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Has The 2020 Race Become a Proper, Interesting, Contest?


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I know there's long been a strong feeling here that this has been a boring race, but is it just me, or this race becoming more intriguing than many of us thought? And also, has there ever been a bid race that has turned and been influenced by outside events in the political and social sphere than this one?

Just a few months ago, I think it was generally accepted that this race was shaping up as “Can Tokyo beat Istanbul?”. Then we had the Japanese governor Inose's gaff, and it looked like Istanbul was cruising … until the Turks started to demonstrate and Erdogan decided to come down hard. Suddenly, Istanbul's looking shaky at best.

Then the Brazilians decided to get in on the act and start the world's media commentators spruiking their views on the staggering costs of big events. Just the sort of thing the Madrid campaigners would have ben happy to start seeing. And this coincided with the bid presentations at Lausanne last month, where by all accounts Prince Felipe and the team must have put on an unusually good show, because since then there's been a noticeable shift in commentary in the usual Olympic new sources with Madrid suddenly being taken seriously. Now I see insidetherings is talking about political scandals in Spain potentially derailing that momentum. Roller coaster ride or what?

I think it's still too early to start making firm predictions – and who'd want to anyway, considering how the fortunes of all three bidders have been see-sawing? But at this stage, I'm thinking more and more Madrid's looking good to win. I would never have even entertained the idea a few months ago (and believe me, I tried, but just thought they had too many negatives against them).

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An opinion piece which brings up Turkey's doping issues but doesn't once mention Fuentes (!!), which mentions Turkey's protests but forgets about civil unrest in Spain. Also, its use of Barcelona as

Emre, all of those things have been talked about on this forum. There are threads on BOTH the Spanish and Turkish doping cases (I know, I started them both), there was a thread on Fukushima, there has

Here are two bigger question: 1. When will the Expo 2020 winner be named? Izmir winning or losing BEFORE September 7 could have an impact on Istanbul winning or losing Olympic Games 2020. ANd 2.

I've had similar thoughts lately. There's a sense in which I agree and a sense in which I disagree.

The outcome of the 2020 race is less certain at this point than many expected it to be. In that sense, perhaps it is more interesting.

However, to be totally honest, I don't really care who wins at this point. I am not particularly excited about any of the candidates. None of them has succeeded in inspiring me. I was inspired by London, Chicago and Rio. I wanted to be inspired by one of these three (probably Istanbul, especially), but I feel somewhat let down.

So yes, the race is uncertain, but it's not especially exciting, at least not to me.

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However, to be totally honest, I don't really care who wins at this point. I am not particularly excited about any of the candidates. None of them has succeeded in inspiring me. I was inspired by London, Chicago and Rio. I wanted to be inspired by one of these three (probably Istanbul, especially), but I feel somewhat let down.

Oh, In do get you on that. I think I'm a bit the same - Istanbul was the one that would probably be the "most exciting" to me (which probably coloured a lot of my earlier thoughts on the race). But it's just got to the point with them where it's hard maintain much confidence in their ability to win. I've had a softer spot for Tokyo than many others here, but i do see the point that it's hard to get too excited about a "been there" bid that seems to be struggling to find a 'compelling" narrative. And Madrid? Well, let's just say it's not who I'd vote for if I was in the position to do so and I find a lot of their messages are infuriatingly contradictory.

I guess I'm just surprised that it's such a wide open race at this stage. And even more surprised that I'm starting to think Madrid is the one with the momentum. And it all seems to be turning more on outside political events than previous races.

And in some ways, not being as emotionally engaged with any of the bidders adds to the interest for me. Makes it more absorbing by dispassionately watching the strategies and turns unfold ... IMO.

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I'm not sure I agree with either of you.

If you look at the problem through the eyes of the ioc, choosing Madrid, so soon after Barcelona and so soon after London, would see them accused of being too Euro-centric. European games for Europeans cities chosen by Europeans if you will! It's an accusation they are doing their best to dispel.

Tokyo? Been there and done that. It's the safe option. But then again, the ioc like to see themselves as risk takers and path finders. So a game there so soon after 1964 would only show the ioc up as unimaginative, unadventurous and out of touch. It's a no no.

Istanbul on the other hand has never seen the games. Demonstrations? So what? It hasn't stopped the ioc choosing Beijing or Sochi, has it?. On the contrary, Erdogan has shown himself as a man of steel (or iron if you prefer). Someone who gets things done. To the ioc putting down the demonstrations the way he has is "A-Good-Thing". He will ensure that security is tight. He cuts a few corners. So what? It's no like it's never been seen elsewhere, is it? For them he's a safe bet.

My money's on Istanbul.

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I believe that the IOC has now reached the stage where they are now almost desperate to hold the Games in Africa ASAP. As Istanbul 2020 would probably knock both Europe & Asia out of 2024. For a large number of reasons, I don't think they will go to the USA for a while, South America is out due to Rio, Australia could bid but 24 years isn't long enough. I think Toronto will bid for 2024, & if they do, they would be the only city that could upset Africa's chances if Istanbul gets 2020. So I think it will be Rio 16, Istanbul 20, Durban 24, & an established Euro city (Paris?) 28.

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These arguments about Istanbul made sense 2 months ago before the protests and the massive doping scandal. Now, I don't think the IOC can have enough confidence that if they award the Games to Istanbul, the political situation will remain stable enough in Turkey (and neighboring countries) over the next 7 years for the Games to actually take place. I'm sure a fair number of members will still vote for Istanbul in the first round, but it won't be enough to win.

If I were putting money down on a city right now, I'd bet on Madrid. Madrid is likely to have the best political game, and I think enough votes are up for grabs due to Istanbul's collapse that Madrid will be able to pull out a victory in the second round.

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Imagine if UEFA hadn't come up with their pan-Europe-Euros for 2020 and Turkey was still bidding for that as well? Could you imagine how difficult their bid message would be if they had the protests and a Euro 2020 bid undermining their efforts?!

But yes, I sort of agree that this race is getting more interesting, even if it is for the wrong reasons. There's almost been a sense of morbid fascination surrounding this race.

If 2012 was a race of glamour cities with not much in it, 2016 was a one-horse race which so many of misjudged to be a tight affair, then it seems 2020 is a race of attrition to see who can survive to the end with the least self-inflicted wounds....doddery old man Tokyo vs broke and hungry Madrid vs battle scarred Istanbul. All trying to drag themselves over the finish line first.

Euro 2020, Fuentes, Turkey's doping scandal, mishandling of protests in Istanbul, foot-in-mouth disease hitting Tokyo, Fukushima, Madrid's economy, empty stadiums for Euro U20s in Turkey....what's next?!

I'm still of the opinion, however, that whilst favourites often lose, outside bets don't often win. So despite everything I don't think Madrid will get it, despite the wind blowing a little more in their favour recently.

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An opinion piece which brings up Turkey's doping issues but doesn't once mention Fuentes (!!), which mentions Turkey's protests but forgets about civil unrest in Spain.

Also, its use of Barcelona as a case study is interesting. It derides Istanbul for wanting to regenerate their city using the Games whilst at the same time holding Barcelona (a city which did exactly that) up as an apparent plus point for.....Madrid. Eh? How does that work then?! It also says going back to Japan would "lack novelty" whilst two paragraphs later it doesn't make the same connection between Barcelona and Madrid, a connection the author only sees as a positive.

Come on, that's a nice piece in its way which sums up how Madrid positions itself, but it's hardly an objective "analysis".

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An opinion piece which brings up Turkey's doping issues but doesn't once mention Fuentes (!!), which mentions Turkey's protests but forgets about civil unrest in Spain.

Also, its use of Barcelona as a case study is interesting. It derides Istanbul for wanting to regenerate their city using the Games whilst at the same time holding Barcelona (a city which did exactly that) up as an apparent plus point for.....Madrid. Eh? How does that work then?! It also says going back to Japan would "lack novelty" whilst two paragraphs later it doesn't make the same connection between Barcelona and Madrid, a connection the author only sees as a positive.

Come on, that's a nice piece in its way which sums up how Madrid positions itself, but it's hardly an objective "analysis".

I agree with you, however is the 'first' time i see in non-spanish media an article 'supporting' Madrid

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:):( I agree with the sentiment here...At the start of the year I was looking forward to Istanbul's ride to the top at long last...I only ever considered it a Tokyo v Istanbul race. Madrid looked weighed down by Spain's financial difficulties (although I wonder what - considering CAF is building all of Auckland's new metro trains).

I'm still hoping for Istanbul to cross the line as the final piece of the IOC's dream for a predominantly Muslim nation to host in that region...But as proven, you just can't paint over the cracks and blood and hope for the best.

Madrid still looks like the third runner in this giving that the EU could prop it up. Tokyo stands out as the safe hands...flippant comment from a grizzly old samurai aside with the freshly rebuilt Olympic stadium getting a RWC workout a year before.

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Here are two bigger question:

1. When will the Expo 2020 winner be named? Izmir winning or losing BEFORE September 7 could have an impact on Istanbul winning or losing Olympic Games 2020. ANd

2. If Istanbul loses, can Turkey sue the IOC for telling them to drop Euro 2020 for their own agenda but then fail to deliver the OGs?? I'd like to see that reach the Int'l Court of Justice? He...he...snicker....snicker...

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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Well If Istanbul loses and Turkey decides to sue the IOC for an event that was never guaranteed to be given to them as in the end it is just 100 or so people voting secretly, then they would as well be kissing the Olympic Games good bye for good, or maybe for a good few decades. I highly doubt that Turkey would be willing to pay that kind of price...

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doddery old man Tokyo vs broke and hungry Madrid vs battle scarred Istanbul. All trying to drag themselves over the finish line first.

Lmfao - I like this analogy.

An opinion piece which brings up Turkey's doping issues but doesn't once mention Fuentes (!!), which mentions Turkey's protests but forgets about civil unrest in Spain.

Exactly, thank you. It's always so interesting that the people that try & use Istanbul's arguments against them can also be applied to Madrid. Operation Puerto, anyone.

Also, its use of Barcelona as a case study is interesting. It derides Istanbul for wanting to regenerate their city using the Games whilst at the same time holding Barcelona (a city which did exactly that) up as an apparent plus point for.....Madrid. Eh? How does that work then?! It also says going back to Japan would "lack novelty" whilst two paragraphs later it doesn't make the same connection between Barcelona and Madrid, a connection the author only sees as a positive.

The contradictions never cease, do they. I love also how the article talks about Turkey's "overestimated" economy, while at the same time just boasting about Spain's crippled one & how the Games to them would be an "uplift". How the recent protests in Brazil over Olympic spending wouldn't be any good for Istanbul, while no peep that Spain's own unrest over austerity couldn't come back to bite them in the a$s if the very underestimated $1.9 Billion budget somehow doubled (which even the writer admits), but only points out how even that would still come in "cheaper than Athens, Beijing & London. But would the Spaniards view it the same way, when/if the govenment keeps making cuts but the Olympic budget is starting to balloon, which it usually does.

Another favorite line of mine: "And Tokyo is less of an up-&-coming Metropolis & more of an already established player in the world of Sport". Ummmm, can't we say that of London, too. And even Madrid! :blink:

Come on, that's a nice piece in its way which sums up how Madrid positions itself, but it's hardly an objective "analysis".

110% agree!

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I agree with you, however is the 'first' time i see in non-spanish media an article 'supporting' Madrid

Perhaps the writer of the piece has some type of personal connection to Madrid or Spain of some sort. But while I really don't even want to bother acknowledging you again, I can't help but to cringe when I read this post here.

So you "agree" with Rob, yet when I made those same points over in the Madrid forum, all you (& your alias cohorts) just chastisized, attacked & crucified me like the Spanish Inquisition. Making me out like the villain that I somehow "criticize & despise Madrid", when that is NOT the case whatsoever. What I criticize & despise is the bid teams (& YOUR unwarranted accusations of non-objectiveness) contradictions, double standards & convienent arguments which could or could not be applied to Tokyo & Istanbul as well. Only talking about how the Olympics would be good for Spain & Madrid rather than the other way around.

Even this piece by this writer talks about "the Madrid bid is not about 'dreams' bcuz they have already built them". So what exactly, is it about then? "Less risk", like the article suggest? Aren't hosting the Olympic Games "a dream" to virtually most who bid for them? it's arguments like these that I find so disingenuous that its not even funny. Some people, & even this article, talk about how Tokyo "lacks novelty", yet we could easily say the same about Madrid.

I also love how the article talks about Japan's two Winter Olympic Games that they've hosted & try to use them against Tokyo, too. Well, like I've said before, Spain should focus on a Winter Olympic bid instead, their arguments in that aspect would hold so much more water then. But anyway, I digress now. No doubt you'll just come back with more of your seething, disparaging, & chastizing blather.

Well If Istanbul loses and Turkey decides to sue the IOC for an event that was never guaranteed to be given to them as in the end it is just 100 or so people voting secretly, then they would as well be kissing the Olympic Games good bye for good, or maybe for a good few decades. I highly doubt that Turkey would be willing to pay that kind of price...

Yeah, but most have seen 2020 as Istanbul's best chance to get the OIympic Games. If they can't win now, then how could they win in the next couple of cycles where it's expected to be even more competitive.

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its becoming a habbit to share everything about Turkey and Istanbul here...

the home land of modern olympics ban to build minarets in the country or take under arrest who said ottoman time armenian problem is not a genocide, but its a full democracy? its absurd as to arrest press

spanish revolts but turkish one is the problem,

china and japan was nearly at war and there was a terrifying nuclear disaster, but security is a problem in turkey cause of syria

"“Good or Bad Koreans: Kill them All" protests in Tokyo, but Turkey suffers about kurdish ethnicity at the exact time for a solution.

japanese antreanur kicks the athletes and another doping scandal in spain ( also in athletics world) but turkish one just under the spots which is a gossib as IAAF said.

its getting boring to show just Turkey and Istanbul as the bad boy in the class...

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Emre, all of those things have been talked about on this forum. There are threads on BOTH the Spanish and Turkish doping cases (I know, I started them both), there was a thread on Fukushima, there has been non-stop talk about Spain's economy and protests that go with it. The homeland of the Olympics isn't in this bid race, maybe that's why its problems aren't being discussed.

Stop being so paranoid....I normally enjoy your posts here...

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Perhaps the writer of the piece has some type of personal connection to Madrid or Spain of some sort. But while I really don't even want to bother acknowledging you again, I can't help but to cringe when I read this post here.

So you "agree" with Rob, yet when I made those same points over in the Madrid forum, all you (& your alias cohorts) just chastisized, attacked & crucified me like the Spanish Inquisition. Making me out like the villain that I somehow "criticize & despise Madrid", when that is NOT the case whatsoever. What I criticize & despise is the bid teams (& YOUR unwarranted accusations of non-objectiveness) contradictions, double standards & convienent arguments which could or could not be applied to Tokyo & Istanbul as well. Only talking about how the Olympics would be good for Spain & Madrid rather than the other way around.

Even this piece by this writer talks about "the Madrid bid is not about 'dreams' bcuz they have already built them". So what exactly, is it about then? "Less risk", like the article suggest? Aren't hosting the Olympic Games "a dream" to virtually most who bid for them? it's arguments like these that I find so disingenuous that its not even funny. Some people, & even this article, talk about how Tokyo "lacks novelty", yet we could easily say the same about Madrid.

I also love how the article talks about Japan's two Winter Olympic Games that they've hosted & try to use them against Tokyo, too. Well, like I've said before, Spain should focus on a Winter Olympic bid instead, their arguments in that aspect would hold so much more water then. But anyway, I digress now. No doubt you'll just come back with more of your seething, disparaging, & chastizing blather.

Yeah, but most have seen 2020 as Istanbul's best chance to get the OIympic Games. If they can't win now, then how could they win in the next couple of cycles where it's expected to be even more competitive.

I have just read the first lines of your comments, its enough. I am 'amarillo' an eventhough you insist i don't have other alias here. If i agree what the other posted is because it's truth, it has arguments, i can see that the article talks about protests in Instanbul and not in Madrid, it says that tokyo hosted the olympics twice, and does not mention barcelona in this sense.

However you talk with out arguments. You have some mistic adversion towards Madrid, When i told you that i wouldn't like you to come to madrid yo said... ' Oh in that case Madrid shouldnt bid for the Games' is that logical? You are always like that, you just critisice, thats what i don't like about you. ( and the you say you are objective) lol

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Turks complaining of bias! Spaniards complaining of bias! Japanese still avoiding English speaking websites in droves ... we must be getting close to decision time.

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