Games cost but it will considerably strenghten Paris' bid. The only major cost will be the Olympic Village, the media centers and an Olympic swimming pool.

Everybody seems forget the cost about security, it will increase with last attack in Paris. Moreover the terrorism threat will increase in France in the next years, to fight against it will be very expensive moreover for an event like SoG.

8 billions it's too expensive and not reasonable for the French economy. It's a lack of respect about citizen to bid for SoG.

Really who wants this games in France ? Some politics unable to cut the public spending ? How would you like reduce spending when in the same time you will spend 8 billons or more for two weeks of games ?

The economic situation in France is against this kind of spending, it's not the good time in France, maybe in some years.

Last thing, Olympics games are less and less famous for the current young generation, SoG belong to the 20 century. The majority of sports in SoG are very boring and not interesting... Young generation wants something different, more spectacular like Xgames. IOC knows that and they try to add new sports but it's too slow... Who wants watch weightlifting ? SoG are chained to the past... The futur will without IOC.

Boston will win, USA payed a lot for the the TV rights, like Samsung for PC 2018, like Gasprom for Sotchi... Paris doesn't have this kind of help in their bid. IOC looks money in first, Paris and IOC are not in the wave. When French politics will understand that maybe we could built something.

Paris 2024 is already done, politics are not very enthusiast, public support is very low and french economy is down. And some people wants SoG in France, are you mad ?

[DamC]

But did you read the CNOSF's document? All the money spent to organize the games will be private and come from the IOC and revenue from ticketing + sponsoring. As it always does. (you also a small part of public spending, for the Paralympics)

Then you have the money spent building the infrastructure, half of it being private money, the other half being public spendings. Most of this going to the Olympic Village, which after the games wille be turned into housing, which Paris desperately needs. That's about 1,5 billion euros in the CNOSF's projection. Obviously it's gonna go up, but not up to 8 billions, come on. (London's public spendings for security were of about 1,5 billion euros by the way)

London used around 8,4 billion euros out of the total cost (which was around 14 billion euros) to build the Olympic Park and other infrastructure. Paris has already built most of this stuff. The only major venue Paris needs to build is the Aquatics Centre

[mr.bernham]

Everybody seems forget the cost about security, it will increase with last attack in Paris. Moreover the terrorism threat will increase in France in the next years, to fight against it will be very expensive moreover for an event like SoG.

8 billions it's too expensive and not reasonable for the French economy. It's a lack of respect about citizen to bid for SoG.

Really who wants this games in France ? Some politics unable to cut the public spending ? How would you like reduce spending when in the same time you will spend 8 billons or more for two weeks of games ?

The economic situation in France is against this kind of spending, it's not the good time in France, maybe in some years.

Last thing, Olympics games are less and less famous for the current young generation, SoG belong to the 20 century. The majority of sports in SoG are very boring and not interesting... Young generation wants something different, more spectacular like Xgames. IOC knows that and they try to add new sports but it's too slow... Who wants watch weightlifting ? SoG are chained to the past... The futur will without IOC.

Boston will win, USA payed a lot for the the TV rights, like Samsung for PC 2018, like Gasprom for Sotchi... Paris doesn't have this kind of help in their bid. IOC looks money in first, Paris and IOC are not in the wave. When French politics will understand that maybe we could built something.

Paris 2024 is already done, politics are not very enthusiast, public support is very low and french economy is down. And some people wants SoG in France, are you mad ?

Do you know how many young people are members here? It's a good number. And if the SoG are done then I would say the WoG are way past their prime, Annecy was the essence of wasted money on a pointless bid. The games are still very important and popular among the youth of the world. And just because NBC payed a lot of rights for the games, the IOC has two more additions till they cash in on it and in my opinion it is more important for them to go back to Europe than the US.

You are wrong in your comment that public support is low and no one in France wants the games. The mayor backs it, the French government backs it, and the most recent polls show that the majority of the nation and city want the games. It would appear that you are in the minority. And the old economic argument is neither here nor there, you gotta spend money to make money.

So from the bottom of my heart, stop being so butt-hurt about Annecy loosing 2018 and bring your negativity somewhere else.

[JO2024]

stop being so butt-hurt about Annecy loosing 2018

Oh that's what this is all about? Makes sense now...

Anyway, I couldn't agree more Mr.Bernham. If Paris bids (and it's looking more and more like it will), it will definitely be a strong competitor as Bach said not so long ago.

[Frenchy]

Oh that's what this is all about? Makes sense now...

Anyway, I couldn't agree more Mr.Bernham. If Paris bids (and it's looking more and more like it will), it will definitely be a strong competitor as Bach said not so long ago.

Well he would say that, wouldn't he!

He there's one thing he's terrified of and which probably gives him nightmares, it's Paris 2024 doing a 'Rome 2020'.......

[hektor]

Tulsa

You have to accept the fact that Albertville Mk II (aka Annecy 2018) was hopeless.

That being said I am on the fence on this Paris 2024 business. Basically because I think that the weight of France in the Olympic institutions has not evolved since 2005. Still nobody in the Executive commission for instance. Probably worth trying if I was sure that it would be a two bid run (2024 and 2028). But I fear that if Boston gets elected, out of spite, Paris won't bid for 2028.

[Tulsa]

But did you read the CNOSF's document? All the money spent to organize the games will be private and come from the IOC and revenue from ticketing + sponsoring. As it always does. (you also a small part of public spending, for the Paralympics)

Then you have the money spent building the infrastructure, half of it being private money, the other half being public spendings. Most of this going to the Olympic Village, which after the games wille be turned into housing, which Paris desperately needs. That's about 1,5 billion euros in the CNOSF's projection. Obviously it's gonna go up, but not up to 8 billions, come on. (London's public spendings for security were of about 1,5 billion euros by the way)

London used around 8,4 billion euros out of the total cost (which was around 14 billion euros) to build the Olympic Park and other infrastructure. Paris has already built most of this stuff. The only major venue Paris needs to build is the Aquatics Centre

I read of course and it is in favor without real arguments and without real survey or real economic analysis.

You can't cover the cost with tickets sell, it's a lie. Half of the tickets are reserved for the Olympic Family (IOC members and Sponsors), you can sell only the other half... It's not enough to cover cost.

Sponsors payed IOC, not the city. This report is imperfect and it is only write to push Paris bid.

All the economic survey done showed that it impossible to earn money with SoG or WoG, excepted in Los Angles in 1984.

And if the SoG are done then I would say the WoG are way past their prime, Annecy was the essence of wasted money on a pointless bid.

You are wrong in your comment that public support is low and no one in France wants the games. The mayor backs it, the French government backs it, and the most recent polls show that the majority of the nation and city want the games. It would appear that you are in the minority. And the old economic argument is neither here nor there, you gotta spend money to make money.

So from the bottom of my heart, stop being so butt-hurt about Annecy loosing 2018 and bring your negativity somewhere else.

Annecy was a bad bid, but less expensive than PC, PC is a waste of public money, but it's a Korean problem.

I didn't say nobody wants SoG in France, I said less people than in the past are for and enthusiast about it. Moreover young generation are less and less interesting about olympic sports.

And stop about Annecy, I don't care. I'm from Annecy, nothing else. Munich was the best bid in 2018.

And you can't earn money when you spend this money for SOG.

Tulsa

You have to accept the fact that Albertville Mk II (aka Annecy 2018) was hopeless.

That being said I am on the fence on this Paris 2024 business. Basically because I think that the weight of France in the Olympic institutions has not evolved since 2005. Still nobody in the Executive commission for instance. Probably worth trying if I was sure that it would be a two bid run (2024 and 2028). But I fear that if Boston gets elected, out of spite, Paris won't bid for 2028.

Stop with Annecy, like I said I don't care. I was for Annecy, Munich was the best bid, the worst won.

I'm not against Paris bid, I'm against Paris 2024, we should wait 2028. We do the same mistake than in the past.

The mayor of Paris was against, some politics make pressure on the mayor and now she's not against. It's already a problem because in your team not everybody is for. Since the beginning it's only a politic bid... The same mistake than in 2012.

Moreover the French economy is not good, we try to reduce public spending and in the same time some politics want to bid. It's not logical.

And last thing Paris should do a Referendum and stop to produce fake report about real impact.

We can bid, but with a real budget, not with 6 billions, it's not enough. USA has a real advantage for 2024, and today we don't have 12 billions to spend for a bid. I'm sure in some years the economic situation will be better, and we will have a real opportunity to win.

Last thing, we are a democratic country and we should vote about SoG in Paris like for Munich did for 2022.

[TheOtherRob]

I read of course and it is in favor without real arguments and without real survey or real economic analysis.

You can't cover the cost with tickets sell, it's a lie. Half of the tickets are reserved for the Olympic Family (IOC members and Sponsors), you can sell only the other half... It's not enough to cover cost.

You can CERTAINLY organise the event at a profit with the costs covered by tickets and merchandise and sponsorships. London did just that.

What you almost certainly can't do is build venues and infrastructure without tapping into the public purse. It is my belief that Paris would build a lot less than London had to, so an infrastructure budget of 2 or 3 billion could be quite realistic. On top of that, of course, is the black hole of security which adds another billion.

Is this report people are talking about available anywhere and in English?

Edited February 13, 2015 by Rob.

[JO2024]

Is this report people are talking about available anywhere and in English?

It is available here, but I'm afraid it's only in French. You could, though, check out the possible already existing venues!

http://fr.scribd.com/doc/255532268/Synthese-de-l-etude-d-opportunite-sur-les-Jeux-Olympiques-a-Paris

Keep in mind it's a summary (45 pages I think). The real thing handed to Maior Hidalgo is 300 pages long, and it includes more details that aren't revealed in the summary, in order to keep it secret to comepetitors! ;-)

[Pixie_Victoria]

Incorrigible, naive, stupid...So they're doing it again, eh ?...Words aren't sufficient to qualfy this irresponsible move and that masquerade in an even tougher 2024 competition. It seems like politicians, who know nothing about sport, do not learn from the past and make decisions in complete ignorance. 2024 will never go to Paris. Maybe it's time for a reminder...But no, these people's level of idiocy is such that they won't take heed of warnings anyway. Go ahead !

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3d5_paris-2012-pari-perdu_news

[zekekelso]

Incorrigible, naive, stupid...So they're doing it again, eh ?...Words aren't sufficient to qualfy this irresponsible move and that masquerade in an even tougher 2024 competition. It seems like politicians, who know nothing about sport, do not learn from the past and make decisions in complete ignorance. 2024 will never go to Paris. Maybe it's time for a reminder...But no, these people's level of idiocy is such that they won't take heed of warnings anyway. Go ahead !

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3d5_paris-2012-pari-perdu_news

So you are saying you don't think Paris will win???

[TheOtherRob]

Incorrigible, naive, stupid...So they're doing it again, eh ?...Words aren't sufficient to qualfy this irresponsible move and that masquerade in an even tougher 2024 competition. It seems like politicians, who know nothing about sport, do not learn from the past and make decisions in complete ignorance. 2024 will never go to Paris. Maybe it's time for a reminder...But no, these people's level of idiocy is such that they won't take heed of warnings anyway. Go ahead !

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3d5_paris-2012-pari-perdu_news

Paris lost by the tiniest margin imaginable back in 2005. I don't see why some people see this as impossible. Sure, I get why some French people might not want the Games in their country, but the notion they can't get them is just not true. Rio wasn't even shortlisted for 2012, remember? Tokyo lost 2016 by a far bigger margin than Paris lost 2012. Beijing had to bid more than once. Paris is more than capable of winning an Olympic bid if things come together. It's in a much, much stronger position than almost any other city given its existing assets and undeniable status as a world city.

Edited February 13, 2015 by Rob.

[Mainad]

I can't help feeling that all this negativity from French posters about Paris' chances for 2024 are, at least in part, still fuelled by lingering bitterness about what happened to the city's previous bids, especially the last one, hence this 'we don't want it, we don't care about it, nobody really cares about it anymore anyway' masochostic mantra that seems to me to be like some sort of self-inflicted revenge for the failure of past bids!

Chill out Frenchies. Where there's a will, there's always a way!

A positive and enthusiastic bid for 2024 will put Paris automatically as the favourite. Now we know being the favourite doesn't always guarantee selection but I highly doubt the special circumstances of 2012 will occur again. For one thing, there is no Chirac around any longer to upset potentially vital swing votes on the eve of the election by making disparaging remarks about their cuisine! Who knows what might have happened if he had only managed to keep his trap shut?

Edited February 13, 2015 by Mainad

[FYI]

Good grief, what is it with this defeatist attitude by some of the French on here. It's quite ironic in a way, though, cuz usually we have to deal with the staunch, sometimes very presumptuous (to say the least) supporters of other countries & their respective bids (ie Madrid, Annecy, etc).

With that said, I don't see how 2024 is going to have "stiff competition" when one of those very cities that would make it as such would be Paris itself. I also don't see how "waiting for 2028" is a smarter move when 2024 could still go to another European city since it'll be 12 years by then since the last Summer Games on the continent.

I also don't believe that Boston is in such a strong position (like some here naively like to think) that it's a forgone conclusion that the Games would automatically go to them. The only wild card here would be South Africa. But even with them in the race, I would liken Paris' 2024 chances very much. Obviously & luckily enough the ones trying to make this work could see that the odds would be very much in their favor.

[StefanMUC]

I know people will tell me it's all unlikely, but before the 2017 decision, there's French elections and the shadow of Le Pen is hanging in there...

It's a worst case scenario, yes, but awarding 2024 to a FN led France would be an absolute no-go.

I just hope France will pull itself together, and really not for the sake of Paris 2024, but for the good of its people.

[Quaker2001]

Incorrigible, naive, stupid...So they're doing it again, eh ?...Words aren't sufficient to qualfy this irresponsible move and that masquerade in an even tougher 2024 competition. It seems like politicians, who know nothing about sport, do not learn from the past and make decisions in complete ignorance. 2024 will never go to Paris. Maybe it's time for a reminder...But no, these people's level of idiocy is such that they won't take heed of warnings anyway. Go ahead !

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3d5_paris-2012-pari-perdu_news

So who do you think 2024 will go to that Paris is against tougher competition? That's where I have to question your mindset. 2024 is going to be tougher than 1992 when the election was all but rigged for Barcelona? Tougher than 2008 when they were up against Beijing off their close 2000 loss? Tougher than 2012 when they went up against their big European rival and, as Rob noted, lost by a very small margin?

I get the frustration and anger that come from having lost so many times and now going on a century that Paris hasn't hosted. I get the animosity towards the IOC where the Olympics are a costly endeavor and it's easy to say it's a bad decision to pursue it. But don't go so far as to say that Paris shouldn't go after 2024 becayse they're not going to get it. You don't think Paris can beat Boston? Rome? Berlin/Hamburg? Is it because of who is involved with the Paris bid and you think they're holding Paris back? Or are you legitimately concerned that any or all of those cities stand a better chance at landing the Olympics.

It's 1 thing to invoke past history. It's another to use it incorrectly. IMO, that's what you're doing here. Don't give us the line that Paris couldn't get it done in their first 3 attempts, so why should the 4th try be any different.

[JO2024]

Well, should I say that I'm French and I very much support Paris 2024!? Anyway, I really don't see how Boston could beat Paris unless there's corruption again. Regarding the SoG, the US had the Games twice within 12 years (1984 and 1996), Germany had them 40 years ago, Italy 54 years ago, and France...100 years ago (by 2024)!

And I do believe that the IOC will remember 2012. If Paris bids for 2024 and loses, we can be sure that it won't bid for another 50 years. We've been waiting for a century for f**** sake!!!

The race for 2024 might get really exiting....

[Nacre]

This should be an easy race for Paris to win.

South Africa is still stinging from the debacle of the white elephant venues from their World Cup, and it's been hard to get government support for more spending on sports. Boston's bid relies on small temporary venues, there are serious questions about how it will handle transportation, and it will be extremely difficult for the USOC to win support for another American bid. Berlin doesn't want the Olympics and Hamburg (just like Boston) would need to build a lot of venues in order to host. There's no way the IOC will pick another Asian city over Europe after three consecutive hosts in Asia. After the problems in Rio the IOC will want a safe pair of hands rather than a new frontier.

There are no guarantees, but I can't see a good bid from Paris losing.

[Tulsa]

There is some reason why Paris shouldn't bid :

Firstly the economic trouble in France are against a bid, we try to reduce spending, SoG will be very expensive, more than politics expect.

Public support is low, people are angry against french government, and for french a bid from Paris will be a political bid, the opposition will be strong.

Paris Mayor is not in favor, if she says "yes" it will be after political pressure. Now she has changed only because F.Holland said he wanted SoG.
It's already a political bid and it was a mistake for Paris 2012. Since the beginning we never heard sportsmen about this bid, only political.

Paris should do a public vote like Munich.

USA payed a lot for the TV rights, USA lost with New York and Chicago, USA is the main partner for IOC and IOC can't piss off USA another time.

Everything is against a bid from Paris. Lot of people here speak without to know how is the economic and political situation in France... Paris should wait.

[FYI]

USA payed a lot for the TV rights, USA lost with New York and Chicago, USA is the main partner for IOC and IOC can't piss off USA another time.

It's funny reading foreigners write about "IOC 'can't piss off' USA another time". Yet when Americans argue that way, those individuals get accused by outsiders of being "arrogant Americans". Oh the irony. But I digress.

However, what you fail to realize though, (& I've mentioned this before) is that those TV rights are already paid for 'til the Games of 2032. So it's not like the USOC could use that as some sort of leverage anyway. The IOC could still give anyone of those Games from now 'til then to the U.S. & still be on "good terms" with them, but doesn't necessarily have to be the 2024 ones. Especially when many still question Boston's selection by the USOC.

Everything is against a bid from Paris. Lot of people here speak without to know how is the economic and political situation in France... Paris should wait.

And how is that any different from Rome's (Italy's) weak economy? Or the dubious full support for a Berlin or Hamburg bid? Or how some still argue that South Africa would still be iffy? Or how Boston's bid is not as "solid" as you pretend to make to it "without know". They still would have to build several venues, not to mention the Olympic stadium. So outta all those, I'd say that Paris would be the one to beat in that potential line-up.

[Nacre]

There is some reason why Paris shouldn't bid :

Firstly the economic trouble in France are against a bid, we try to reduce spending, SoG will be very expensive, more than politics expect.

Public support is low, people are angry against french government, and for french a bid from Paris will be a political bid, the opposition will be strong.

That is fair. If the people of France do not want to host then they should not have to. But that's different than saying Paris will lose again if it tries.

I really don't think the IOC will be upset about saying "no" to the USA again. Boston will be angry, but I don't think Americans in general will be upset at all. The key difference between the USA and most other countries is that the USA has 6-7 cities capable of hosting. If New York, Chicago and Boston are all angry at the IOC and don't want to host the Olympics the USOC can still bid with Los Angeles, Philadelphia or San Francisco.

Edited February 13, 2015 by Nacre

[aquaman617]

IMO, if Paris gets in he race with a decent bid, it will be the one to beat. It would easily wipe away Boston, Hamburg, Rome and Durban. Easily. The only competition I could see for Paris would be if Germany selects Berlin over Hamburg and the IOC allowed itself to be swept up in some kind of reunification nostalgia. (Perhaps nostalgia's not the right word.)

I just don't understand the pessimism some are expressing here about a Paris bid.