Nacre Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 We are sliding a bit off the topic, but in most of the big European countries the most successful clubs have traditionally come from the second tier, industrialised cities. Even though London has many teams in the top divisions, the best English teams come from the north, Manchester and Liverpool. Spain is an exception but the foundations for Real Madrid's success were laid during the Franco era, when the club represented the central government. Paris and Berlin maybe too diverse to be football hotbeds. Anyway, Stade de France was meant to serve as a French national arena and there are very few clubs that need a stadium for 80,000 spectators. Berlin's Olympiastadion might also be too big for Hertha who only slightly exceeded the 50k mark in the previous season. It's not really off topic, though, because the question is what does each city need for its sports fans. And the Olympics are at least theoretically about sport. Anyway, when you consider that Machester -a city of 2.5 million- can handle a 78,000 capacity stadium for United on top of the 48,000 for Manchester City, Paris' 12.3 million people should be able to support two big teams. Stade de France gets plenty of Football Games. France plays most of it's Games there. Also, Athletics Meetings and UEFA Euro 2016 etc. Yes, but the French national team only plays during the international breaks. That still leaves the club season open, and the costs of maintaining Stade de France are high enough that it would be a big help to have a club playing there on a regular basis. It might be a problem scheduling around rugby though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 Yes but that's denying two simple truth about olympics bids. Firstly that there is others countries able to do one as good as you and Secondly there will be one great bid for at least one of those countries. Well, but the real thing is, what really entails a "great" bid, though. What might be one to some, may not be the same for others. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but I would think that most bids understand that they'll be up against competition. Otherwise it wouldn't be called a bid "race". But again, it doesn't seem unreasonable for some, especially from strong repeat bidders, like Paris & the U.S. to start becoming more cautious in throwing their hat in the ring, with the probability of failure once again. It's easy for someone standing on the sidelines to be critical, but when you're the one that's put in all the sweat & tears & gave it your all only to come short again & again, then you start to question whether another strong effort should be in the cards. Just look at Madrid. They thought by going a third time, they were going to follow in PyeongChang's footsteps. They were counting on all the work they've already done by building the facilities & having two previous failed bids on their belt to finally take them to victory. Well, that didn't happened. And now they've said that they're not bidding for 2024. Can't say I blame them in that regard. Although, their failures really go deeper than that. But that a whole other topic. But Its only human nature to know when to call it quits, or at the very least question if yet another round over something you really want is worth the major effort & dedication considering how vigorous & quirky the big contest is in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woohooitsme83 Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 Yes but that's denying two simple truth about olympics bids. Firstly that there is others countries able to do one as good as you and Secondly there will be one great bid for at least one of those countries. No one is denying that the US can win an olympic bid for example, but there is no chance a SOG race end up in a 2022 situation where LA is left only with Baku. Sure the US can 2024 but like Tokyo in 2020, they will have at least to defeat one of the likes of Rome, Berlin and Durban etc That may be true, but there will be no garuntYes but that's denying two simple truth about olympics bids. Firstly that there is others countries able to do one as good as you and Secondly there will be one great bid for at least one of those countries.That may be true but there is no guarantee that they may bid. If recent events have shown, ifs and is has been shaking the bid mix. Yeah, you're right, there will be bids better than yours, but are they even going to put it in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob2012 Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 Yes, but the French national team only plays during the international breaks. That still leaves the club season open, and the costs of maintaining Stade de France are high enough that it would be a big help to have a club playing there on a regular basis. It might be a problem scheduling around rugby though. I'm not sure how things work with the Stade de France, but if it's anything like Wembley then there wouldn't be enough dates in the calendar to support a full club schedule. With Wembley, when you add in all the various cup finals, league play-offs, concerts, Rugby matches, a few NFL fixtures etc it hosts, it's actually a pretty busy stadium even without a club. Unless there are plans otherwise, and unless the SdF is struggling financially, this is no more than speculation. Paris has its ready made stadium for hosting athletics should it bid and win. That's all that matter with regard to this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nacre Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) Unless there are plans otherwise, and unless the SdF is struggling financially, this is no more than speculation. That's precisely what I've heard: that the upkeep is high because of the size and complexity of the stadium, and that Paris has been looking for a football club to serve as a tenant since 1998. I can't find a link right now, though, and can't remember where I heard that -it was a couple of years ago. There's also State Sebastien Charlety, but that's got a track in it. Anyway if Paris DOES eventually bid for another Olympics, I think a plan for another top quality football team on the north or east of the city should be involved. In the same way that a Los Angeles Olympics needs to find a solution to the problem of bringing an American football team to the city. Edited October 17, 2014 by Nacre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanMUC Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 Problem is that at least in Western Europe, football teams aren't usually relocated like big 4 franchises in North America. Most prominent example is Wimbledon/MK Dons I guess, and in Germany recently the rise of RB Leipzig after Red Bull bought out a Leipzig suburb club on 5th level. But those few cases have met with strong resistance from fans, so whoever would want to find a way to move some other club to SdF may find it difficult to fill seats there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nacre Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 There's no need to move a club. Paris has Red Star and Paris FC. They just don't have the economic muscle to move up the promotion ladder. A new stadium and new ownership could change that, though. It's possible I am overestimating Paris as a sports city, though. Maybe there simply is not enough appetite for football to support two major clubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reindeer Posted October 18, 2014 Report Share Posted October 18, 2014 It's possible I am overestimating Paris as a sports city, though. Maybe there simply is not enough appetite for football to support two major clubs. I'm inclined to believe this is truly the case. Certainly no appetite for a club to move into a stadium as big as Stade de France. Even PSG despite their star players is not vastly popular and seems happy at their centrally located and more intimate Parc des Princes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony E Loves Architecture Posted October 19, 2014 Report Share Posted October 19, 2014 Stade de France is obviously doing well, it's been standing for the past 16 Years. Like Rob pointed out, not all Stadiums need a Club Team. I actually like the idea of the National Stadium, only Hosting the National Team when it comes to Football. Wembley with England, Stade de France with most of France's Matches etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luffy Posted October 19, 2014 Report Share Posted October 19, 2014 And stade of France also host a lot of rugby matches, concerts etc. Is it really that strange to other countries that people and politics in France like the idea of having 20 teams in 20 rather big cities instead of having 7 clubs in Paris just because it's the capital ? Paris has a good football, handball, more than decent Basket and two Rugby teams, does it really need more than this ? I think that's cooler to have a first league team in almost in every big city but that's just my opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nacre Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 (edited) Is it really that strange to other countries that people and politics in France like the idea of having 20 teams in 20 rather big cities instead of having 7 clubs in Paris just because it's the capital ? Paris has a good football, handball, more than decent Basket and two Rugby teams, does it really need more than this ? Not because it's the capital, but because of the number of people living in and around Paris. Paris: 12 million population Lyon: 2.1 million population Marseilles: 1.7 million population Toulouse: 1.2 million population Lille: 1.1 million population It's not wrong for Paris to only have one team. But it is very unusual compared to other countries. London has five Premier League teams. Istanbul has four Super Lig teams. Buenos Aires has something like twelve teams. It just seems very strange to me that there is no football team for the North or East of Paris when there are millions of people living there. Edited October 20, 2014 by Nacre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamC Posted October 25, 2014 Report Share Posted October 25, 2014 Stade de France gets €10M every year from the French government for not having a primary tenant. That's how the stadium actually generates "profits" (around €2 millions in 2011). But I don't see a team moving in any time soon, even if Paris FC gets to Ligue 1. It simply doesn't seem possible. But the stadium already hosts a fair share of events, and, unlike Wembley in London, benefits from being the only 60k+ stadium in the region. This will change when the new National Rugby Stadium is built, if it ever gets built. But Stade De France will still have the advantage of being closer to Paris and within walking distance of 3 Metro/RER lines, and even more when the new Grand Paris Express gets built. What could benefit local clubs however is a new indoor arena (Nanterre's basketball club couldn't play the Euroleague on their home court last season for example, same for PSG Handball who is looking for a larger and more modern home than the ageing Hall Coubertin. And Qatar is also looking towards buying Paris Levallois Basketball to turn them into PSG Basket, with a state-of-the-art arena it could happen). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.bernham Posted October 26, 2014 Report Share Posted October 26, 2014 Changing topic from the football clubs and post use of the stade france, what will the venue plan look like. Will it look close to Paris 2012 or have a very different appearance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamC Posted October 26, 2014 Report Share Posted October 26, 2014 We have nothing official yet, so everything i'm gonna write in this post is speculation (based on what has been built in Paris, the available lands, planned venues etc.) First of all, the Olympic Village won't be in the same place. Paris 2012 planned to build it on the Clichy-Batignolles rail yards. The land has been redeveloped into a new residential neighborhood since. It was, i think, the last viable location for an Olympic Village inside the city of Paris. Now planners will have to look elsewhere in the suburbs (where there is pleeeenty of space not that far from Paris and with easy public transit access, existing or planned). Regarding the North Cluster where most indoor sports would have taken place in 2012 (in temporary arenas spread along a boulevard between the northern limit of Paris and Stade de France), it's the same problem. Most of the land is being used for the new Condorcet Campus currently under construction. To replace it, Paris Expo in Porte de Versailles (next to Parc des Princes and Roland Garros) going under heavy refurbishment over the next 10 years, could be an important part of the bid, it's large enough to host 4 indoor arenas + the existing Palais des Sports (which is actually more of an amphitheatre, perfect, albeit a little under capacity, for Weightlifting) + the Main Media Centre. The small Pierre de Coubertin Sports Arena is also nearby (it hosted the Badminton World Championships two or three years ago and could host the Olympic Tournament) The land for the Swimming complex (next to Stade de France) is still available, and the project still is in limbo. An Olympic bid would be a great way to bring the project back in the spotlight. The Olympic Velodrome which was only a project at the time of Paris 2012 is now open (and will host the World Championships next year). The Rowing/Canoeing venue would likely be the same. The slalom river still needs to be built. Bercy Arena is currently closed for two years to modernize and expand it. It will probably have a more important role for a future bid than it did back in 2005. (Gymnastics?) Now the new venues... Racing Metro is getting a new indoor rugby stadium in Nanterre, it could be split in two and turned into arenas for the games (like the Georgia Dome in Atlanta). Let's say for Handball and Volleyball. The National Rugby Federation plans to build a brand new 80k-seat stadium with a retractable roof in the South of Paris, but it's really far from the center, i don't think it should be used for anything other than Football or Rugby Sevens. As I said in my previous post, a new indoor arena for the Handball and Basketball teams of the region could be built and used for Basketball during the games. tl;dr: some venues would be the same as the 2012 bid, except for most of the indoor arenas and the village. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hektor Posted November 5, 2014 Report Share Posted November 5, 2014 There was a big meeting about the bid organised by at the headquarters of the CNOSF yesterday and there was no high ranking official from the Government, city or region. My take on it is that there is a consensus of the French political level to forget about the Olympics and bid for the 2025 World Fair. The CNOSF and friends are left to themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamC Posted November 6, 2014 Report Share Posted November 6, 2014 Hollande said on TV tonight that he would back a bid if the mayor of Paris gets on with it (basically). He also said he supports the World Expo bid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memorabilia Posted November 6, 2014 Report Share Posted November 6, 2014 Hollande said on TV tonight that he would back a bid if the mayor of Paris gets on with it (basically). He also said he supports the World Expo bid The French President said that he is in "favor" a bid for 2024, which is slightly different of backing or supporting.... But yes, that first that shoukd the call of the Paris' mayor. He also confimed that Paris is officially bidding for the 2025 World Expo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runningrings Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 Ugh - I want to see 2024 in Paris so much! Hamburg or Rome just doen't cut it! Its time to get some France in your pants! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hektor Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 Once again: the mayor of Paris does not want it and I don't see how she could be coerced into bidding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted November 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 (edited) Where is Paris going to put the 2025 expo if they get it which I don't see how they can't, the BIE being based right there in Paris anyway?? Edited November 7, 2014 by baron-pierreIV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchy Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 Hollande said on TV tonight that he would back a bid if the mayor of Paris gets on with it (basically). He also said he supports the World Expo bid No he didn't. As memorabilia pointed out he said he was "in favour [of a SOG] if She (Paris that is) decides to bid". Which you'll agree is a different kettle of fish. Once again: the mayor of Paris does not want it and I don't see how she could be coerced into bidding. She doesn't have a veto so doesn't need to be coerced, only convinced. In the past she simply stated that she hadn't been elected to organise a SOG and that if a SOG were to be held it wasn't for the Parisians to pay for it. Besides, it's not for city hall to bid but the French NOC. Responding on the radio this morning Guy Drut said that Hollande's statement was "encouraging". Ugh - I want to see 2024 in Paris so much! Hamburg or Rome just doen't cut it! Its time to get some France in your pants! Beware what you wish for!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hektor Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 (edited) You can imagine the chances of a bid where the mayor of the bid city would be against it. And wait for the opinion polling too because Hidalgo is against it because the Paris population is against it. Paris 2024 has zero chance to happen. The whole Paris 2025 World Fair nonsense has been invented as an alternative to the Paris 2024 bid. Once the bidding deadline for 2024 passed I predict that the World Fair bid will evaporate. Edited November 7, 2014 by hektor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hektor Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 Hidalgo is giving a press brief about the topic right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hektor Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 Decision in January according to her press brief http://sport24.lefigaro.fr/jeux-olympiques/actualites/paris-2024-hollande-favorable-hidalgo-veut-attendre-721440 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamC Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 The French President said that he is in "favor" a bid for 2024, which is slightly different of backing or supporting.... Ok, i probably used the wrong word. But what we're sure of now, is that it's up to the mayor (who seems very ambivalent on the subject, which makes sense when you consider how a large number of people are against the games/the government spending money on "big useless projects"). This is kinda weird when you think about it since most of the possible venues would be outside the city limits anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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