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^Not if L.A. was to get the 2028 "consolation prize"! :P And with Budapest being the latest one skating on thin ice, I can see the IOC pondering real hard about a double-award in Lima if the Hungarians ultimately withdraw, too. And if not, then I will get my popcorn & watch you & tRuffmp go at between "New" Toronto & "New" L.A. for 2028. Man, that would be quite a show! :lol:

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10 minutes ago, RuFF said:

Right now things are looking like doom in LA but come 90 days the executive order will be nearing its end and on the other side of the Atlantic another election will be producing results that promise to be just as much a blow as a Trump inauguration. It's not over till it's over. 

 

 

If you mean the French election, I don't see Le Pen winning. Even if she did, at least she's smart:D

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Since Le Pen is female, I'm surprised that you even think that she could win, considering how anti-woman you are. But then again, it's most likely your double-standard L.A. cheerleading glasses thaf you're seeing that through.

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7 minutes ago, FYI said:

Since Le Pen is female, I'm surprised that you even think that she could win, considering how anti-woman you are. But then again, it's most likely your double-standard L.A. cheerleading glasses thaf you're seeing that through.

What the hell are you talking about? I meant what I say. She has a Trump-lite view on immigration but she's smarter than him. That's what I say. Anti-Woman? Slow down there cowboy, save that for your president who's going after abortion rights in your country

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29 minutes ago, RuFF said:

Right now things are looking like doom in LA but come 90 days the executive order will be nearing its end and on the other side of the Atlantic another election will be producing results that promise to be just as much a blow as a Trump inauguration. It's not over till it's over. 

 

 

So let me get this right - are you HOPING for a fascist government in France so LA looks better? Damn the world, as long as LA 24 is on track?

Edited by Sir Rols
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3 minutes ago, Sir Rols said:

So let me get this right - are you HOPING for a fascist government in France so LA looks better? Damn the world, as long as LA 24 is on track?

That's already how American politicians views the world. Just ask American Ambassadors telling the UN that the USA will be taking names of whoever doesn't support them. Better take down all of the planet's name because only USA and Israel kept voting for the Cuban Embargo and the whole world condemns Israel building Settlements on occupied lands...except the USA and Israel themselves...

Oh well

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17 minutes ago, Ansem said:

What the hell are you talking about? I meant what I say. She has a Trump-lite view on immigration but she's smarter than him. That's what I say. Anti-Woman? Slow down there cowboy, save that for your president who's going after abortion rights in your country

In case you didn't notice, our two posts were less than three minutes apart. So it wasn't really directed at you. It was meant for tRuffmp. Plus, I also talked about L.A. cheerleading glasses. So that right there should've given the indication that my post was not meant for you at all. So may I suggest next time, before getting your panties in a bunch, to correctly decipher what exactly you're reading. Thanks.

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21 minutes ago, Sir Rols said:

So let me get this right - are you HOPING for a fascist government in France so LA looks better? Damn the world, as long as LA 24 is on track?

Considering the source, why does this seem so surprising?! It's been their M.O. since day one on this site!

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29 minutes ago, baron-pierreIV said:

Should Angelenos and Parisians flood to Budapest to participate in the referendum? 

Nah.  Probably doesn't change the odds much if Budapest drops out, less anyone thinks they have a decent shot at winning

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43 minutes ago, RuFF said:

Is that what you got from what I said? Truthfully, nobody thought Trump would actually win, just like nobody thought that Brexit would actually happen. That isn't me hoping and clearly you see Le Pen as negatively as Americans see Trump, but in the world, right now, things are happening like that. Sure, you and others don't think she'll win, but I, for one, have seen crazier things such as Trump going bat **** crazy and becoming the President of the United States. So no, I'm not hoping anything bad for France, but at this point it wouldn't surprise me.

Just tell me then - what will be your reaction if Le Pen loses? Will you be happy for France and the world? Or down that the Trump factor for LA wasn't neutralised? Would you be happy for LA if she won? Or would you be sad for France or the world? Just interested.

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Bannon just said this was "only the begining"

 

Even if Trump is somehow relieved of his duties, the damage he and his cabinet have made to the American image is inexcusable, unforgivable, and irreperable.

There is no easy "Hail Mary" for LA at this point.

Their bid is being shot out of the sky by friendly fire.

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The only silver lining in all this is how the American public from all walks of life immediately came out to defend and protect their Muslim brothers and sisters. Making sure all detainees were let go.

The people at the airports? THAT is the real America, those are the kind of people that would welcome the world to an LA games.

Sadly, we are all on damage control just one week into his presidency.

 

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1 hour ago, RuFF said:

Is that what you got from what I said? Truthfully, nobody thought Trump would actually win, just like nobody thought that Brexit would actually happen. That isn't me hoping and clearly you see Le Pen as negatively as Americans see Trump, but in the world, right now, things are happening like that. Sure, you and others don't think she'll win, but I, for one, have seen crazier things such as Trump going bat **** crazy and becoming the President of the United States. So no, I'm not hoping anything bad for France, but at this point it wouldn't surprise me.

And I also mentioned again, Brexit was expected for one way or another if going for the impartial approach. And then you have the examples of Austria rejecting a extreme-right wing politician as president. Sure, disaster can happen, but this attitude is simple cinical.

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You know what, people? There's a bigger (orange) fish to fry these days than LA 2024. No sane IOC member (if there are any) will want to hand their precious good to the man who'd immediately make this HIS victory, and even considering he may well be out of office by 2024.

However: As much as I think the RuFF guy is annoying, he's got it right with Le Pen: It is unthinkable that she wins in France, but many things were unthinkable a few months ago and they happened.

The IOC could be faced with three fascist leaders in Lima. That's the real horror from an Olympic perspective, but even worse when you look at the situation of the world as such.

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1 hour ago, JesseSaenz said:

The only silver lining in all this is how the American public from all walks of life immediately came out to defend and protect their Muslim brothers and sisters. Making sure all detainees were let go.

The people at the airports? THAT is the real America, those are the kind of people that would welcome the world to an LA games.

Sadly, we are all on damage control just one week into his presidency.

 

 

Uhmmm...you're looking at the major ports of entry.  You're not looking at Dubuque or Pittsburgh or Sheboygan.  Unfortunately, that's where the REAL America is.  Or at least the America that held sway in Nov 2016.  The concentration of liberal America in the metro areas did NOT help any.  

This is just going to get worse.  It's just incredible how that bunch of psychos got in there.  

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1 hour ago, baron-pierreIV said:

Uhmmm...you're looking at the major ports of entry.  You're not looking at Dubuque or Pittsburgh or Sheboygan.  Unfortunately, that's where the REAL America is.  Or at least the America that held sway in Nov 2016.  The concentration of liberal America in the metro areas did NOT help any.  

This is just going to get worse.  It's just incredible how that bunch of psychos got in there.  

Its Lunacy

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12 minutes ago, RuFF said:

I refer you to the selection of 2008, 2014, 2022. There is an incredible amount of precedent of the IOC having to choose from and in fact choosing hosts in countries where anybody could make the argument of some sort of crappy government, it just so happens that 2024 is the US's turn, and possibly france's as well. There is nothing pie in the sky here.

Re: 2008..

Part of the hope of awarding an Olympics to China was that it would foster some change within their government and make it at least a little more free and open (not to mention their promises to clean up the air in and around Beijing).  Unfortunately, many of those changes never happened and others were temporary fixes essentially there to make it seem like China was giving an effort..  China falls short on Olympic promises, critics say

That was truly a case of hoping that the Olympics would make China better.  When they awarded Sochi for 2014 (which was a much closer vote), I don't think they had similar expectations.  And obviously 2022 was a choice between a giant douche and a turd sandwich.

So what of 2024?  The problem with the timing is that even though this Olympics is 7 days down the road, it's likely that the effects of the Trump administration are still going to be felt.  Yes, we'll be past this temporary travel ban, but the damage is still done because Trump has made it clear what type of leader he is and that may resonate with IOC voters.  Is it possible we may see something in France with their elections in a few months?  Absolutely.  And if that happens, the narrative may change.  But again, at this point, that remains an "if."  Trump happened and a lot of everyone's worst fears about what his presidency would lead to are already starting to come to pass.

I know I say this a lot, but it applies here.. a lot can and will happen before the IOC votes in September.  We're reacting to all this now because it's very fresh news.  As we do here, we're constantly updating and evaluating the race because, well, that's what we do here.  The IOC only votes once.  They'll take everything into account then and who knows what will have happened politically on all fronts by then.  I don't think it's a constant dialog for them like we view it here.

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1 hour ago, RuFF said:

There is an incredible amount of precedent of the IOC having to choose from and in fact choosing hosts in countries where anybody could make the argument of some sort of crappy government

There's a difference between being a crappy government and pissing off the majority of the planet. Just saying

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1 hour ago, RuFF said:

I disagree here again but the REAL America spoke. As a whole it spoke and the concept that it's all doom is not really something to subscribe to. The US has lessons to learn about themselves and while it may not be easy, I'd wager that it's necessary. 

Your executive branch is being told to ignore the judiciary on Trump's and Banon's orders (see border agents ignoring courts). This is the kind of things places like Zimbabwe are famous for!

Religious tests are being applied at your borders (Jews and Christians from banned countries are now apparently exempt). Science committees are subject to political interference and defunding with climate change deniers and anti-vaxxers being given prominent posts (hello tin foil hat, bye bye herd immunity). Men are deciding what women can do with their bodies in a grim show of sexism in the oval office. Orders are being drawn up to allow government employees to not handle cases involving LGBT people if it goes against their "beliefs".

The attack on Muslims in Canada yesterday was used as an example of why banning Muslims is the right policy in an up yours to the victims. What fucking clowns you now have in charge!! :wacko:

What lessons are being "learned" here RuFF, other than how easy it is to dismantle checks and balances which were previously part and parcel of what made America a democracy, rather than the banana republic it is (quickly) turning into?

None of this is "necessary", as you claim, unless you think giving into Christian fundamentalism and demagoguery is "necessary". Fucking hell. You're trying to be reasonable about things which are not in any way based in reason.

Incidentally, before you ask, I haven't signed the petition (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38814346) which is nearing 2 million signatures now, but I intend to be part of the 'welcoming committee' if Trump comes here.

Edited by Rob.
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21 minutes ago, RuFF said:

Right, but examine this. You think we should flip democracy on its back because you don't agree with the President and his policies. That is just as much a threat to our society as anything you disagree with Trump on. Think about it. 

I may not agree with him but I believe in this system. 

But again, there's nothing new here. It's 2008 all over again except the doom and gloom is coming from the opposite party. Just as republicans held strong beliefs that Obama was a socialist and would ruin America, Democrats are tripping on Trump. By your very logic you think Republicans should have ejected Obama from the White House. I'm sorry pal, but I don't agree with you one bit. It flies in the face of what it means to be an American. 

Tea partyers didn't like a black President. That was the be all and end all. And the racist cunt Donald Trump encouraged them with his birtherism and the media egged him on and gave him a platform despite a complete lack of evidence. Is this the "system" you believe in because it looks broken from here! Just give the man with the loudest voice and the most money a platform, **** fact checking!!

Obama didn't take away any of the rights of those who didn't like him in the White House. So, I'm sorry, comparing people who can't enter the country because of their religion, or women who are having reproductive rights taken away, or gay people worried about religious liberty bills rearing their head again, or scientists being treated as suspicious - all of whom have REAL reasons to worry - to the Tea Party meltdown about a black "socialist" being in power is fucking insane. There is no way in good conscious anyone can compare this situation to 2008.

Don't pretend democracy is just about votes either, it isn't. Google Tyranny of the Majority (although I'm not even sure that's relevant anymore, the birther toad's approval ratings are now at -57 after a week in charge!!)

Edited by Rob.
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3 minutes ago, Rob. said:

Tea partyers didn't like a black President. That was the be all and end all. And the racist cunt Donald Trump encouraged them with his birtherism. Obama didn't take away any of their rights and is hardly a socialist by any measure (this is where fake news started really).

I'm sorry, comparing people who can't enter the country because of their religion, or women who are having reproductive rights taken away to the Tea Party is fucking insane.

Don't pretend democracy is just about votes, it isn't. Google Tyranny of the Majority.

Reminds me of something my political science teacher used to tell us:

Dictatorship=Shut up, I'm in charge!

Democracy=Complain all you want, I'm in charge!

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35 minutes ago, RuFF said:

Right, but examine this. You think we should flip democracy on its back because you don't agree with the President and his policies. That is just as much a threat to our society as anything you disagree with Trump on. Think about it. 

I may not agree with him but I believe in this system. 

But again, there's nothing new here. It's 2008 all over again except the doom and gloom is coming from the opposite party. Just as republicans held strong beliefs that Obama was a socialist and would ruin America, Democrats are tripping on Trump. By your very logic you think Republicans should have ejected Obama from the White House. I'm sorry pal, but I don't agree with you one bit. It flies in the face of what it means to be an American. 

7 minutes ago, RuFF said:

You're obviously very passioned about your position, and I agree that there are racists in america, which would satisfy my argument that America is more than what Jesse said, it's also racist. I also agree that discrimination against religion and gender is not appropriate, but these are long issues in the world and United States. If anything this time is causing us as a society to reflect on these issues with many being compelled to rise up, but that's what democracy is. You don't fight something you dislike by shredding democracy under the pretense that they are shredding democracy. Label it as you please but just as people stand up for injustices, there are going to be people who stand up for the system of our society. I don't view it as an end all, instead I view it as a part of the process. Alas, you, Jesse and anybody who would like is allowed to take a position, you just might end up with disappointing results if your position is lacking or the larger picture.

Ansem beat me to it, but this "system" you speak of is starting to feel less like democracy and more like a dictatorship.  We're less than 2 weeks into this Trump presidency and good for him that he's following through on some of his campaign promises, but it's a little scary how swiftly and effortlessly he wants to shove anyone out of his way that opposes him.  I get that he won a free and fair election (even though he did NOT have the most total votes.. I'm not complaining about that, I get the system that's in place, but it's worth noting), but this is not 2008 when the right expected doom and gloom.  Because what exactly did Obama do, let alone in the early days of his first term, that is comparable to what Trump is doing here?  For all the fears about Obama (and I agree with Rob that the Republicans fed into that in order to gain support for their own party), was his presidency as bad as those who opposed him had imagined?  Or is that just what they're trying to convince themselves of so their candidate now looks better by comparison.  And full disclosure here.. I voted for McCain and for Romney.  Not because of any animosity towards Obama, but because I thought McCain/Romney would be better for the job.  But I didn't vote for Trump, and it's certainly not because I was any sort of fan of Clinton.

You talk about not wanting to shed democracy, but that feels like what Trump is doing here.  The point of a democracy is that he's supposed to serve the people.  He can spin this however he wants that he's trying to protect American lives, but I'm not sure I buy that.  He has completely changed the course of this country and it says something that the rest of the world is starting to take notice.

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