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9 minutes ago, ulu said:

It's the enormous building for all that seating that is a waste. Aquatic centres simply don't need that much seating and it's hugely wasteful to build an Olympic size aquatic centre only to then downsize it.

They have the right idea to use an existing arena with a temporary pool and then if Paris needs an aquatic centre they can build one that fits their needs rather than a ridiculous Olympic scale one that no city needs.

Budapest built an olympic sized aquatics venues and already hosted 2 FINA world championships, its not wasteful if theres a plan for using it, atlanta aquatics center now serves as the university main swimming center, and Beijing 2008 swimming center recently hosted curling at the winter olympics, there are far more problematic venues than swimming centers in the olympic games (ehmm....whitewater venues....sliding centers), you can find something to do with a pool, even use it as a public training center like london or tokyo.

Now back in paris they do have the right to use an existing arena, the thing we are debating here is that if they only had 1 aquatics center, they would have no problem in relocating basketball to arena 92, but for some reason they decided to use 2 venues for aquatics which DO is an organizational problem considering basketball (even in prelims) involves lots of competitors, officials and fans.

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15 hours ago, Chris_Mex said:

Only in cities which can give them  the proper use after the games (paris is one of them), lets not forget this beauty of swimming center

This Aquatics Centre was never meant to be a permanent facility. Its swimming pools did get repurposed which you can't see in the photo. The structure's lack of dismantling has, I think, more to do with political retribution of the post-Games mayor than anything. I say that because with the new (previous) administration we're finally seeing some of the temporary facilities being dismantled.

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1 hour ago, SeriousPotato said:

This Aquatics Centre was never meant to be a permanent facility. Its swimming pools did get repurposed which you can't see in the photo. The structure's lack of dismantling has, I think, more to do with political retribution of the post-Games mayor than anything. I say that because with the new (previous) administration we're finally seeing some of the temporary facilities being dismantled.

WHAT picture?

WHo? What city are you talking about??? 

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Two sponsors have been approached for the Paris 2024 torch relay. Banques Populaires and the Caisses d'Epargne, the two French bank companies owned by Groupe BPCE. 

https://www.infobae.com/aroundtherings/articles/2022/07/21/paris-2024-announces-two-new-sponsors-for-olympic-and-paralympic-torch-relay/

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15 minutes ago, SportLightning said:

Two sponsors have been approached for the Paris 2024 torch relay. Banques Populaires and the Caisses d'Epargne, the two French bank companies owned by Groupe BPCE. 

https://www.infobae.com/aroundtherings/articles/2022/07/21/paris-2024-announces-two-new-sponsors-for-olympic-and-paralympic-torch-relay/

So Coke and Samsung are no longer going to be The Relay's sponsors?  So Paris 2024 is really hurting for sponsors if they have to make NOT one, but TWO BANKS as co-sponsors of the thing.  I wonder if they are going to waste fuel and $$ and have the Torch touch down in Tahiti?  Quelle futile!! 

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On 7/21/2022 at 1:23 AM, Chris_Mex said:

Budapest built an olympic sized aquatics venues and already hosted 2 FINA world championships, its not wasteful if theres a plan for using it, atlanta aquatics center now serves as the university main swimming center, and Beijing 2008 swimming center recently hosted curling at the winter olympics, there are far more problematic venues than swimming centers in the olympic games (ehmm....whitewater venues....sliding centers), you can find something to do with a pool, even use it as a public training center like london or tokyo.

Now back in paris they do have the right to use an existing arena, the thing we are debating here is that if they only had 1 aquatics center, they would have no problem in relocating basketball to arena 92, but for some reason they decided to use 2 venues for aquatics which DO is an organizational problem considering basketball (even in prelims) involves lots of competitors, officials and fans.

The addition of women's water polo now necessitates the need for two aquatics venue. All Paris decided to do was make the smaller one they will use for water polo a permanent venue. Far more cost effective then building one like London did the scaling it down and reconfiguring afterwards though I'd argue London's aquatic center has definitely been a plus legacy wise.

Large capacity aquatics centers are not cost effective nor are temporary structures like the one in Rio or even worse the one in Tokyo. I'm sure the folks in Tokyo are thinking they should've pushed harder to move aquatics to the existing natatorium especially since there were no fans anyways. Tokyo's aquatic center was similar to Rio's in that it was designed to be temporary but the covid pandemic made it a disaster financially 

As for the Danube Arena in Budapest, I'd consider that a venue built by a de facto dictatorship which really cares less about long-term legacies. Hosting two aquatics world championships is nice, but I highly doubt a venue of that size turns a profit.

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3 hours ago, stryker said:

The addition of women's water polo now necessitates the need for two aquatics venue. All Paris decided to do was make the smaller one they will use for water polo a permanent venue. Far more cost effective then building one like London did the scaling it down and reconfiguring afterwards though I'd argue London's aquatic center has definitely been a plus legacy wise.

Large capacity aquatics centers are not cost effective nor are temporary structures like the one in Rio or even worse the one in Tokyo. I'm sure the folks in Tokyo are thinking they should've pushed harder to move aquatics to the existing natatorium especially since there were no fans anyways. Tokyo's aquatic center was similar to Rio's in that it was designed to be temporary but the covid pandemic made it a disaster financially 

As for the Danube Arena in Budapest, I'd consider that a venue built by a de facto dictatorship which really cares less about long-term legacies. Hosting two aquatics world championships is nice, but I highly doubt a venue of that size turns a profit.

Well tokyo didnt knew there were going to be a no-spectator games, either way they have a competitive swimming team that will take proper use of the venue. And if I remember correctly London did have a temporary smaller arena for waterpolo isnt it?, building a temporary arena is definitely more sustainable than having to build a new one, and that'd be even better than no having an arena and needing it for the event, its THE OLYMPICS after all, not some regional games

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3 hours ago, Chris_Mex said:

Well tokyo didnt knew there were going to be a no-spectator games, either way they have a competitive swimming team that will take proper use of the venue. And if I remember correctly London did have a temporary smaller arena for waterpolo isnt it?, building a temporary arena is definitely more sustainable than having to build a new one, and that'd be even better than no having an arena and needing it for the event, its THE OLYMPICS after all, not some regional games

Before covid, the cost of the Tokyo Olympics was getting out of hand and the organizers proposed scrapping several now built venues including the Tokyo Aquatics Center in favor of moving the majority of aquatics events to the existing but smaller Tatsumi Aquatic Center which is the home for Japan's national swim team. Instead they caved and built the aquatics Center, Ariake Arena, and a new rowing course  which put the Olympics way over budget even before covid. The aquatics Center is currently not seeing any use and is likely destined to be a white elephant given Japan already had a servicab aquatics center with Tatsumi.

Temporary aquatics centers are the way to go, but as Paris has correctly realized, the most cost effective solution is installing a temporary pool within an existing stadium or indoor arena. Kazan did this for the FINA world championships and Fukuoka is doing the same for next year's FINA world championships (they are using the city's convention center) Purpose built temporary aquatics centers such as Tokyo's or Rio's are too expensive for a one time event. And saying this is the Olympics doesn't work anymore. London's water polo arena was temporary but only had a seating capacity of 5,000 so there was far less temporary overlay needed.

Unfortunately for Paris, scrapping the aquatics center for swimming has created friction with FIBA and IHF

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20 hours ago, baron-pierreIV said:

So Coke and Samsung are no longer going to be The Relay's sponsors?  So Paris 2024 is really hurting for sponsors if they have to make NOT one, but TWO BANKS as co-sponsors of the thing.  I wonder if they are going to waste fuel and $$ and have the Torch touch down in Tahiti?  Quelle futile!! 

They haven't decided if they are going to yet.

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15 minutes ago, SportLightning said:

They haven't decided if they are going to yet.

Well, if Paris COJO has "promised" the Relay to the two banks, then Coke and Samsung are out.  If they wanted to hold on to it, I am sure they would've claimed first dibs already.  I think this is inner politics in the French business community and it looks like COJO wants to bring up as many French companies as they can to the upper Sponsor level.  

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1 hour ago, baron-pierreIV said:

Well, if Paris COJO has "promised" the Relay to the two banks, then Coke and Samsung are out.  If they wanted to hold on to it, I am sure they would've claimed first dibs already.  I think this is inner politics in the French business community and it looks like COJO wants to bring up as many French companies as they can to the upper Sponsor level.  

There's only one right now. That is Groupe BPCE. I'm sure Coca-Cola and Samsung could be added joining them.

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It has been customary over the last few editions of the Games to have among the Torch Relay presenting partners both TOP and domestic partners (e.g. RBC in Vancouver, Loyds in London...)

There will be TOP partners as presenting partners of the Relay.

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Olympic organisers for Paris 2024 ‘in a cold sweat’ as problems mount | Paris Olympic Games 2024 | The Guardian

I'm not the least bit surprised with the mounting costs over security for the ceremonies (Minesweepers?! Really? That should be enough to end this ridiculous idea). Add the fiasco at the Champions League final and there are serious security concerns. I don't doubt for a minute the Olympics will be safe, but Paris is going to break the bank on security costs. I was a bit surprised as well that supply chain issues with building materials are still an issue. Add in white hot inflation, it all adds up to an Olympics that likely goes over budget. No wonder they don`t want to build any more temporary venues (basketball and handball).

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2 hours ago, cfm Jeremie said:

It has been customary over the last few editions of the Games to have among the Torch Relay presenting partners both TOP and domestic partners (e.g. RBC in Vancouver, Loyds in London...)

There will be TOP partners as presenting partners of the Relay.

That's really likely.

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1 hour ago, stryker said:

Olympic organisers for Paris 2024 ‘in a cold sweat’ as problems mount | Paris Olympic Games 2024 | The Guardian

I'm not the least bit surprised with the mounting costs over security for the ceremonies (Minesweepers?! Really? That should be enough to end this ridiculous idea). Add the fiasco at the Champions League final and there are serious security concerns. I don't doubt for a minute the Olympics will be safe, but Paris is going to break the bank on security costs. I was a bit surprised as well that supply chain issues with building materials are still an issue. Add in white hot inflation, it all adds up to an Olympics that likely goes over budget. No wonder they don`t want to build any more temporary venues (basketball and handball).

Uhmmmm . . . 

Remember the famous Maginot Line of 1939.  It was supposed to keep the Nazis away.  

See the source image

I wonder if Estanguet's grandpere was in the Defense Council of France in 1940?  :wacko:

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33 minutes ago, TorchbearerSydney said:

The Opening can't be secured across a whole city, the idea is just dumb. An incident at the Opening will destroy the whole Games.

If they are changing to the Stadium they better hurry up, they have less than 2 years to plan the whole thing!

The 3 big problems are:

1. Securing the river 
2. the Embarking and Disembarking of what? say 8,500 athletes decide to march - at the Trocadero point -- and then returning them to the Village.  That is going to be one BIG bottleneck coming and going.

3.  In addition to moving the athletes, also securing and moving out the VIPs and performers will be another logistical challenge.  
 

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1 hour ago, TorchbearerSydney said:

The Opening can't be secured across a whole city, the idea is just dumb. An incident at the Opening will destroy the whole Games.

If they are changing to the Stadium they better hurry up, they have less than 2 years to plan the whole thing!

If tokyo prepared their whole ceremonies in 2 weeks, surely paris can do it in 2 years :lol:

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1 hour ago, TorchbearerSydney said:

The Opening can't be secured across a whole city, the idea is just dumb. An incident at the Opening will destroy the whole Games.

If they are changing to the Stadium they better hurry up, they have less than 2 years to plan the whole thing!

You really think the whole city isn’t going to be secured for the entirety of the games anyway, much less the opening night? Whether the opening;’s in the Stade de France or he Seine/Trocadero, the security operation is going to be much the same anyway. A ceremony at the stadium isn’t going to preclude an incident happening at a live site or a random boulevard at the same time anyway. Paris, of all cities, knows the challenge of a city-wide attack and on the evidence since then, seems to have learned their lessons from 2015.

4 hours ago, stryker said:

Olympic organisers for Paris 2024 ‘in a cold sweat’ as problems mount | Paris Olympic Games 2024 | The Guardian

I'm not the least bit surprised with the mounting costs over security for the ceremonies (Minesweepers?! Really? That should be enough to end this ridiculous idea). Add the fiasco at the Champions League final and there are serious security concerns. I don't doubt for a minute the Olympics will be safe, but Paris is going to break the bank on security costs. I was a bit surprised as well that supply chain issues with building materials are still an issue. Add in white hot inflation, it all adds up to an Olympics that likely goes over budget. No wonder they don`t want to build any more temporary venues (basketball and handball).

Well, security costs have been ballooning since 9/11 for all hosts, to the point of becoming one of their most expensive line items for all games. And again France, since 2015, can be excused, even applauded, for being even more cautious. As for the Champions League final, it was in one sense a blessing in disguise that they’ve had such a reminder of the challenges they face.

1 hour ago, baron-pierreIV said:

The 3 big problems are:

1. Securing the river 
2. the Embarking and Disembarking of what? say 8,500 athletes decide to march - at the Trocadero point -- and then returning them to the Village.  That is going to be one BIG bottleneck coming and going.

3.  In addition to moving the athletes, also securing and moving out the VIPs and performers will be another logistical challenge.  
 

Of those, I’ll concede that point 2 is a totally new logistical challenge for a games. Then again, obviously that’s going to be studied and fine tuned to the nth degree before it happens live. As for bussing athletes and VIPs away after the event, again, it’s pretty similar to what they’ll need to do after a stadium ceremony anyway.

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53 minutes ago, Sir Rols said:

Of those, I’ll concede that point 2 is a totally new logistical challenge for a games. Then again, obviously that’s going to be studied and fine tuned to the nth degree before it happens live. As for bussing athletes and VIPs away after the event, again, it’s pretty similar to what they’ll need to do after a stadium ceremony anyway.

They could bus maybe 1/4th of them back to the OV but the streets around the Trockadero are small, old Parisian roads.  It's not like they're beside a freeway which would speed the riders back to the OV.  I don't know if many of the big buses can even fit there nor can they make turns in those narrow back-alleys behind the Trockadero area.  
And the boats, I don't know how they came up with "162."  I thought they would commandeer the bateaux mouches which ferry hundreds of tourists every day.  But apparently, they are shooting for smaller boats which can be decorated and offer a really varied assortment.  That's the rub.  But as I said before, this is Estanguet's folly, so let him sink or swim with this.  

 

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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Q: You really think the whole city isn’t going to be secured for the entirety of the games anyway, much less the opening night?

Yes- but not a whole city with 100s of thousands of people in streets and grand stands over 6km of waterfront for starters......it is blatantly a different scenario.

Securing a stadium crowd is obviously easier than a 6KM stretch of crowd in the open. It seems stupid to have to point that out.

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