baron-pierreIV Posted April 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 Much as I love Paris, the existing venues in metro Paris for a SOG are really quite crappy and outdated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanMUC Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 I think that with Heldagos Sunday victory, the national election will be very interesting. Im pulling for a far-right victory even if it is not beneficial to a possible 2024 bid, the main thing that should come before ANY Olympic Bid should be economic stability for a bidding nation. We have seen it time and time again, across Europe; Whenever the Socialist gain control the destroy the nations. Just look at Spain, Italy or Greece, France is heading down a similar road. France needs to take the time to fix its inner-problems before mounting a bid. With that said I would still love to see Paris bid for the 2024 games, but if it means 7 years of the IOC being on hands and needles watching the French economy spiral, then I think it would be best for them to sit it out. Furthermore France needs a party that is not far-left or far-right, a party that can find common ground and make France a strong nation again. Because under conservative Sarkozy France was economical paradise, right? And Greek Nea Demokratia had wonderful economic ideas. Not to mention the solid base Berlusconi anc Aznar created in Italy and Spain only to be destroyed by evil socialists once they came to power. Bernham, you must be one of those Americand thinking Europe is socialist hell. Give me a break. Hollande is weak and Le Pen dangerous, indeed these are critical points for a Paris bid. Bug a right/center government doesn't automatically make things better. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2014j Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 Much as I love Paris, the existing venues in metro Paris for a SOG are really quite crappy and outdated Are you referring to some venue in particular? StadeFrance maybe? also Parc des Princes hardly looks a jewel.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.bernham Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 @Stefan, no Europe is not a Socialist Paradise, but on one hand it has been controlled by the far sides of spectrum's for too long. A little too much of something is never too good, in this case far-right or far-left governments just continue to hurt Europe. They need ground parties that can appease both spectrum's in a positive way. In my personal view Europe could be stronger if the EU was taken more seriously, maybe something a bit like what we have in the States. Now I'm not saying the US is the best system but it's worked for close to 300 years, were doing something right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ofan Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 Oh yes, because congress is so effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.bernham Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 I'm not referring to our congress, the Europe system would be similar but allow for "breathing" space between countries, Much like America was meant to be and was until the Civil War. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamC Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 Much as I love Paris, the existing venues in metro Paris for a SOG are really quite crappy and outdated. Which ones? And by the way, Hollande's economic policy is not really 'socialist', it's pretty much social democracy, or social liberalism, like Tony Blair (who was PM of Britain when London won the Olympics) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted April 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 #1 - Stade de France doesn't have much space around for auxiliary facilities. #2 - The Omni Bercy stadium seems so old and creaky. #3 - What convention center does Paris have to accommodate 4 or 5 of the "box" sports? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.bernham Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 I agree with Baron, the metro has been outdated for quite a while since the late '80's. The sports facilities could use work as well, on top of this their original plan for the Olympic Village in 2012 will not work because the land is already being developed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athensfan Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 There's something wrong with this picture when people are saying that the likes of Paris and LA may not have the necessary technical qualifications to host. Must every Olympic city reinvent itself with a makeover before it can host? If that's the expectation, then things have gone way too far. I'm not criticizing the posters on these boards. I'm saying that if the IOC feels they have to make major concessions by going to Paris as-is, then the IOC needs a serious reality check. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Coast Lions Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 Which ones? And by the way, Hollande's economic policy is not really 'socialist', it's pretty much social democracy, or social liberalism, like Tony Blair (who was PM of Britain when London won the Olympics) Tony Blair is very much an Conservative a Conservative on fiscal and foreign polices only Liberal on social issues he is like Margaret Thatcher 2, Hollande is very much an socialist fiscal socialist he is everything Socialist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanMUC Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 @Stefan, no Europe is not a Socialist Paradise, but on one hand it has been controlled by the far sides of spectrum's for too long. A little too much of something is never too good, in this case far-right or far-left governments just continue to hurt Europe. They need ground parties that can appease both spectrum's in a positive way. In my personal view Europe could be stronger if the EU was taken more seriously, maybe something a bit like what we have in the States. Now I'm not saying the US is the best system but it's worked for close to 300 years, were doing something right. LMAO. Show me all those far-left governments. And there's only one really far-right one, in Hungary. Socialist as a term for a political party does not mean the country they rule is a second Cuba. Europe has far more middle ground and less polarisation politically than the US. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamC Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 Hollande's policy is NOT socialist, and it will still not be now that Manuel Valls is Prime Minister. The leftiest part of the majority is even disappointed in this choice and are starting to turn their back. #1 - Stade de France doesn't have much space around for auxiliary facilities. #2 - The Omni Bercy stadium seems so old and creaky. #3 - What convention center does Paris have to accommodate 4 or 5 of the "box" sports? #1 - Kinda true I admit, though I don't know how much space is really needed. #2 - it's getting renovated and expanded this year: #3 - Paris has three large exhibition centers: Paris Expo, Le Bourget, Villepinte. But I don't think they'll be part of the bid, since they weren't for Paris 2012. Instead several temporary arenas would be built. But it's still too early to tell anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob2012 Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 There's something wrong with this picture when people are saying that the likes of Paris and LA may not have the necessary technical qualifications to host. Must every Olympic city reinvent itself with a makeover before it can host? If that's the expectation, then things have gone way too far. I'm not criticizing the posters on these boards. I'm saying that if the IOC feels they have to make major concessions by going to Paris as-is, then the IOC needs a serious reality check. Does the IOC feel that way? I don't think they do! The best measure we have of the IOC's attitude towards a Paris bid was in 2005. Then they lost the most competitive race in recent Olympic history by a tiny amount. A better presentation, or a slightly weaker field, or Chirac not making wise-cracks about cuisine and Paris could've already hosted. I see no reason for huge changes to their 2012 bid, no reason to believe they didn't mostly offer what the IOC was after, and no reason for the hyperbole in this thread from a couple of posters re: their politics. Paris just needs the will and the timing in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted April 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 #1 - Kinda true I admit, though I don't know how much space is really needed. At least a 10,000 seater auxiliary stadium beside it...as a holding tank for the athletes and performers of the Opening Ceremony, esp, as a prospective Village isn't exactly w/in walking distance of the Stade, is it? And space for TV trucks, etc., beside it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.bernham Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 @Rob, but there will have to be major changes because many of the sites they planned to build on during the games have been developed since 2005. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Coast Lions Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 Also 2005 is a different world then the current in 2014 France is going down the tubes now economy weak government and more mess to be made by the government of France in the next coming years and o course France could be lead by La Pen from 2017 - 2027 which will be more bad news for an France bid, Italy new Prime Minister does not support an Olympics Games bid so Berlin Germany will be the leading city for the 2024 games in Europe Germany has an strong government and economy in a better shape then the USA and Berlin Germany games will be magical games an great games and 35 years after the fall of the Berlin Wall and 1st games in the United Germany. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob2012 Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 (edited) @Rob, but there will have to be major changes because many of the sites they planned to build on during the games have been developed since 2005. Sure, there will have to be some changes, but the scope and scale of the project, the scale of the regeneration, and the general approach shouldn't be much different. My point was disputing the idea that the IOC disliked Paris' approach. I see little evidence for this and don't think they need to do-a-Sochi to win. I was also disputing posts like this one.... Also 2005 is a different world then the current in 2014 France is going down the tubes now economy weak government and more mess to be made by the government of France in the next coming years and o course France could be lead by La Pen from 2017 - 2027 which will be more bad news for an France bid, Italy new Prime Minister does not support an Olympics Games bid so Berlin Germany will be the leading city for the 2024 games in Europe Germany has an strong government and economy in a better shape then the USA and Berlin Germany games will be magical games an great games and 35 years after the fall of the Berlin Wall and 1st games in the United Germany. I don't know why I'm engaging with such ridiculousness, but France is still a $2 trillion economy, with a high GDP, a history of hosting excellence be it World Cups or World Athletics Championships or Euro 2016 coming up. It is a city with the size, scope and infrastrcture to cope, and a World City with few peers culturally. We are seeing a Rio Games in 2016 and as much as I'm looking forward to those Games, that city has problems with housing and water and crime that would be deemed crisis-worthy in a city like Paris. Yet they're hosting. On no level do your arguments that Paris can't host stack up. As for the politics, well that's a side-show. As long as France's politicians are united behind a bid that will be all that matters. If La Pen reached the run-off we could well see another election like Chirac's last victory where the anyone-but-La-Pen candidate wins by default. Berlin could host a superb Games. I'd be extremely torn if both Paris and Berlin bid. But Berlin itself is not a rich city by German standards. You seem blind to this when pushing for it and contrasting it with Paris' situation. Edited April 2, 2014 by Rob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamC Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 At least a 10,000 seater auxiliary stadium beside it...as a holding tank for the athletes and performers of the Opening Ceremony, esp, as a prospective Village isn't exactly w/in walking distance of the Stade, is it? And space for TV trucks, etc., beside it. The Aquatics Centre is planned next to Stade de France, that could work fine, right? Also Stade de France hosted the IAAF World Championships, the Rugby World Cup, will host the Euro in 2016... so I think it can deal with TV trucks and such. Also 2005 is a different world then the current in 2014 France is going down the tubes now economy weak government and more mess to be made by the government of France in the next coming years and o course France could be lead by La Pen from 2017 - 2027 which will be more bad news for an France bid, Italy new Prime Minister does not support an Olympics Games bid so Berlin Germany will be the leading city for the 2024 games in Europe Germany has an strong government and economy in a better shape then the USA and Berlin Germany games will be magical games an great games and 35 years after the fall of the Berlin Wall and 1st games in the United Germany. Le Pen won't lead the country in 2017, what a ridiculous thing to say. It will probably be Sarkozy, or someone else from his party if Sarkozy doesn't want to come back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted April 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 The Aquatics Centre is planned next to Stade de France, that could work fine, right? Also Stade de France hosted the IAAF World Championships, the Rugby World Cup, will host the Euro in 2016... so I think it can deal with TV trucks and such. Oh, if that's the case, then that should work just fine. And I guess they can find space for the TV trucks, hospitality pavilions, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanMUC Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 Also 2005 is a different world then the current in 2014 France is going down the tubes now economy weak government and more mess to be made by the government of France in the next coming years and o course France could be lead by La Pen from 2017 - 2027 which will be more bad news for an France bid, Italy new Prime Minister does not support an Olympics Games bid so Berlin Germany will be the leading city for the 2024 games in Europe Germany has an strong government and economy in a better shape then the USA and Berlin Germany games will be magical games an great games and 35 years after the fall of the Berlin Wall and 1st games in the United Germany. Again no clue about reality in Berlin. You made more sense with your incessant Almaty promo a few months ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zekekelso Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 A "hurting" French economy is still stronger that almost any other country out there. And this might just be me, but I'll take a facitility that is less than 100% modern but is IN PARIS over a more modern building just about anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.bernham Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 @DamC if the FN party shows with their 12 towns/cities that they are a real party capable of running government, then 2017 could be a victory for them. They are not the same party they were in 1990 and due to ailing French Economy (which, yes it's not at breaking point, but it is still in very bad shape) they are gaining popularity with the French. They almost got Paris for Lords Sake! They are becoming a bigger power-player in French politics and I see them gaining even more popularity in the coming years. @GoldCoastLions No, just no. Yes the French economy is in a bind, but it is not as bad as you make it appear. IF Paris does bid with a similar plan to 2005 as rob pointed out, then I could see the FN backing it. As for Berlin...as much as I would LOVE for them to bid their already spend 590 Euros on reconstructing the City Palace, not to mention other massive reconstruction projects to make Berlin look like a unified city. While Berlin IS a perfect symbol of what the Olympics represent I just can not see them bidding for 2024. Maybe in the 2030's, Germany still has a little way to go in unification and while an Olympics could bring a boost I think 2024 is off the table for now. @Rob, okay I see your point. @DamC I thought that general region of the city had been developed since the bid? I know for sure that the original site for the village is out of the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwissO Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 New sport minister in France http://www.insidethegames.biz/olympics/summer-olympics/2024/1019232-belkacem-vallaud-named-new-french-sports-minister-and-set-for-key-role-in-paris-2024-bid This is not a good move for a Paris 2024 bid.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanMUC Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 New sport minister in France http://www.insidethegames.biz/olympics/summer-olympics/2024/1019232-belkacem-vallaud-named-new-french-sports-minister-and-set-for-key-role-in-paris-2024-bid This is not a good move for a Paris 2024 bid.... Why not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.