Paris 2024

[JO2024]

[Rob2012]

Maybe I'm a tad cautious, that much I concede. However, Rob, you gotta consider that the starting points for the Paris 2024 campaign is way different than Paris 2012. Back then, whilst not exactly doing swimmingly, the French economy looked robust - one of the engines of growth of the Eurozone besides Germany. Fast forward 12 years and criticism of the expenses of the bid are more likely going to sting that they did back then: The French economy is a mess, unemployment at an all-time high, their debt is skyrocketing and the nation's infrastructure is crumbling.

Am I missing something here? Parisians know the economic situation in their nation yet they still back the bid with nearly 60% behind it. I'm slightly confused by your argument. What I'd basically like to know is, given that most of the venues are built, and that Parisians have gone through this process before, what horrible surprise could come that would dent support? What detail will be revealed in their bid plans that will change people's minds?

Really? What's funny about studying abroad?

Oh well, have fun you guys! JO JO JO JO JO JO JO JO JO JO JO JO JO JO JO JO JO JO JO JO!

I'm more than slightly confused now. Ermmmm.....what's going on?!

EDIT: Thank God for Google. Not an acronym I've come across before.

Wankers.

Edited April 7, 2015 by Rob.

[zekekelso]

I'm more than slightly confused now. Ermmmm.....what's going on?!

EDIT: Thank God for Google. Not an acronym I've come across before.

Wankers.

One of the purposes of the games bids forum is to promote cultrual sharing around the world.

[DamC]

Fast forward 12 years and criticism of the expenses of the bid are more likely going to sting that they did back then: The French economy is a mess, unemployment at an all-time high, their debt is skyrocketing and the nation's infrastructure is crumbling.

That last part is absolutely not true.

Your picture of the France of the early 2000s is quite off. Unemployment was rising as fast as it is today (levels were lower obviously), it stabilized around 2004/2005 and went down after the games were awarded to London*. Regarding the debt, it has always been skyrocketing like that for the past 25 years. It was not a problem before the financial crisis but it is seen as one now.

*Anyway, i don't think unemployment would be a factor against a bid. If there's any benefit to organizing the Olympics that is undeniable it's that it creates jobs. The main problem is that you'll have the government try to convince people that spending billions for this event would be a good thing in times when the state is trying to spend less and there is this sentiment of an overdose of taxes.

[StefanMUC]

The question is not how the situation was 12 years ago, but how it is between today and 2017.

From an outside viewpoint, France appears to be in a very critical state right now, economically, politically and socially. How else could the cohorts of Marine LP get more and more votes in each election?

Going forward with a bid may be a risk worth taking to give the nation a boost etc, but having overall approval of 58% in a very generally worded poll don't mean a thing. Of course, there may be many venues already in place, but there still needs money to be spent. When plans become really concrete, and there's still clear support, we can talk.

2017 is election year in France, probably before the IOC session. I'm pretty sure anyone opposing the bid will use it in their campaign.

[plusbrilliantsexploits]

The question is not how the situation was 12 years ago, but how it is between today and 2017.

From an outside viewpoint, France appears to be in a very critical state right now, economically, politically and socially. How else could the cohorts of Marine LP get more and more votes in each election?

Going forward with a bid may be a risk worth taking to give the nation a boost etc, but having overall approval of 58% in a very generally worded poll don't mean a thing. Of course, there may be many venues already in place, but there still needs money to be spent. When plans become really concrete, and there's still clear support, we can talk.

2017 is election year in France, probably before the IOC session. I'm pretty sure anyone opposing the bid will use it in their campaign.

Precisely!

And you bet the FN will happily use the bid and any cost estimates as evidence of more "wasteful spending" by the "Paris elite"..

[JO2024]

So you guys mean that no European country should bid for the next 30 years? Cause what you've said about France pretty much applies to all of the Western European countries.... Germany might be in a slightly better situation (on the surface), but in reality it's a lot worse than what people think. And you do know that the rising of the extreme right wing parties is happening in many European countries, right? Not only France.

Let's just wait and see what the bid will be like and see what the parisians and the French think about it.

[StefanMUC]

So you guys mean that no European country should bid for the next 30 years? Cause what you've said about France pretty much applies to all of the Western European countries.... Germany might be in a slightly better situation (on the surface), but in reality it's a lot worse than what people think. And you do know that the rising of the extreme right wing parties is happening in many European countries, right? Not only France.

Let's just wait and see what the bid will be like and see what the parisians and the French think about it.

The last part is precisely what I said before. And looking at the recently failed referendums/withdrawn bids for 2020/2024, there certainly is a huge scepticism in those European countries capable and potentially interested to host. So, it's not about France only, it's a general issue that may or may not be addressed by Agenda 2020.

But France specifically is in the spotlight because a) Paris is widely regarded as fave if it bids and the rise of the extreme right to almost 1/3 of election votes in one of THE major European countries must be a big concern, and certainly not just in view of the Paris bid.

[plusbrilliantsexploits]

So you guys mean that no European country should bid for the next 30 years? Cause what you've said about France pretty much applies to all of the Western European countries.... Germany might be in a slightly better situation (on the surface), but in reality it's a lot worse than what people think. And you do know that the rising of the extreme right wing parties is happening in many European countries, right? Not only France.

Let's just wait and see what the bid will be like and see what the parisians and the French think about it.

I think most economists would disagree with your assessment and tell you that Germany isn't just doing well "on the surface": Why do you think the victims of the Mediterranean debt crises are flocking here. Whether it's vocational training, a balanced budget, relatively decent labour relations, low inflation, world-class infrastructure or our organizational skill, no one seriously doubts the ability of Germans to successfully host the world when the Olympic Games finally return to our shores.

No one (myself included) seriously doubts the capacity of Parisians to do the same, so no need for you to take it as an attack on France as a country or Paris as a prospective host. I'd love to see Olympic Games in Paris, whether Hamburg survives its own referendum or not. But: Public opinion during a pronounced economic crisis is a b...ch, and France is in a rut. That's a fact. And during such crises, people are receptive for populist arguments against "the elites, their pet projects, their power" and all that tired BS that purveyors of populism from the political extremes always trot out.

We have also contained the far-right quite nicely: In France, there is a solid 25-30% delighted to vote for Marine Le Pen and that number has increased to the point where there little doubt that she will feature in next year's presidential run-off and score a far more respectable score than her father could have ever dreamt of. But I digress, the FN's rise is a separate topic.

By the way, whilst I don't doubt my own country's capacity to pull off the Olympic Games extremely well (just look at the 2006 World Cup, as well as many European and World Championships of the various IFs that have already been hosted by Germany), I do doubt the German population's general capacity to see beyond themselves and their immediate benefit.

Since the Olympic Games don't net a profit margin for the common man, it's easy to launch diatribes against them...that's how Berlin blew its chance to hst the 2000 Summer Olympics and Munich destroyed its excellent position by agreeing to a public referendum. It was a dumb move, and given today's weak field (Beijing? Almaty? Oh please...), Munich would be an easy favourite to secure the Winter Games. I'm all for involving the public in serious consultations regarding the scope of venues and construction work. But referendums? Not so much.

Imagine we had held referenda in every proposed FIFA World Cup location for Germany 2006: It would have been moved to South Africa instead.

[JO2024]

I have to agree that Hamburg stands as much chance to host as Paris. I'm honestly just desparate to see Paris finally host again, though if it bids and is considered a favourite, I'm know it doesn't mean anything at all and we could get a chance to lose again for the 4th time.

If Hamburg get those Games, it would be the 3rd Summer Olympics in Germany since the last in France. Huh.....

If you look at all the cities who hosted before and want to host again, they all include venues from their previous Olympics and I think it's nice (Rome, Berlin, Munich, Tokyo, etc.), but when I look at Paris, none of the previous venues would be used since...they don't exist anymore (it was so long ago). But I know this is not how things work, and it's not because it's been too long that Paris SHOULD get the Games.

I just think that France, like Germany, is most certainly capable of hosting great international sport competitions. You just have to see all the major ones coming between now and 2018: Cycling world championship 2 months ago, Rowing world championship in 2015, UEFA Euro Cup in 2016, Handball world championship in 2017, Ryder cup in 2018. Paris will even be hosting the Gay Games in 2018!!

[yoshi]

How likely is it that Le Pen becomes President in 2017?

[StefanMUC]

Is this turning into a France vs Germany debate, because Plus and me are Germans and cautious about Paris?

As long as Germany is pursuing Euro 2024, Hamburg will be a non-option for the IOC, I'd say.

[JO2024]

No no no, it's not a war between France and Germany. Those 2 countries are the best buddies, and I would be happy for Germany to get the Games, again, though obviously, being French and living in Paris, I'd love to have the Games here.

Yoshi, Le Pen being president in 2017 is very very unlikely. It will be like 2002 again. All of the voters from right and left wings would vote for whoever she is againts on the "second tour".

[plusbrilliantsexploits]

No no no, it's not a war between France and Germany. Those 2 countries are the best buddies, and I would be happy for Germany to get the Games, again, though obviously, being French and living in Paris, I'd love to have the Games here.

Ditto for me! Olympic Games in Paris are the next-best thing to having them in Hamburg!

[plusbrilliantsexploits]

Is this turning into a France vs Germany debate, because Plus and me are Germans and cautious about Paris?

As long as Germany is pursuing Euro 2024, Hamburg will be a non-option for the IOC, I'd say.

The guys over at the DSOB need to have a serious word with Niersbach about that purported German Euro bid: It's foolish to sacrifice the Olympic Games for yet another football tournament. It's like the United States saying "Nah, the Superbowl is quite enough, thank you". Just stupid, especially as we have already hosted two World Cups and one European Championship in the past 40 years alone...enough already with the Euro crap, let's give it to Italy or Turkey instead.

[Rob2012]

But then again, Euro 2024 is a near certainty for Germany, a winning Olympic bid is not.

[Quaker2001]

But then again, Euro 2024 is a near certainty for Germany, a winning Olympic bid is not.

Someone should have reminded Turkey of that for 2020

[zekekelso]

France and Germany, the best of best buddies.

As I say a lot around here, things change.

[baron-pierreIV]

As I say a lot around here, things change.

[BR2028]

How likely is it that Le Pen becomes President in 2017?

About as big of a chance as a KKK leader becoming the US President.

It will probably come down to Le Pen and Sarkozy in a final runoff with Sarkozy winning.

[BR2028]

The guys over at the DSOB need to have a serious word with Niersbach about that purported German Euro bid: It's foolish to sacrifice the Olympic Games for yet another football tournament. It's like the United States saying "Nah, the Superbowl is quite enough, thank you". Just stupid, especially as we have already hosted two World Cups and one European Championship in the past 40 years alone...enough already with the Euro crap, let's give it to Italy or Turkey instead.

Well you know we kinda did say "Nah, the Superbowl is quite enough, thank you" for six years.

[hektor]

How likely is it that Le Pen becomes President in 2017?

Zero probability. You need 50% + 1 vote to get elected. 25% leads you nowhere.

[Rob2012]

Just read that Paris city council has approved the city's bid for the 2024 Olympics.

So it's all systems go!

Edited April 13, 2015 by Rob.

[hektor]

So that you are not overenthusiastic. There is an interview of Hidalgo in Le Parisien

http://http:/www.leparisien.fr/informations/anne-hidalgo-jo-2024-une-grande-consultation-en-2016-05-04-2015-4666187.php

Etes-vous favorable à un référendum ?
Comme les autres villes candidates, on programmera une grande consultation en 2016. Je veux qu'elle permette aux Parisiens d'exprimer leur engagement.

Are you in favor of a referendum?
Like the other candidate cities , a large consultation will be programmed in 2016. I want it enables the Parisians to express their commitment .

So she still has foreseen an exit gate, with a open answer about a referendum in 2016. If she feels uncomfortable politically with the bid, the "large consultation" takes the shape of a referendum and we all know how this will end.

Edited April 13, 2015 by hektor

[JO2024]

Ouiiiii! I didn't doubt it, but it's nice to see that pretty much everyone is on board with the bid, no matter their political side. François Hollande will be visiting the IOC in Lausanne this week and will of course meet Thomas Bach to discuss Paris 2024. And now, polls from yesterday show that 61% of the French and 63% of the parisians are supporting a bid.

Bernard Lapasset, the bid's leader, was on TV yesterday on a national channel (France 2) and discussed the bid. They mainly talked about the previous failed bids and learning from their mistakes. What they won't do now, compared to Paris 2012 is: not let the project be carried on by the politicians but rather by the athletes and sports people; don't use nostalgia (Paris 1924, etc.) but think in terms of future for Paris and it's region; create a strong relationship with IOC members; and finally, keep humble and modest.

I don't know how and when the Paris 2024 bid will be officialised (I think in June), but to me this is pretty much official now...

So that you are not overenthusiastic. There is an interview of Hidalgo in Le Parisien

http://http:/www.leparisien.fr/informations/anne-hidalgo-jo-2024-une-grande-consultation-en-2016-05-04-2015-4666187.php

Are you in favor of a referendum?
Like the other candidate cities , a large consultation will be programmed in 2016. I want it enables the Parisians to express their commitment .

So she still has an exit gate, with a open answer about a referendum in 2016.

It won't be a referendum though, Paris city council already voted against that.