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The World's Fair is also really easy to screw up badly. Paris has lost enormous sums of l'argent in the past on expositions. There is a lot more freedom in designing an expo than the Olympics, which is good news for cities with cunning and wise politicians, but awful news for the majority of cities which have politicians who don't know much about either economics or urban planning.

I will say, though, that Seattle's two Expos both made a profit and created the two best districts in the city. Barcelona also couldn't have hosted the Olympics without the public infrastructure from its two Expos. Vancouver probably couldn't host the winter games without the infrastructure from its Expo either. With good legacy planning an Expo can be better for a city than the Olympic Games.

Edited by Nacre

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On 1/26/2018 at 9:42 AM, RuFF said:

It’s looking more and more like the transport plan is going to have to be reconfigured.

http://www.straitstimes.com/world/europe/macron-balks-at-price-tag-for-paris-grand-transport-plan

Big issue for Macron. That was one of the things that helped him win his election, his transit program. And although the Olympics would survive in the Metro's current state, it would be less than ideal for the tourists and locals alike. I really hope France can fix this, and use the deadline for these Olympics as their main motivation for following through with it. It's not like this is a a stadium the French do not see as valuable. This transportation improvement will benefit the city for years to come.

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What's this?! Some deliciously delayed schadenfreude? So what say you, all the Paris 2012 supporters who went on about London's transport system and the risk of going to a city where one of the major transport routes wasn't yet built but which ran perfectly smoothly when the Games arrived as promised? Hmmmm? Hmmmmm? HMMMM? nixweiss.gif

Paris will surely have no problems transport-wise even without the new additions, but it is amusing.  :lol:

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On 2/1/2018 at 2:00 AM, Rob. said:

What's this?! Some deliciously delayed schadenfreude? So what say you, all the Paris 2012 supporters who went on about London's transport system and the risk of going to a city where one of the major transport routes wasn't yet built but which ran perfectly smoothly when the Games arrived as promised? Hmmmm? Hmmmmm? HMMMM? nixweiss.gif

Paris will surely have no problems transport-wise even without the new additions, but it is amusing.  :lol:

Even many of LA's will be done in 2024, and they ended up getting the 2028 Games. Tsk, Tsk.

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IPC change Paris 2024 Paralympics dates

The International Paralympic Committee (IPC) have announced that the dates for the Paris 2024 Summer Paralympic Games have been changed with the event now set to take place from August 28 to September 9.

The decision by the IPC Governing Board at a meeting here sees the Games in the French capital move from September 4 to 15 so they are now one week earlier than originally proposed.

The new dates mean the first half of the Paris 2024 Paralympic Games will now take place during the school holidays - a move approved by both the IPC and the International Olympic Committee (IOC) in a bid to give the Paralympic Games more exposure.

Last month, it was reported that the Olympic Games would start one week earlier than planned between July 26 and August 11.

....

https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1062331/ipc-change-paris-2024-paralympics-dates

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They could move the school holidays by one week to the right too to do the other half of the way

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https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1063372/paris-2024-volleyball-and-badminton-abnormally-expensive-french-government-inspectors-warn

I thought this would come up eventually especially regarding the temporary venues at Le Bourget. It would surprise me to see one or both of these venues trimmed from the plan. Maybe they could move volleyball and or badminton to the Paris expo Porte de Versailles.

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Their plan isn't based on the LA model and they have not done anything other than looking for potential cost cutting options. They are planning to do something similar to London's aquatics center that was downsized after the games and always have been.

This really isn't the place for jingoism. The point of the Olympics is international solidarity and good sportsmanship rather than mudslinging. If you can't post in the Paris thread without trying to claim that Los Angles (and America) are better than Paris (and France) then perhaps it would best to ignore this thread and stick to the thread for LA.

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Actually Nacre, it looks like the plan at the moment is to create a permanent but downsizeable aquatic centre but they may be moving towards a fully temporary one instead.

Of course, it's silly to call the latter the LA model given that Rio had a temporary aquatic centre in 2016.

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Some other news on the venue front:

- The Aquatics Center will be semi-temporary. A 15k-seat temporary pool will host the Swimming events; a permanent 50m-pool will host Water Polo; and a permanent diving pool will host Diving. Originally, Water Polo was supposed to be held in a separate venue (Stade Marville), but now Stade Marville will still be renovated and used as a training venue. Obviously this will save money, which is good news in terms of legacy.

- Fencing will no longer be held in a temporary arena in Le Bourget (next to Volleyball and Shooting). The temporary arena will instead be built somewhere inside Paris, to avoid paying eviction fees to the current landowners in Le Bourget.

- The Media Village will be sightly smaller (1300 units instead of 1500) and the Athletes' Village masterplan has changed to reduce the amount of evictions of current tenants.

source: http://www.leparisien.fr/sports/la-piscine-sera-bien-semi-demontable-05-06-2018-7753218.php

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https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1066434/venue-shifts-the-only-cloud-in-paris-2024-sky-on-a-bright-first-day-for-ioc-coordination-commission-visit

Looks like the venue plan isn't finalized/ No surprise as they often change. What is surprising though is the basketball venue is penciled in as the article says. Seems like of all the venues that basketball would be one of the sure things with Bercy Arena and a smaller arena (Marcel Cerdan)  and a new Bercy Arena (basketball and judo). It's not like Paris has another 15,000+ arena to spare unless they plan on reconfiguring the U Arena in the same manner Atlanta did with the Georgia Dome (half for basketball half for gymnastics). Maybe then they move volleyball to Accorhotels Arena (Bercy I) to fill the void left by basketball and then save money by cancelling out the two temporary arenas in Le Borget and scrap plans to build the smaller Bercey II arena? I assume then you could move judo to perhaps the Paris Expo. Just speculating here.

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11 hours ago, Rob. said:

He's obsessed. It's rather sad.

I agree.  Ruff is very obsessed and it is indeed sad.

As for AA.. if the mantra going forward is "be like LA 2028," then the IOC is turbo-fucked.  LA is an anomaly.  A wonderful anomaly that the IOC should be thankful was there in the right place at the right time.  But there is no way for virtually any other city to be like LA.  This isn't a matter of management or planning.  What LA can offer simply doesn't exist elsewhere.  And if Paris isn't enough like LA to where Tammy and Tommy Taxpayer are on the hook, where else could they legitimately expect that to happen?  If the Summer Olympics are largely being relegated to mostly the mega-cities of the world (and that's not necessarily a bad thing), so be it.  However, if those cities don't fall under the "your stuff has to be built already" heading - and AA continues to point the finger at Paris that they do not, then what city is capable of offering that other than LA?  Not sure another such city exists, so it's foolish to say the IOC should be hopeful of finding one.

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1 hour ago, stryker said:

Any word on when the final venue plan and sports schedule will be released? 

Didn't Tokyo just release their sports schedule?  So that would mean we're likely about 4 years off from that.  If I understand correctly, proposals for new sports will be heard in Milan next summer.  Subject to apporval in December 2020.

In short.. it'll be awhile.

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1 hour ago, Quaker2001 said:

Didn't Tokyo just release their sports schedule?  So that would mean we're likely about 4 years off from that.  If I understand correctly, proposals for new sports will be heard in Milan next summer.  Subject to apporval in December 2020.

In short.. it'll be awhile.

Yeah exactly.

Paris' can change many times before the final plan.

 

I expect LA's to change as well as even more venues are being announced and slated for completion before 2028 and independent of the Olympics.

 

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So Fiac is officially moving to a temporary exhibition hall in the Champ de Mars Gardens near the Eiffel Tower while the Grand Palais undergoes renovations. I am assuming that this is also the proposed new venue for badminton in 2024. While I realize Wikipedia is not the most reliable source, the Paris 2024 page shows volleyball being moved from Le Bourget to Halle Georges Carpentier (too small) with finals being held at Roland Garros and boxing being held at the Suzanne Lenglen Court with a temporary roof.

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Some further tweaks to the venue plan this week. The second Paris Arena, called Bercy II which was to host basketball, judo, and wrestling has been scrapped. Judo and wrestling will now be held on the Champs-Elysses in the temporary exhibition hall being used by the Grand Palais while it undergoes renovation. All basketball games, men's and women's, will be held at the AccorHotels Arena. Badminton will be moved to Porte de la Chappelle near Stade De France though the specific sports arena for it was not named. The temporary aquatics center will now host all aquatics events so I assume this mean the downsized permanent facility that was supposed to hold water polo has now been scrapped. Volleyball will still be at a temporary arena in Le Bourget though I predict eventually they'll scrap this due to cost concerns and move it to the Paris Expo Hall.

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6 hours ago, stryker said:

Some further tweaks to the venue plan this week. The second Paris Arena, called Bercy II which was to host basketball, judo, and wrestling has been scrapped. Judo and wrestling will now be held on the Champs-Elysses in the temporary exhibition hall being used by the Grand Palais while it undergoes renovation. All basketball games, men's and women's, will be held at the AccorHotels Arena. Badminton will be moved to Porte de la Chappelle near Stade De France though the specific sports arena for it was not named. The temporary aquatics center will now host all aquatics events so I assume this mean the downsized permanent facility that was supposed to hold water polo has now been scrapped. Volleyball will still be at a temporary arena in Le Bourget though I predict eventually they'll scrap this due to cost concerns and move it to the Paris Expo Hall.

Actually Paris Arena 2 has not been scraped: it has been moved to Porte de la Chapelle and will host Badminton.

The Olympic Aquatics centre was originally to be a 15,000 seater reduced to 5,000 post-Games (hosting Diving, Swimming as well as Artistic Swimming and Water Polo Finals) with Water Polo Preliminaries to be hosted in a renvated Aquatics Centre in Marville.

In the updated plan, the Olympic Aqiatics Centre will have on permanent pool of 5,000 (2,500) post Games hosting preliminary waterpolo, diving and artistic swimming and a temporary 15,000 pool for Swimming and Water Polo finals. The renovated facility in Marville will be used for training.

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Big news, especially for ceremony nerds:

Quote

Stade de France is undergoing extensive refurbishment in Saint-Denis

In the run up to the 2024 Summer Olympics, the Stade de France is undergoing extensive refurbishment in Saint-Denis near Paris. Details have been published by the French newspaper L'Equipe.

In addition to a capacity expansion not yet known in its size, additional space will be created for commercial and office buildings. Currently the capacity is 80,000. In addition, a retractable roof is to be installed in order to be able to carry out events regardless of the weather. If implemented in this way, the Stade de France would be Europe's largest stadium with a retractable roof. The stadium should thereby meet the most modern standards.

L'Equipe reports that the renovation could cost up to € 450 million. That would be 40 million euros more than the construction cost in 1997. The conversion should be completed in 2023. In addition to the 2024 Olympic Games, the stadium is also the final location for the Rugby World Cup 2023, this was reported by ESPN.

https://www.stadionwelt.de/sw_stadien/index.php?head=Stade-de-France-in-Saint-Denis-wird-umfassend-renoviert&folder=sites&site=news_detail&news_id=18569

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7 hours ago, Rob. said:

LOVE to see it, but don't love that cost ... 40 million more than the construction cost? Wonder how much of that will actually go through. After the Marcana going virtually unused for months after Rio 2016 to the point it was looted, to Tokyo 2020 downgrading its stadium multiple times (I personally prefer the garden stadium over the bicycle helmet though), I will not keep my hopes up for this renovation to go exactly as planned.

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All true but one thing Stade de France will never be is short of use. It’s a true national stadium with no real competition like in Brazil or Japan. Not to mention that if it comes to it, this can be junked much more easily - Stade de France is basically Olympic ready right now (once the seats are in track mode). So I’m not really sure what this is really for Olympic-wise - unless they really want indoor ceremonies. Any pics?

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