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Too much seems to be being made of 'picking the wrong battles'. That argument is being derived through the prism of hindsight. If that's the case, we could say that for a lot of other cities too, not just Paris. As with any competition, there will be several losers & only one winner. And no matter how hard we try to understand the outcome, one thing is for sure, like the old saying goes around here; you gotta be in it to win it. I believe it's more of a case of *suitable* battles than 'wrong' ones. With that said..

Out of the three races that Paris has entered in the span of 20 years, the only one I could say that they got "screwed over" was for 1992 with Samaranch's politicking. But even there, with what I've been able to read from old articles, the attitude of some of the French back then was much like Athens' was for the centennial; "We're Courtebiens city & deserve to have the Olympics here". That most likely didn't bode well with some.

And for 2008, again I can't see that even the French thought that they could've walked right in & gotten those Games with the 800 pound gorilla in the room (Beijing) & the preceding Summer Games already slated for Europe. In this case, I could see the "warm-up" bid theory into play so the French could position themselves very nicely for 2012. Especially when there was no hesitation at the time (like there is now) to come right back & bid for 2012.

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Rendering of the Olympic stadium (stade de France) and the aquatic center. 

Because Baron.

I have wondered too if Paris took the 2008 bid that seriously and only considered it as a warm-up for 2012 which certainly wasn't a wrong battle. If that is the case it certainly makes sense. Even with hindsight I like to maintain the idea of picking the battles a bit poorly, but it's not so much about when to bid but when not to bid. At least 2020 is still fresh in our minds and when South Africa wasn't entering, the competition didn't look too strong.

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but it's not so much about when to bid but when not to bid.

Of course. But if we want to apply that logic, then I'd say that it applies much moreso to Madrid than it does to Paris. I mean what were the Spainards thinking after London won 2012?! Other than them, no other strong European city (other than Prague) came to the table for 2016. So the French were smart there to call it quits. Even Istanbul was smart enough to finally stay away from that one. Madrid did it in reverse than how Paris did it.

Perhaps Paris was thinking more along the lines that if somehow Beijing were to shoot itself in the foot for 2008, that the IOC would then pick Paris, despite Athens 2004. Much like the USOC just taking the gamble with Atlanta with 1996, despite Los Angeles 1984. The USOC wasn't expecting to win that one. It just worked out that way. And perhaps that's was France's line of thinking with 2008. If not they probably thought, there was always the more winnable 2012 that they'd have the edge for. The Spainards OTOH, were the 'foolish' ones.

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I think it is clear that Madrid bid a couple times too much when they should have not and that's the difference with Paris that could have tried a couple times more but chose not to enter the race. Of course bidding too many times à la Istanbul can also be counterproductive but I think we can agree that Paris is not Istanbul nor France is Turkey and Paris would always have been a very credible option. They don't also have the burden of another city in the same country having hosted recently. Actually it is very difficult to think of any major opposing arguments against Paris in general apart from their possible internal issues such as lack of support. Minor issues and flaws exist with every bidding city.

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I think it is clear that Madrid bid a couple times too much when they should have not and that's the difference with Paris that could have tried a couple times more but chose not to enter the race.

Like tried again when, though? For 2016? No, that wouldn't have been very smart. For 2020? Maybe, but then again, so could have the U.S. And also if Italy hadn't withdrawn, that would've made the dynamics of 2020 different as well & perhaps giving Tokyo a good run for its money. Not to mention, that the French NOC was still dealing with the stinging defeat of Annecy 2018 to bother with another bid so soon.

Of course bidding too many times à la Istanbul can also be counterproductive but I think we can agree that Paris is not Istanbul nor France is Turkey and Paris would always have been a very credible option. They don't also have the burden of another city in the same country having hosted recently.

I didn't mention Istanbul to compare it with Paris or France, but moreso to compare it with the stubbornness of the Spanish OC & their foolhardiness to just keep bidding & bidding without giving the process too much thought before entering.

And no, Paris doesn't have the same burden of having another city in the same country that has hosted recently, but for 2008, they had the issue of another city being slated to host the preceding Games in the same continent, which is initially what you were citing as part of your 'picking the wrong battles'. At least in France's case there, the 2004 Games were going to take place in an entirely different country.

Actually it is very difficult to think of any major opposing arguments against Paris in general apart from their possible internal issues such as lack of support. Minor issues and flaws exist with every bidding city.

Precisely. Which is why we really can't say here & now that Paris "could've" entered other races where their chances could've been better. As usual, hindsight is always 20/20. But it's their very own issues that kept them back.

The same could be said with the USOC & CONI for 2020. If you don't have your house in order yet before you present a bid, then it doesn't matter how "good" a particular bid race might be looking for your chances if your attempt is gonna be half-a$sed anyway. Paris obviously wasn't ready to submit a bid for 2020 for whatever their reasons. A lot of us here are always talking about "putting your best foot forward", as far as nominating a city goes. I think the same can also be said when it comes to the quality & the stamina of the respective national & bid committees.

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Like tried again when, though? For 2016? No, that wouldn't have been very smart. For 2020? Maybe, but then again, so could have the U.S. And also if Italy hadn't withdrawn, that would've made the dynamics of 2020 different as well & perhaps giving Tokyo a good run for its money. Not to mention, that the French NOC was still dealing with the stinging defeat of Annecy 2018 to bother with another bid so soon.

I didn't mention Istanbul to compare it with Paris or France, but moreso to compare it with the stubbornness of the Spanish OC & their foolhardiness to just keep bidding & bidding without giving the process too much thought before entering.

The potentially good years for Paris to bid that have been mentioned here include 1988, 2000, 2004 and 2020. Even if some of them may be debatable, I do think that Paris could have been very strong on some of those occasions. 2016 of course they were wise not to enter. I wasn't referring to you or anyone else particularly when I mentioned Istanbul, that's just the prime example of someone bidding for the sake of bidding without thinking about it too much. Or who knows what their motives are/were. Paris could have bid more often without turning into another Istanbul unless they picked their battles really badly, like going for both 1996, 2008 as well as 2016. I do however think that even with wisely elected years a credible city like Paris could bid too much and gain battle fatigue, so there must be a limit to everything.

For the sake of this hindsight argument I believe that if they want the Games, the French should enter the 2024 race as even with or without South Africa I see it as an excellent opportunity for Paris. If they do that and lose more than very narrowly like in 2012, I'm ready to admit I was wrong. But they might not care about the hosting anymore, it's their business and so be it.

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Yeah, I am totally kidding! I mean the rest of us here & the IOC are totally "stupid"! What the heck do we know when we have you onboard with your "knowledge"!

If the IOC is all about money & they have "no" Olympic spirit even before the election of PyeongChang, then why were you so vehemently on all our a$ses here, back in 2011 (if you knew the "truth" then about the IOC), when we were telling you that Annecy's chances were virtually nil. Why would then want a corrupt & spiritless organization in your hometown if that's truly the way you feel even BEFORE PyeongChang got elected?!

See, it doesn't make absolute sense other than utter hypocrisy & sour grapes on your part. If the IOC had chosen Annecy, you'd be harping a different tune now, despite the IOC's "total stupid choices" of Beijing & Sochi.

Right, until if/when Annecy were to ever decide to run again. Then you'd be telling us how wonderful the IOC is & how they'll make things right if they "choose" Annecy.

You write about me but you know nothing. I said several time here than Munich should have been chosen. And even during the bid process I said the same thing about IOC than now. They did the money choice like for Sotchi and lot of other bids in the past.

Annecy is a better place than PC to host WoG, it's a fact, everybody who knows these places could tell you. And Munich should win 2018 WoG. I'm sorry for Korean but PC is a very bad choice, there are nothing interesting for winter sports and it's already a bankrupt for the PC area, it's fact too. Nobody here is able to argument about advantage of PC, every time i hear the same thing, but no arguments.

Now nobody in Europe wants host WoG... It's already a disaster for IOC, how could they continue without Alpin and Nordic countries for WoG ? With two consecutive WoG in Asia, the interest about it in Europe will decrease, and more and more cities in Europe are more interesting to host one shot event like Red Bull Event, Xgames or similar event than wog, it's less expensive, more popular and the show is better.

WoG are done... Thank you IOC.

About Paris, they popular fervor is very light if we compare with the previous bids... And in democratic countries without this support you can't bid. Paris 2024 is over.

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2024 Olympics: Support increased for the Paris bid

Essential to the launch and success of any Olympic bid , popular support is one of the requirements of the French Olympic Movement and political authorities to present a project in Paris for the summer games in 2024.

A few days before the presentation of the findings of the scoping study conducted by the French Committee of International Sport (CFSI) , a Toluna survey to Uniteam Sport shows up popular support for an Olympic bid in the capital.

Thus, 66% of respondents are in favor of the organization of the 2024 Olympics in France, while they were 60% ​​two months ago . The opposition rate is in turn decreased from 33% to 23%.

Not surprisingly, young people are most receptive to the idea of ​​an Olympic bid and, if applicable, an organization on the French territory. In fact, 72% of under 35 support the bid project (+2 points) and even 77% of students (+3).

At the territorial level, the Parisians are overwhelmingly favorable games (70%), again with support increased over the last two months (2).

The opportunity study will have to demonstrate the relevance to present an Olympic project for 2024, particularly with regard to the allocation of costs and the total amount of investment needed to host the international event.

Jean-François Royer, CEO Uniteam Sport, "the subject of the Olympics interested in French and we feel a membership start from them.

In times of crisis, France needs to find projects 'positive' and backbone to create economic and social dynamics. The bid to the Olympics can be an economic and social momentum.

But the French are cautious and want the organization of such a competition is part of a reasonable fiscal framework and its benefits are sustainable. "

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2024 Olympics: Support increased for the Paris bid

Essential to the launch and success of any Olympic bid , popular support is one of the requirements of the French Olympic Movement and political authorities to present a project in Paris for the summer games in 2024.

A few days before the presentation of the findings of the scoping study conducted by the French Committee of International Sport (CFSI) , a Toluna survey to Uniteam Sport shows up popular support for an Olympic bid in the capital.

Thus, 66% of respondents are in favor of the organization of the 2024 Olympics in France, while they were 60% ​​two months ago . The opposition rate is in turn decreased from 33% to 23%.

Not surprisingly, young people are most receptive to the idea of ​​an Olympic bid and, if applicable, an organization on the French territory. In fact, 72% of under 35 support the bid project (+2 points) and even 77% of students (+3).

At the territorial level, the Parisians are overwhelmingly favorable games (70%), again with support increased over the last two months (2).

The opportunity study will have to demonstrate the relevance to present an Olympic project for 2024, particularly with regard to the allocation of costs and the total amount of investment needed to host the international event.

Jean-François Royer, CEO Uniteam Sport, "the subject of the Olympics interested in French and we feel a membership start from them.

In times of crisis, France needs to find projects 'positive' and backbone to create economic and social dynamics. The bid to the Olympics can be an economic and social momentum.

But the French are cautious and want the organization of such a competition is part of a reasonable fiscal framework and its benefits are sustainable. "

This pole seems strange... . 70% Favorable is not realistic, usually french population is more divided about this kind of issue, i think it's closer than 50/50. With the actual economic trouble in France, more people could be against. Definitively 70% favorable is utopian.

When I read french newspaper lot of journalists, professionals, sportsman and politic are not very open minded about Paris 2024, some of them thinks it's not the good moment to bid. Moreover the mayor of Paris prefers host the Universal exhibition than SoG. It will be a not popular decision to bid... I can't imagine politics take this risk.

Boston seems to be too strong to loose. 2028 could be a better opportunity to bid for Paris.

With the new IOC rules, we could imagine a bid from Lyon/Marseille, I hope to see this kind of bid in France.

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This pole seems strange... . 70% Favorable is not realistic, usually french population is more divided about this kind of issue, i think it's closer than 50/50. With the actual economic trouble in France, more people could be against. Definitively 70% favorable is utopian.

When I read french newspaper lot of journalists, professionals, sportsman and politic are not very open minded about Paris 2024, some of them thinks it's not the good moment to bid. Moreover the mayor of Paris prefers host the Universal exhibition than SoG. It will be a not popular decision to bid... I can't imagine politics take this risk.

Boston seems to be too strong to loose. 2028 could be a better opportunity to bid for Paris.

With the new IOC rules, we could imagine a bid from Lyon/Marseille, I hope to see this kind of bid in France.

So you would rather have France bid with a city that's not Paris? You think that's a smart idea? Because that worked out so well for them for the 2004 bid when Lille didn't even make the shortlist.

Interesting how you're talking about the support numbers for Paris and questioning the poll, then telling us how strong Boston looks when their support numbers are equally questionable. Don't quite get that one

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This pole seems strange... . 70% Favorable is not realistic, usually french population is more divided about this kind of issue, i think it's closer than 50/50. With the actual economic trouble in France, more people could be against. Definitively 70% favorable is utopian.

When I read french newspaper lot of journalists, professionals, sportsman and politic are not very open minded about Paris 2024, some of them thinks it's not the good moment to bid. Moreover the mayor of Paris prefers host the Universal exhibition than SoG. It will be a not popular decision to bid... I can't imagine politics take this risk.

Boston seems to be too strong to loose. 2028 could be a better opportunity to bid for Paris.

With the new IOC rules, we could imagine a bid from Lyon/Marseille, I hope to see this kind of bid in France.

I completely disagree about Boston's strength. I think a halfway decent bid from Paris or Berlin would be almost impossible for Boston to beat. I find it tough to believe that France would go back to the IOC with any city other than Paris. Boston's best shot is if Paris stays out and Germany bids with Hamburg. I don't think Rome will be an unbeatable contender. And I don't see the IOC swooning over Durban at its first attempt at bidding - assuming South Africa even gets to that point with a bid.

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Boston seems to be too strong to loose. 2028 could be a better opportunity to bid for Paris.

Umm, can you tell us how. Bcuz that couldn't be farther from the truth. There's still many obstacles for Boston to overcome just as well as any other city out there considering to bid for 2024.

With the new IOC rules, we could imagine a bid from Lyon/Marseille, I hope to see this kind of bid in France.

A joint bid from Lyon-Marseille? Not gonna happen, "new IOC rules" or not. The IOC tweaks their own rules as they go along anyway to suit their own needs & wants. They'll treat such an applicant like they did Manchester & Birmigham until London finally bid & won.

This is still the very entititled IOC we're talking about here, & when it comes to France, they're gonna want the creme-de-la-creme showcase for their elite party & that would be Paris or nothing else.

Interesting how you're talking about the support numbers for Paris and questioning the poll, then telling us how strong Boston looks when their support numbers are equally questionable. Don't quite get that one

Well, consider the source. This is the same individual that claims the IOC made a HUGE mistake by selecting PyeongChang & to "mark his words". Enough said.

And I don't see the IOC swooning over Durban at its first attempt at bidding - assuming South Africa even gets to that point with a bid.

I wouldn't be too presumtuous about that. Especially when the IOC was trying to 'swoon' South Africa to bid for 2020. It's also no huge secret that many high ranking officials within the IOC (not to mention also in the sports world) would like to see an African Olympics sooner rather than later. So any credible effort put forward by South Africa would get serious consideration by the IOC. Not to mention when they hosted a successful 2010 World Cup.

The trick here is, that South Africa would have to make it onto the shortlist. And if they were to, then all bets are off, since by that point, the technical merits of their bid would have been sufficiently addressed. And the IOC membership could then vote by whatever fanciful notions they damn well please. Even with that said, while I could still see South Africa loosing to Paris or maybe Berlin. But a weak Rome bid or a lesser-known new comer like Boston.. not so much.

And don't necessarily fall for the " not on it's first time bidding" misconception, either. Especially when South Africa has bid before in the past. And also when if you want to apply that logic, then we could also apply that to Boston (& Hamburg) as well, city-wise speaking.

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That poll comes from the same agency that the one i posted a few months (for which I was reminded that it was kinda biased). So, take it with a pinch of salt.

Anyway, French officials have been vocal about Paris being our only good option to host the Summer Olympics, they won't go for a provincial town because French politics always tend to put Paris first, and the political will in other cities is non-existent anyway (the upgrade of the Velodrome Stadium in Marseille has turned into such a scandal that I can't imagine them going for an Olympic bid anytime soon for example)

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So you would rather have France bid with a city that's not Paris? You think that's a smart idea? Because that worked out so well for them for the 2004 bid when Lille didn't even make the shortlist.

Interesting how you're talking about the support numbers for Paris and questioning the poll, then telling us how strong Boston looks when their support numbers are equally questionable. Don't quite get that one

The problem in France is : Paris is always chosen for everything, politics think Paris, France is Paris in the mind of people... I think we could offer other possibilities, other concepts. I agree Lille 2004 was utopian and not realistic. But if you build something smart and strong you could offer an alternative credible to Paris.

Lyon/Marseille could be smart for the legacy of SoG, Paris has always everything and Paris doesn't need SOG to develop its infrastructures but in Lyon and Marseille it could be a good opportunity to develop these cities like Barcelona in 1992.

When I said : "Boston seems favorite" is for different reasons. Firstly USA is the most important contributor for IOC, with sponsors and TV broadcast. Secondly they lost with NY and Chicago, it will be very difficult to say No a third time moreover when NBC payed 7$ Billions for the TV rights. USA have less economic problem than in Europe and they are better in Lobbying than France.

A joint bid from Lyon-Marseille? Not gonna happen, "new IOC rules" or not. The IOC tweaks their own rules as they go along anyway to suit their own needs & wants. They'll treat such an applicant like they did Manchester & Birmigham until London finally bid & won.

This is still the very entititled IOC we're talking about here, & when it comes to France, they're gonna want the creme-de-la-creme showcase for their elite party & that would be Paris or nothing else.

I agree with you, IOC does their own rules when they need something. And it's true France = Paris around the world.

But I think it's not impossible one day to purpose a join Bid from Lyon-Marseille. Maybe it will less sexy than Paris, but France is not only Paris.

That poll comes from the same agency that the one i posted a few months (for which I was reminded that it was kinda biased). So, take it with a pinch of salt.

Anyway, French officials have been vocal about Paris being our only good option to host the Summer Olympics, they won't go for a provincial town because French politics always tend to put Paris first, and the political will in other cities is non-existent anyway (the upgrade of the Velodrome Stadium in Marseille has turned into such a scandal that I can't imagine them going for an Olympic bid anytime soon for example)

Paris is always the first for every choice... and indeed the other cities are non-existent but I hope than people will change their mind in the futur. Maybe it's Utopian.

Lyon/Marseille could be a good idea to limit the cost and to offer a legacy in another place than in Paris.

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The problem in France is : Paris is always chosen for everything, politics think Paris, France is Paris in the mind of people... I think we could offer other possibilities, other concepts. I agree Lille 2004 was utopian and not realistic. But if you build something smart and strong you could offer an alternative credible to Paris.

Lyon/Marseille could be smart for the legacy of SoG, Paris has always everything and Paris doesn't need SOG to develop its infrastructures but in Lyon and Marseille it could be a good opportunity to develop these cities like Barcelona in 1992.

I'm obviously not from France so this is an outsider's opinion, but yes, when most of the rest of the world thinks about France, they think Paris. We're talking about an event in the Summer Olympics that hasn't been to France in a century. It might be the only time for another century that France gets to host a Summer Olympics. If you look at Great Britain and Japan, we're talking about cities that hosted 64 years prior and 56 years prior. Paris is a lot longer than that. So if France is going to host the Olympics, the world's biggest sporting event, only once in that long timespan knowing that it might not come back for a long time to come, they're best served by doing it with their biggest city. So yes, I think it is a little utopian to think that France should be looking elsewhere for a legacy that should ideally last a lifetime.

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I'm obviously not from France so this is an outsider's opinion, but yes, when most of the rest of the world thinks about France, they think Paris. We're talking about an event in the Summer Olympics that hasn't been to France in a century. It might be the only time for another century that France gets to host a Summer Olympics. If you look at Great Britain and Japan, we're talking about cities that hosted 64 years prior and 56 years prior. Paris is a lot longer than that. So if France is going to host the Olympics, the world's biggest sporting event, only once in that long timespan knowing that it might not come back for a long time to come, they're best served by doing it with their biggest city. So yes, I think it is a little utopian to think that France should be looking elsewhere for a legacy that should ideally last a lifetime.

I Think you're right. I agree with you.

I'm happy for Tokyo but I wanted to see a bid from Hiroshima or Osaka.

For some countries it seems difficult to purpose another bid than their own capital, like Japan, England, France or Italia for SoG.

Boston it's a kind of Lyon or Marseille for me if I can compare. Boston is not the first city you think about USA but i'm sure it's good choice.

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I'm obviously not from France so this is an outsider's opinion, but yes, when most of the rest of the world thinks about France, they think Paris. We're talking about an event in the Summer Olympics that hasn't been to France in a century. It might be the only time for another century that France gets to host a Summer Olympics. If you look at Great Britain and Japan, we're talking about cities that hosted 64 years prior and 56 years prior. Paris is a lot longer than that. So if France is going to host the Olympics, the world's biggest sporting event, only once in that long timespan knowing that it might not come back for a long time to come, they're best served by doing it with their biggest city. So yes, I think it is a little utopian to think that France should be looking elsewhere for a legacy that should ideally last a lifetime.

And to win a Summer Olympic Bid Race you send your 'A' Team- you go in with all guns blazing. So it has to beautiful, majestic, world famous Paris.

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.

Boston it's a kind of Lyon or Marseille for me if I can compare. Boston is not the first city you think about USA but i'm sure it's good choice.

Except Boston has an urban area populated with over 4 million people and several large indoor arenas and plenty of existing venues, an international airport that welcomed 30 millions people in the past year, while Lyon and Marseille both have about 1,5 million inhabitants in their urban areas, airports that could be qualified as being "continental" at best, and only two indoor arenas each (none over 10,000 seats)...

Lyon or Marseille would be the perfect city to host the European Games however, or maybe even a World Expo (or the smaller kind they had in Zaragoza and Lisbon) since those seem to be less of a challenge (attendance being spread over six months, only one part of the city impacted etc.)

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