StefanMUC Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 They are capable, but it's too near. Albertville Hosted in 1992, whereas Grenoble hosted in 1968. Chamonix could Bid, and have the back up of Hosting the 1st ever Winter Olympics, in 1924, like Athens did with 2004, birthplace of the Olympics. But yes, Albertville are capable of Hosting, but too near, only 22 years ago. Anyway, 2024 will be a tight race between Rome and Paris IMO. Albertville isn't capable of hosting now, nor was it really 22 years ago. The Games were spread out over the region and legacy goes towards zero. Besides, the WOG have grown so much since. Albertville only got the job out of tactics so that Barcelona would win the SOG instead of Paris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hektor Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 (edited) I find your statement quite insulting towards Albertville. its organizers and volunteers. The Games were well staged and worked perfectly. And I was there from the first day to the last. Were you ? The legacy is: the bobsleigh track of La Plagne, the figure skating ice rink in Albertville, the hockey ice rink in Meribel, the ski jumping facility in Courchevel, the curling facility in Pralognan. The tollway to Albertville, the expressway to Moutiers, the TGV high speed train to Bourg Saint Maurice. The refurbishment of Brides les Bains as Olympic Village. Is that zero ? Edited March 5, 2014 by hektor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOtherRob Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 I never said nor think that we have nothing to learn from others, I simply stated that we had nothing to learn from Coe and his band of merry men... No, why would an embryonic bid team want to speak to the Chairman of the organising committee of the last Summer Games? Beats me! Thankfully, this new Paris team seems to have a bit more persepctive and are treating the initial stages of their bid as a learning exercise so they're well positioned when it comes to 2017. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanMUC Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 I find your statement quite insulting towards Albertville. its organizers and volunteers. The Games were well staged and worked perfectly. And I was there from the first day to the last. Were you ? The legacy is: the bobsleigh track of La Plagne, the figure skating ice rink in Albertville, the hockey ice rink in Meribel, the ski jumping facility in Courchevel, the curling facility in Pralognan. The tollway to Albertville, the expressway to Moutiers, the TGV high speed train to Bourg Saint Maurice. The refurbishment of Brides les Bains as Olympic Village. Is that zero ? My apologies to all the - certainly hard working - organisers and volunteers and the lovely 19,000 inhabitans of Albertville... So what if you were there from first to last day? I wasn't, because I was still at school, and even if, I wouldn't have found the idea attractive of going to that provincial town in French Alps, sorry. As for the legacy, how much in use are these sports facilities actually? Ski jumping and bobsleigh tracks always run the highest risks of being white elephants, and the French aren't exactly world class in either these days. I even heard a commentator during a ski jumping broadcast last weekend mention that the French were considering stopping funding for ski jumping altogether due to lack of results. So, that's what I call zero legacy in that area. As for infrastructure projects, fine, would they have come without the WOG? Probably too, just a bit later. I stand by my point that Albertville was only the consolation prize/tactical result to avoid Paris 1992. Good on the organisers and volunteers to go on and make the best out of that, but still not a place that under normal circumstances would have won, I think. But we drift away, subject is Paris 2024, which is a completely different story. Of course that one will be very capable, if there is the (political) will behind it - but it won't be easy, especially with South Africa in the race too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zekekelso Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 I never said nor think that we have nothing to learn from others, I simply stated that we had nothing to learn from Coe and his band of merry men.... . But what do you think about Finnish food? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchy Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 But what do you think about Finnish food? Just as bad today as it was in 2005! No, why would an embryonic bid team want to speak to the Chairman of the organising committee of the last Summer Games? Beats me! (snip) Same here. Beats me why they would want to meet up with Coe! According to Le Monde the French visitors were more interested in the after Games and legacy, real or imagined, than the bidding process..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.bernham Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 Just as bad today as it was in 2005! Same here. Beats me why they would want to meet up with Coe! According to Le Monde the French visitors were more interested in the after Games and legacy, real or imagined, than the bidding process..... London is certainly the legacy games, that's arguably where France lost the games and it makes sense to focus on that area of the bid if they hope on winning. Legacy will play a HUGE roll in this bidding cycle, especially with South Africa in the mix. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger87 Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 London is certainly the legacy games, that's arguably where France lost the games and it makes sense to focus on that area of the bid if they hope on winning. Legacy will play a HUGE roll in this bidding cycle, especially with South Africa in the mix. Agreed on that. We know Paris will offer a technical quasi-perfect bid. Now, the break it or make it will be the message and legacy -Like London and Rio did-. Tokyo learnt that during 2020 race and won. I won't say, despise my favoritism Paris is a winner from now, but taking the right elements in function will be competitive enough and strong contender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryker Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 Speaking of Albertville, why did the French even bother submitting bids for both the Winter and Summer Olympics for 1992 since Albertville's election practically all but gave the Summer Olympics to Barcelona? Why didn't they just throw all their weight behind the Paris bid or were they skeptical about beating Barcelona and they at least wanted to host something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runningrings Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 I've always wondered that too - why bother with Albertville? I feel that if Albertville had not been bidding - Paris would have stood a far stronger chance for 1992 and may have actually won. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hektor Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 (edited) Because the original idea in France in the early 80s was not to bid with Paris, but with Nice, for what they called "Les Jeux Puissance Deux" (see l'Equipe Magazine from 1984 or 85, I dont remember). Nice would have bid for the Winter Games and the Summer Games with both Games over a period of one month (winter Games in late March, summer Games in early April). They changed the candidates but kept the idea to bid for both Games with the goal to get both. Remember that for the 1984 and 1988 Games there had been very few bidders (one for Summer 1984, 2 for Summer 1988) so getting both Games at the time (1986) did not seem so ludicrous an idea. Indeed 1992 Games were the first bidding process where the outcome of the successful LA Games made it so that the number of bidders increased (six). Of course when they saw there were six bidders for Summer and seven for Winter they realised they would not get both, but they proceeded with both bids. And dont tell me they should have known earlier: 1986, remember there was no internet at the time and getting info on the bids worldwide was not that easy. Edited March 7, 2014 by hektor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryker Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 Interesting. Hard to believe they actually considered Nice as a Summer Olympics candidate. That idea of that would be ludicrous today. Even though getting info. on other bids was harder back then, I would've thought France would've at least seen once Barcelona threw its hat in the ring, that they would be a big challenge for a Paris bid. Then again at the time it wasn't like countries were beating down the doors to host as 1984 and 1988 showed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hektor Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 (edited) They considered Nice because they thought it had the potential to host both Olympics the same year, and that such a stunt would be appealing to the IOC. Maybe it could have interested the Killanin IOC, but obviously not Samaranch's. That would have been interesting though. But we talk about the pre LA84 era. Edited March 7, 2014 by hektor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 That's an interesting tidbit on the French for 1992. Sofia was the favorite for winter 1992 anyway, but JAS' manipulation of the whole race was not enough for the Bulgarians to overcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryker Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 Back to Paris and 2024, I know it was mentioned earlier in the thread that Paris would need to provide a more sustainable legacy that their 2012 plan, fewer temporary venues. The Stade Jean-Bouin (20,000) opened last year as the new home for Stade Francaise rugby. Seems like a good venue for a rugby sevens competition. There are also two retractable roof stadiums in the works. Arena 92 (32,000) will be the new home of Racing Metro rugby and in the suburb of Evry, the Grand Stade de Rugby (82,000) will be the home of the national team. Both stadiums could easily be divided into two arenas for an Olympics. Seems like a good place to start for a bid. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger87 Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 Back to Paris and 2024, I know it was mentioned earlier in the thread that Paris would need to provide a more sustainable legacy that their 2012 plan, fewer temporary venues. The Stade Jean-Bouin (20,000) opened last year as the new home for Stade Francaise rugby. Seems like a good venue for a rugby sevens competition. There are also two retractable roof stadiums in the works. Arena 92 (32,000) will be the new home of Racing Metro rugby and in the suburb of Evry, the Grand Stade de Rugby (82,000) will be the home of the national team. Both stadiums could easily be divided into two arenas for an Olympics. Seems like a good place to start for a bid. Nice proposition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOtherRob Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 Back to Paris and 2024, I know it was mentioned earlier in the thread that Paris would need to provide a more sustainable legacy that their 2012 plan, fewer temporary venues. The Stade Jean-Bouin (20,000) opened last year as the new home for Stade Francaise rugby. Seems like a good venue for a rugby sevens competition. There are also two retractable roof stadiums in the works. Arena 92 (32,000) will be the new home of Racing Metro rugby and in the suburb of Evry, the Grand Stade de Rugby (82,000) will be the home of the national team. Both stadiums could easily be divided into two arenas for an Olympics. Seems like a good place to start for a bid. Surely if the SdF is already in use for athletics Parc des Princes would be where you'd put Rugby. France is a Rugby giant and could host a tournament in a 48k stadium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamC Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 The problem with the new national Rugby stadium is that it'll be located at 35kms from Paris, I don't think it will will be a major part of the venue plan. Paris will have enough indoor arenas by using all the existing infrastructure, including Arena 92, at least when it comes to major indoor sports. A new arena will probably be built for PSG Handball and for a Basketball club, since Qatar Sports Investments is willing to develop those. - Arena 92 1 - Arena 92 2 - Bercy Arena - New Arena + There's the possibilty of a new indoor Centre Court for Roland Garros (they desperately need it to compete with other Grand Slam tournaments), which could be used as an arena during the Olympics. That's enough indoor venues in the 10,000+ range. A bigger issue is, I think: where would the small indoor sports be held? In temporary venues (what Paris 2012 planned)? I don't know if the proposed site is still available. In existing venues (Grand Palais for Fencing, Coubertin, Carpentier)? Coubertin and Carpentier are old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony E Loves Architecture Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 Is the new Velodrome in Paris up to Olympic Standards? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOtherRob Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 Given that it was in Paris 2012's plans originally, cost 68m euros, is the new base for French cycling, and is hoped to have the same galvanising effect Manchester had on Team GB you'd hope so! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOtherRob Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 Found an article in English on the London visit: Paris looks to London with Olympic bid in mindA delegation from Paris visited London this week to pick up a few tips before the French capital is expected to make an official bid to host the 2024 Olympics later this year. But after losing out before are Parisians in favour of bidding again?The 20-strong group, which including the country’s sports minister, visited London on Monday to examine the legacy of the 2012 Olympics in order to learn a few lessons as the French gear up to make an official Olympic bid.The visit comes as Paris authorities weigh up whether to make an official bid to host the 2024 Olympics, which would mark a century since the French capital last hosted the sporting bonanza.“We are here to see what is the legacy of the Olympic Games,” said French Sports Minister Valérie Fourneyron on a visit to the Olympic Park, which hosted most of the events in the 2012 Games.When asked whether Paris would make a bid to host the Games, Fourneyron refused to commit, saying only: “We won’t be a candidate just for the sake of it. We would build a project for France and the legacy can be built in the run-up to making a bid.”Sporting authorities still have painful memories of losing out to London to host the 2012 Games and will only bid again if they feel they will definitely win.The main reason why Paris lost out to London in 2012 was because the UK capital promised a stronger Olympic legacy for the local population, which would eventually transform east London.Part of London's Olympic village was transformed into housing, the old media centre is being turned into a future theatre and the stadium is being converted into a football stadium for West Ham United.Around 400 to 500 people currently work on the site which could rise to around 4,500 to 5,000. It is expected to take London ten years to fully convert the Olympic ParkBy that point Parisians may well be preparing to host their own Games. But do they really want to bid again?A poll for sports newspaper L’Équipe published in the light of the delegation’s visit to London suggested the answer is yes, but only just.Of those polled, 51.9 percent are in favour and 48.1 percent against putting forward a bid. Around 55 percent of respondents believe “hosting the Olympic Games is a luxury that France cannot afford”.Momentum gathered at the end of 2013, when François Hollande met Thomas Bach, head of the IOC, who is believed to be favourable to a Paris bid.There is a still a long way to go however before anything becomes concrete. The deadline for bids is not until 2015, but if Paris is serious about bringing the Olympic Rings to the City of Light then we should know by the end of the year. http://www.thelocal.fr/20140304/paris-olympics-2024-ondon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 Well, the U.S. & a couple of others have also mentioned that "they won't bid again unless they feel they can 'definitely' win". So it could be a deadlock for 2024! :-/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athensfan Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 I still think it's possible that neither Paris, nor the US nor Durban will bid. I think it's more likely we'll get one or two, but it's still conceivable that they'll all back out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanMUC Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 I still think it's possible that neither Paris, nor the US nor Durban will bid. I think it's more likely we'll get one or two, but it's still conceivable that they'll all back out. Bring on Baku! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony E Loves Architecture Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 Bring on Baku! IMO, Baku is not the ideal choice, but is not the worst, Doha is worse. Baku have some great sporting infrastructure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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