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5 hours ago, Roger87 said:

Yep. People tend to forget but there was a time which Putin had the respect and goodwill of the West (Berlusconi and Schroeder wanted to make the EU's application process to Russia). 2007 was the last stage of goodwill. But also like FYI mentioned, Russia has another factors in consideration

Still, in some races (Especially the tight ones), leaders really matter alongside narratives, geopolitics, resources and goodwill. It's part of a full machine. Ex.: Part of the reason which Athens was selected it was thanks to this woman - Dora Bakoyannis, which completely changed the perception of the Greeks to the IOC (After the fiasco of 1996 race), especially comparing the arrogant Rome mayor

Dora_Bakoyannis_cropped.jpg

I think you overstate Bakoyannis' part.  She only came in at the end when she was Athens' mayor while Athens hosted.  It was Gianna Daskalaki who brought home the bacon for Athens; and she was called on not once; but 2x to run the bid AND the Organizing Committees.

the years 1997 - 2004 saw a lot of female "firsts" within the bidding and mayoral ranks of Olympic cities.

1997 - Athens finally won it with Daskalaki at the bid's helm.  (She then stepped away, but was called back in 2001 when the preps were faltering.  Note: Actress Melina Mercouri had led the ill-fated 1990 bid.) 

1998 - At the Nagano Closing, Dee Dee Coradani of Salt Lake CIty was the first female mayor in history to receive the "Olympic flag" for the next set of Games.  (A Ms. Crystallin for awhile headed the Torino bid & OCOG.) 

2001 - Gianni returns to the Athens OCOG.

2003 - American businesswoman Barbara something or other spearheads the London 2012 bid. 

2004 - Gianna opens the Games; Bakoyannis plays her part as sitting mayor of the Olympic host city.  

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What’s frustrating is that Los Angeles is the most substantial American city for the games and always loses out to unprepared and, frankly, inferior bids by other American cities (Boston, Chicago, NYC). There’s a constant underestimation of Los Angeles, and I might say, even resent, of the city from other parts of the country even though it’s responsible for changing the trajectory of the Games with 1984. 

My opinion is that Los Angeles may possibly have the best bid ever put forth for an Olympic summer games. The use of UCLA as an athlete’s village is absolute genius. That feature I believe is LA’s strongest point. The facilities there are world-class and designed for elite athletes. From an athletic standpoint, it’s like staying at the Ritz Carlton of facilities, responsible for 241 all-time Olympic medals. With USC which is the designated media village (will athletes get to train there?), they have combine 499 medals which would be equal to #9 rank of countries. 

 

And I think the IOC knows it’ll be a huge cost to their future if LA decides not to bid again if it loses out. Thus the 2028 consolation proposal from Bach. I’m betting on it. The favorite from the beginning was Paris, and even after everyone realized how much they’ve underestimated how perfect LA is for the games, it’s still Paris. Paris has lost the bid 3 times (usually as a favorite) and it’ll be a huge slap in the face if they don’t get it this time. They don’t have to be better than LA. They just have to be good enough and they’ll land the games. Learning that most IOC members don’t even read the visit reports is very telling. They won’t vote pragmatically. It’ll be political and/or emotional and superficially considered. 

It’ll be Paris for 2024 and LA for 2028. Although I think 2028 is the better deal if both cities can think reasonably and get over “winning.” LA would have breathing room for an even more extensive public transit system. (Best case scenario, the high speed rail finishes a year earlier) And by that time, downtown LA would be even more formidable. 11 years will come fast. And 7 years might come too fast. 

 

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1 hour ago, baron-pierreIV said:

I think you overstate Bakoyannis' part.  She only came in at the end when she was Athens' mayor while Athens hosted.  It was Gianna Daskalaki who brought home the bacon for Athens; and she was called on not once; but 2x to run the bid AND the Organizing Committees.

the years 1997 - 2004 saw a lot of female "firsts" within the bidding and mayoral ranks of Olympic cities.

1997 - Athens finally won it with Daskalaki at the bid's helm.  (She then stepped away, but was called back in 2001 when the preps were faltering.  Note: Actress Melina Mercouri had led the ill-fated 1990 bid.) 

1998 - At the Nagano Closing, Dee Dee Coradani of Salt Lake CIty was the first female mayor in history to receive the "Olympic flag" for the next set of Games.  (A Ms. Crystallin for awhile headed the Torino bid & OCOG.) 

2001 - Gianni returns to the Athens OCOG.

2003 - American businesswoman Barbara something or other spearheads the London 2012 bid. 

2004 - Gianna opens the Games; Bakoyannis plays her part as sitting mayor of the Olympic host city.  

Oh true. Thanks baron. Somehow I mismatch Dora with Gianna.

ETA: I watched an extract of TV and on Fox Sport Latin America the commentors were in a small debate calling certain part of "the LA2024 press" as "shameful" for attitudes and lies. My first thought, you know which one. I wonder if Abrahamson's articles, instead of helping for the LA2024 cause, it may create a backlash (Like the Spanish press for 2020 race) especially for IOC. LOL if this happens :D 

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43 minutes ago, Roger87 said:

ETA: I watched an extract of TV and on Fox Sport Latin America the commentors were in a small debate calling certain part of "the LA2024 press" as "shameful" for attitudes and lies. My first thought, you know which one. I wonder if Abrahamson's articles, instead of helping for the LA2024 cause, it may create a backlash (Like the Spanish press for 2020 race) especially for IOC. LOL if this happens :D 

Well, they're certainly not gonna help. Especially when her latest "piece" on Anne Hidalgo was pretty much on the verge of trolling, & was called out on it by ITG.

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1 minute ago, FYI said:

Well, they're certainly not gonna help. Especially when her latest "piece" on Anne Hidalgo was pretty much on the verge of trolling, & was called out on it by ITG.

I wonder how you know who will defend his Pope after this tour of debuking lol.

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1 hour ago, jtrevino said:

What’s frustrating is that Los Angeles is the most substantial American city for the games and always loses out to unprepared and, frankly, inferior bids by other American cities (Boston, Chicago, NYC). There’s a constant underestimation of Los Angeles, and I might say, even resent, of the city from other parts of the country even though it’s responsible for changing the trajectory of the Games with 1984. 

There's what now?  The bid process for the 2012 Olympics began less than 20 years after the 1984 Olympics.  It was too soon to put LA up for bid, particularly with Atlanta only fairly recently in the rear view mirror.  Some people made the argument that the USOC needed to exhaust all other options before they considered LA again.  Well, that's largely what has happened.  There's no underestimation of LA so much as there are political factors where LA, even with an ideal bid, wouldn't get selected by the IOC.  I'm a life-long New Yorker and remember the 2012 bid well.  There were competing sentiments of "yea, maybe this could work" (until the West Side Stadium deal fell apart and a lot of "this is pointless, there's no way this plan will win."  It's why that bid was a 1 shot deal.  Someone with a vision gave it a shot, but then he and the city moved on.  And with all the animosity against the IOC these days, there's probably plenty of people from outside LA happy to see them going after it since it means that city and not their own is trying to get in bed with the IOC.

Quote

My opinion is that Los Angeles may possibly have the best bid ever put forth for an Olympic summer games. The use of UCLA as an athlete’s village is absolute genius. That feature I believe is LA’s strongest point. The facilities there are world-class and designed for elite athletes. From an athletic standpoint, it’s like staying at the Ritz Carlton of facilities, responsible for 241 all-time Olympic medals. With USC which is the designated media village (will athletes get to train there?), they have combine 499 medals which would be equal to #9 rank of countries. 

It's been brought up here many times.. if this was a contest based on technical merit, I would like LA's odds a lot better.  But it's not.  The village plan I agree is a great asset.  But..

Quote

And I think the IOC knows it’ll be a huge cost to their future if LA decides not to bid again if it loses out. Thus the 2028 consolation proposal from Bach. I’m betting on it. The favorite from the beginning was Paris, and even after everyone realized how much they’ve underestimated how perfect LA is for the games, it’s still Paris. Paris has lost the bid 3 times (usually as a favorite) and it’ll be a huge slap in the face if they don’t get it this time. They don’t have to be better than LA. They just have to be good enough and they’ll land the games. Learning that most IOC members don’t even read the visit reports is very telling. They won’t vote pragmatically. It’ll be political and/or emotional and superficially considered. 

Or course it's political and perhaps emotional.  That's how the IOC for better or worse, mostly worse.  That's the game that LA needs to play here, even if their bid is as perfect LA is.  And we're still talking about Paris.  Not like they've got some second rate bid that's only getting consideration because of political means.  Hence the double award, which was made a lot easier when these were the only 2 cities left standing.

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1 hour ago, FYI said:

Well, they're certainly not gonna help. Especially when her latest "piece" on Anne Hidalgo was pretty much on the verge of trolling, & was called out on it by ITG.

I'll try to found that discussion, but even without mentioning "names" the description really fits B):P, it's telling how the Abrahamson's trolling impact may be massive for the upcoming news thanks to Internet.

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1 hour ago, FYI said:

Well, they're certainly not gonna help. Especially when her latest "piece" on Anne Hidalgo was pretty much on the verge of trolling, & was called out on it by ITG.

Or clear delusion... Or BOTH. Seriously, who ever read that latest "piece" related to Anne Hidalgo and Emmanuel Macron must let with cautionary ban for using him as argument. And ironically I wasn't wrong, Abrahamson's knowledge of French politics and government processus is null and pathetic and that work belonged to conspiracy theory than a realistic fact. He may have +20 years commenting the Olympic races, but like I mentioned related to Bill O'Reilly, that doesn't guaranteed confidence.

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1 minute ago, RuFF said:

The Cinderella story that actually ended up being a fraud. Sounds much like Etienne Thobois. But it's business as usual with Paris 2024. 

Now with disqualifications...

tenor.gif

But hey, you must know the concept of ideological fraud currently isn't it?

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3 minutes ago, RuFF said:

Another douche who downplays LA, but of course that's not of interest because this dude is trying to make a point, however, he isn't making the point that he's doing the same thing. Take a stroll to the Paris thread to see for yourself. Paris Paris Paris over there, and LA is some sort of novice city over here.

but you dickheads aren't going to talk about that.

1m94.jpg

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1 minute ago, RuFF said:

Another douche who downplays LA, but of course that's not of interest because this dude is trying to make a point, however, he isn't making the point that he's doing the same thing. Take a stroll to the Paris thread to see for yourself. Paris Paris Paris over there, and LA is some sort of novice city over here.

but you dickheads aren't going to talk about that.

For first time, you said a sort of right thing in one point. Congratulations TRuff. True, Abrahamson doesn't always like to repeat himself (Albeit he's doing currently), and he tries to create a point. The only bad thing is when he speaks of Paris, he prefers saying "alternative facts" or "bad communication process" as people are discovering today. Meanwhile, while speaking to Los Angeles, like a LEGO Movie - "Everything is Awesome" doesn't matter federal issues, lack of public transport or another problems while dismissing the adversary with pathetic fights: the sun campaign (Maybe i'm wrong, but the last thing I remember, the Sun is public and in case of private and intellectual property Japan, Argentina, Uruguay and Peru can demand for these rights btw), the Facebook line, the public spending (Even when Barcelona and London exists). 

Maybe the point with the Paris thread is, even with shade, this can't reach the levels of delusion and trying for this thread and 99,99% is thanks to you and your Pope.

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6 minutes ago, RuFF said:

Give me some tips? Haha.not needed. All one has to do is read your consistent downplay of LA. 

But alas, the race has tightened on LA's merits, merits you've argued on this thread that didn't exist. 

Tell us again how the dorms at UCLA are crap? 

You are so far removed from reality, it's like you're not even trying anymore.  You have no concept of what is actually going on in this bid race or what other people here are arguing.  At this point, you're just inventing your own arguments.  It's like watching a baby try to sh1t without a diaper.

How about this.. show me where I said the UCLA dorms are crap.  Find the post where I ACTUALLY made that argument.  I'll be happy to show you numerous posts where I said I think LA is doing a great thing with proposing dorms.  And consequently how this is still about politics and when someone like Roger is bringing up past bids, that's not downplaying LA, that's completely ignoring how the IOC voting works.  But whatever.. keep living in your own world and ignore the real world.  If I need some powerful hallucinogens, I know where to turn to!

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9 minutes ago, RuFF said:

Haha.not needed. All one has to do is read your consistent downplay of LA.

Hypocrite.

4 minutes ago, RuFF said:

I'm sorry Roger, but labeling things to your benefit does not make them true.

Obviously you speak from experience.

5 minutes ago, RuFF said:

The most idiotic thing anybody can do is take a stand and believe they possess some sort of knowledge and therefore it cannot be challenged. 

You mean like you do all the time here, & then turn to cheap, petty insults when people here don't 100% agree with you & challenge you for it.

7 minutes ago, RuFF said:

But perhaps if you weren't a douche and downplayed LA only, you might have a conversation about it.

Again, hypocrite. Cuz you're always downplaying Paris. But since you're the biggest douche of all on these boards, then it's impossible to actually have anykind of conversation about it here. 

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1 minute ago, RuFF said:

I'm sorry Roger, but labeling things to your benefit does not make them true.

The most idiotic thing anybody can do is take a stand and believe they possess some sort of knowledge and therefore it cannot be challenged. You can label me what you'd like, but my role has pointed out areas of LA, regardless of the bid, that are strong points. Do I think Trump is a LNV issue, of course. But can the bid at the same time stand on its own, it can. Just as said this last page Trump is one issue, but the Athletes Village is another issue. Whether private funding or government funding is an issue is another factor, which also may or may not resonate with the voting members. But perhaps if you weren't a douche and downplayed LA only, you might have a conversation about it.

 

as far as Abrahamsons letter to Anne Hidalgo, if indeed she has presidential aspirations, there is a risk tied to her and her political career. Just as there would be to Eric Garcetti in his own political aspirations if a Games in LA proved to be catastrophic for the city. 

This post deserves every analysis of consideration

I'm sorry Roger, but labeling things to your benefit does not make them true.

Didn't you bite your tongue when you said this before writing? Because it's simple HILARIOUS you wrote this.

The most idiotic thing anybody can do is take a stand and believe they possess some sort of knowledge and therefore it cannot be challenged.

This could have been true if I (or we) did something related to that, instead, I (along to others in this forum) revoque almost every point related to Abrahamson and his "alternative facts", and guess what, 99% of these points were revoked of being truth and everything happened in a similar way like we said (The No Olympics referendum, the letter of Liberation, the conflict between Hidalgo and Macron, Melenchon's negative, Le Pen's triumph in elections). The point isn't related if an event can't be challenged or not, it's related to factors and arguments. Otherwise I could say - Los Angeles will be destroyed by an earthquake. May this happen? True, but that doesn't have any guaranty or point of discussion. And that's exactly what Abrahamson did every time he was speaking related to Paris.

Maybe you don't want to believe, but some people here have also experience in international affairs, journalism and media, institutions, political analysis and many of the comments which came for discussion have a certain point of logical justification. Our opinions, beyond personal preference, are actually based in factical experience.

You can label me what you'd like, but my role has pointed out areas of LA, regardless of the bid, that are strong points.

First of all, we don't deny LA bid. If any case we said LA is an strong bid. The point of criticism is always returning to the same weak and lame points, which were debuked over and over. That's trolling. Discussing the fights over campaign names which weren't exactly intellectual properties, the double speech when Wassesman declared exactly words like Estraguet.

if indeed she has presidential aspirations, there is a risk tied to her and her political career. Just as there would be to Eric Garcetti in his own political aspirations if a Games in LA proved to be catastrophic for the city. 

And this is again the double sword with Abrahamson. Both candidates may risk their political aspirations as President in SIMILAR TIMELINES, but then from Abrahamson, Garcetti has an easier way than Hidalgo for not other reason than bias and without any political analysis related to French politics, while it's easy way for an unknown like Garcetti to bring the Presidential. Hence the criticism over that letter, because it doesn't have any fundamental point of analysis beyond wishes.

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I mean, in my counter-arguments I didn't call you with slurs. The worst thing I call you is troll. Even in that sense, I didn't get below your level to defend myself. You can accuse me for my sarcasm or even for a bitter tongue, but at least attack me on the same way and not going below level. Anyway, I will expect a classic child response because you won't read.

And this is perhaps the problem, when people counter argument and you have zero rational thoughts for debate, you start insulting. And this is for others (Like baron, Sir Rols) who do similar actions. But then, it's clear bicotomy for your world. You only posted information related to anything YOU LIKE (Wonderful LA / Terrible Paris) without ever reading the proper link. And I don't need evidences in this post because they are everywhere. 

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