Fall of a Leader

[Olympic Fan Darcy]

Gillard had it in for her right from the moment she stabbed Rudd in the back, it was and still is a dirty maneuver...She had far too many enemies because of this, inside parliament as well as nationwide.

Bloody hell. Rudd was an awful weak PM. Did next to nothing for this country. Gillard did much more in her time as PM. He was weak. More a celebrity then a politician. If it's counted as a knifing then Rudd knifed her last night, Abbott knifed Turnbull aswell. Don't forget that. Every lib seems to be on there high horse and forget Abbott. God i loathe him.

Let me just remind you of our two potential leaders

Lib:

Labor:

[Mainad]

MT was knocked out over the 'NO NO NO' keep us out of Europe thing...and most of her cabnet were Europhiles by then. Geoffrey Howe's devastating resignation speech set off the leadership coup that Micheal Hesletine was waiting for. The Conservatives would've still won the 1992 election with her, in fact she would've dealt to Saddam Hussein there and then and called the election in 1991...and then stepped down as she was planning. She was popular as ever with the electorate and all those wanting her job couldn't stand it.

Gillard had it in for her right from the moment she stabbed Rudd in the back, it was and still is a dirty maneuver...She had far too many enemies because of this, inside parliament as well as nationwide.

It wasn't just the Europe issue that did for Thatcher although that was the immediate catalyst. There was also the issue of the poll tax which was widely unpopular and causing mass demonstrations throughout Britain. Even the Conservative party realised it was a non-winner but Thatcher stubbornly refused to compromise or see reality about it. By 1990, she had become widely unpopular throughout the country and it was her refusal to compromise or understand the extent of public opposition to her proposed policies that finally made her party turn against her. They realised that they probably couldn't win another election with her as leader.

As for Gillard stabbing Rudd in the back...again there are certain parallels with Thatcher who was persuaded to challenge her predecessor, Edward Heath, for the leadership of the Conservative Party and unexpectedly won in a close vote. Heath never bothered to hide his loathing for her and constantly criticised her throughout her years in office. However, unlike Rudd, there was never any prospect of Heath regaining the party leadership.

[Alexjc]

... There was also the issue of the poll tax which was widely unpopular and causing mass demonstrations throughout Britain. Even the Conservative party realised it was a non-winner but Thatcher stubbornly refused to compromise or see reality about it. By 1990, she had become widely unpopular throughout the country and it was her refusal to compromise or understand the extent of public opposition to her proposed policies that finally made her party turn against her. They realised that they probably couldn't win another election with her as leader...

Ahh yes the "Community Charge"...Even I have to admit the thinking behind it was daft for it's time...although the concept of handing over council control to the community was MT's dream, but no one else got the gyst of it, or her thinking. It was her ultimate weapon to smash that still ingrained leftist Labour control of inflated council costs (for chrissakes there was a guy being paid a then 20k for checking that the public water taps were working in local borough...) and get the private sector in on tendering for works...for the same work at a better price. I remember newly elected NZ PM Jim Bolger say to a reporter who suggested the Poll Tax for NZers, he told her he'd tell everyone where she lived! - and he meant it!

As for what has happened in Aussie...as I said, they are screwed either way for the next four or so years.

[Gold Coast Lions]

Tony Abbott will become the Prime Minster of Australia by December Kevin Rudd may help to win back some few seats which was heading for a lost, Kevin Rudd will be around 50% in the high Season after his 2nd honeymoon reign then he will drop again and he wants an late election so he can be the PM for longer, But the Labor Party can't win this election.

Julia Gillard will go down in history as the worst Prime Minster in Australian history Kevin Rudd is not an leader just an cleb he is an weak leader and he is apart of the reasons why we in a big mess.

I am supporting Tony Abbott as Prime Minster he does not want the green scams with the Carbon Tax and the ETS which is putting up the cost of living and the mining tax will kill the Queensland and Western Australia economy, The public does not want it and we will remember what they did we Australians want illegal immigration to stop by bring back the PS we want stronger defence and we have enough of faceless men and time for a really change of Government by changing the ruling Party,

Go Tony Abbott LNP 2013 Restore Australia.

[Alexjc]

I am supporting Tony Abbott as Prime Minster he does not want the green scams with the Carbon Tax and the ETS which is putting up the cost of living and the mining tax will kill the Queensland and Western Australia economy, The public does not want it and we will remember what they did we Australians want illegal immigration to stop by bring back the PS we want stronger defence and we have enough of faceless men and time for a really change of Government by changing the ruling Party,

Go Tony Abbott LNP 2013 Restore Australia.

He'll get in BUT the fear is can he hold his coalition together? Will there be too much "consensus" to really make is government any more effective than what's falling apart now?

[Olympic Fan Darcy]

I am supporting Tony Abbott as Prime Minster he does not want the green scams with the Carbon Tax and the ETS which is putting up the cost of living and the mining tax will kill the Queensland and Western Australia economy, The public does not want it and we will remember what they did we Australians want illegal immigration to stop by bring back the PS we want stronger defence and we have enough of faceless men and time for a really change of Government by changing the ruling Party,

Go Tony Abbott LNP 2013 Restore Australia.

Seriously? Scam? Labor wants to secure a future for our next generations. Abbott doesn't even believe in climate change! He is so thick and dumb. I can't believe anyone can actually support it. And asylum seekers aren't ilelgal we have signed the UN's refugee convention and are meant to take in these people from war torn countries. It is a disgrace people want to "stop the boats and turn them back" I am disgused to be an Australian. That is so inhumane

[Alexjc]

Pah...Wet Backs are treated better than New Zealanders in Australia...

[Sir Rols]

Pah...Wet Backs are treated better than New Zealanders in Australia...

I promise, if you ever come over to stay, we'll give you equal treatment and put you in a Christmas Island detention block. Wouldn't want you feeling second class.

[Alexjc]

I promise, if you ever come over to stay, we'll give you equal treatment and put you in a Christmas Island detention block. Wouldn't want you feeling second class.

How's the wedding plans going at home Rols?... Oh sorry that's right, they're not....

[Scotguy]

I think that by putting Rudd back in as leader they can kill two birds with one stone.

It is highly likely that the Labor Party will still loose the election and i think they know that. So with Gilliard gone and Rudd sacked after the lost election, it means that they can come back for the next election with a new, fresh leader.

[markun]

I find it hugely problematic that she is being held up by some as a martyr for equality. The misogyny and sexism was inexcusable but this is someone who - for reasons which aren't entirely clear is opposed to marriage equality. And that makes her a hypocrite in my view, she is no hero in the battle for equality.

[baron-pierreIV]

/\/\ Yeah, right, markun. What do u care? U're half a world away.

[Olympic Fan Darcy]

I find it hugely problematic that she is being held up by some as a martyr for equality. The misogyny and sexism was inexcusable but this is someone who - for reasons which aren't entirely clear is opposed to marriage equality. And that makes her a hypocrite in my view, she is no hero in the battle for equality.

Yeah but Julia had more of a chance of changing her opinion than Abbott. Abbotts own sister is a lesbian and he still doesn't support it. He has the christian views down pat, doubt he would ever change his mind. He is a disgrace especially towards the gay rights movement.

Yes Kevin said he "suddenly" changed his mind and support gay marriage now but but I think he was getting ready for the leadership ballot which he knew was coming and did it to win votes both in his party (Penny Wong) and for the Australian public.

[Rob2012]

So does Rudd get free Lions and Ashes tickets now? Cunning plan.

[Alexjc]

Interesting...Another Poll released last night shows Rudd's Labor government claw back into a neck and neck race with Abbott's Liberals...

Could Australia be going to the polls in August?

[Olympic Fan Darcy]

Probably but Abbott will still win. Never have trusted these bloody opinion polls.

[Alexjc]

True...The only Poll that matters is the one on election day...which could be sooner that you think.

Concerning is that Tony Abbott may not have that tighter grip on power that most people outside his party are lead to believe.

Aussie politics over the last 40 years seems to make ours here in NZ bloody boring by comparison.

[runningrings]

Julia Gillard will go down in history as the worst Prime Minster in Australian history Kevin Rudd is not an leader just an cleb he is an weak leader and he is apart of the reasons why we in a big mess.

Can you please explain/outline to me why she is the "worst Prime Minister in Australian history" - go on.

I am supporting Tony Abbott as Prime Minster he does not want the green scams with the Carbon Tax and the ETS which is putting up the cost of living

Green scams? You call the most comprehensive, peer reviewed consensus EVER researched in the environmental science field a scam? I call you crazy, uneducated, and in denial.

and the mining tax will kill the Queensland and Western Australia economy,

Evidence, please? Because it isn't, and it won't. Why shouldn't the mining industry pay a tax? The asking price is a pittance of the botton line. Get a grip. Qld and WA will hit the skids when China does - Australia as a whole will have to reposition, but NSW and Vic. will be far better off than the "new money" states like WA and Qld which have been living in a bubble for the past two decades. What goes up, must come down. It is economics 101. When it does, it will have nothing to do with tax, or whatever political party is in power. Australian politics does not have that kind of power to sway the global economy. WA,in particular, would be the most in trouble, as they've set themselves up as a one trick pony. At least Qld has tourism from the Great Barrier Reef... oh wait.....

The public does not want it and we will remember what they did we Australians want illegal immigration to stop by bring back the PS we want stronger defence and we have enough of faceless men and time for a really change of Government by changing the ruling Party,

This actually makes no sense, whatsoever. Why are the bumbling, right-wing idiots on the Internet always the ones with terrible grammar? You only need to look at the "comments" section on Australian trash tabloid like the Daily Telegraph to see what I mean.

If you're suggesting that people do not support the carbon tax - THEY DO. Most Australians (even the majority of EMPLOYED Coalition voters)support a tax on carbon. Take a look at the recent JWS poll - just 37% support for abolishing carbon tax - even from Coalition supporters.

Go Tony Abbott LNP 2013 Restore Australia.

Restore what, exactly?

How's the wedding plans going at home Rols?... Oh sorry that's right, they're not....

Respect officially lost. This is a nasty, dog low comment.

______

I think what the events of this past week, and the three years before reveal, more than the internal politics of the ALP - is that the current system of government in Australia (constitutional monarchy/Westminster system) simply isn't working out. This is increasingly being recognised on both the left and right sides of politics as the Australian Republic Movement is going to come out swinging after this election. Support is growing, and I'd put money on Australia being a Republic by the end of the decade. It's time.

[Sir Rols]

I think what the events of this past week, and the three years before reveal, more than the internal politics of the ALP - is that the current system of government in Australia (constitutional monarchy/Westminster system) simply isn't working out. This is increasingly being recognised on both the left and right sides of politics as the Australian Republic Movement is going to come out swinging after this election. Support is growing, and I'd put money on Australia being a Republic by the end of the decade. It's time.

Actually, this is the one point of yours I'd disagree with with (I applaud your other sentiments)! If anything, I think the past three years has shown the resilience of our Westminster system. Remember in the immediate wash up of the 2010 hung parliament election. Most (particularly conservative) commentators were confidently predicting “this government won't last till Christmas. We'll be at the polls again within months and Tony will be in the Lodge”. Instead, the government has served its full term, in difficult circumstances, while still managing to pass more, and significant, legislation than any other in the country's history. All despite a conservative opposition that never accepted that the independents “stole” their election “win”, a rabid shock jock-led media who never accepted a woman PM, and a former leader that never accepted his party hated him and dumped him before he could lead them to defeat, and spent the next three years sabotaging his former colleagues so he could get his revenge.

I'm all for a republic – even passionate for it. But I've yet to see a formula that will be accepted by everyone, and I can see the merit to the “if it 'aint broke, don't fix it” argument.

[runningrings]

Actually, this is the one point of yours I'd disagree with with (I applaud your other sentiments)! If anything, I think the past three years has shown the resilience of our Westminster system. Remember in the immediate wash up of the 2010 hung parliament election. Most (particularly conservative) commentators were confidently predicting “this government won't last till Christmas. We'll be at the polls again within months and Tony will be in the Lodge”. Instead, the government has served its full term, in difficult circumstances, while still managing to pass more, and significant, legislation than any other in the country's history. All despite a conservative opposition that never accepted that the independents “stole” their election “win”, a rabid shock jock-led media who never accepted a woman PM, and a former leader that never accepted his party hated him and dumped him before he could lead them to defeat, and spent the next three years sabotaging his former colleagues so he could get his revenge.

I'm all for a republic – even passionate for it. But I've yet to see a formula that will be accepted by everyone, and I can see the merit to the “if it 'aint broke, don't fix it” argument.

But don't you think it is the Westminster system itself that got us into this situation, in the first place? I agree that we've never had tabled a real alternative, or at least an applicable one - that was the noted downfall of the 1999 Republic referendum. I agree, the current Government has displayed immense mettle in navigating the last 3 years of governance. However, I'd like to see a Republic/Australian Presidential system in place, perhaps similar to the U.S. (although ideally not exactly the same) where a party and head of state are elected on election day. While we're at it, I'd also like to see our Senate restructured - although I'd like to see States abolished. Currently the Senate vote of a Tasmania is something like 10 times more powerful than that of a New South Welshman - ridiculous.

[Olympic Fan Darcy]

And yet we are going to have another referendum for becoming a republic but because Abbott will win the election (unfortunately) it won't happen.

[runningrings]

And yet we are going to have another referendum for becoming a republic but because Abbott will win the election (unfortunately) it won't happen.

I wouldn't underestimate the influence of Malcolm Turnbull on both fronts. (with the Coalition and as a vocal supporter of ARM).

[Olympic Fan Darcy]

I wouldn't underestimate the influence of Malcolm Turnbull on both fronts. (with the Coalition and as a vocal supporter of ARM).

I doubt his influence will weight much to be honest. Especially on dictator Abbott. His own sister is gay and yet he still doesn't support same sex marriage. Ridiculous!

[Alexjc]

Respect officially lost. This is a nasty, dog low comment.

______

...But it's alright for Rols to say a racist comment? and anyway BOTH comments were said in jest to each other...as Alexjc v Rols light moments are...

BUT NO, once again Runningrings has a tanty sulk as to prove what a sissy he is on this site.

Always whinging and moaning when one doesn't get their way huh...Look at the so called point to point taking apart Gold Coast Lions comments which he is entitled to have a say...All his doing is expressing an opinion from the opposition, which is perfectly allowable.

Prehaps it is time for a different direction for Australia to take...Maybe Julia Gillard wasn't as popular as many think. When she came to NZ at the start of the year she left an impression on the locals as' Cold and Aloof', backing up what is a worrying trend of anti-Australian sentiment that even our fair and balanced PM is trying to quell.

As for respect lost...Well I never had a lot for GenY'ers such as yourself anyway...everything handed to you on a plate types.

Runningring, you have history of Trolling arguments that become nasty and hypocritical, which is what has now happened here... If you and Rols were trapped in a burning car and I only had time to rescue one of you - it be Rols hands down - there that's your nasty dog, low comment!

[Sir Rols]

Sigh!

Alex, I'd like to know how you construe what I said as racist. I thought I was replying to an outrageously wrong and chip-on-the shoulder post of your own. I'd still really invite you again to consider the reception you'd get on arrival at Sydney or Melbourne or Gold Coast airport with that the boat people are getting on arrival in our detention camps, and then try to claim you're getting the raw end of the stick. About the only thing I think I'd agree with you on about our refugee policy is that its not to our national credit. I think it's to our national shame that its' become such a politically charged issue here as our mainstream politicians try to race each other to play down to the lowest common denominator of our redneck belt.

I didn't really appreciate your rejoinder to my reply, either, but I really try to avoid rising to your bait most of the time because, well, I just don't wanna fight with you. And the last thing 'Id want to do is flare up a trans-Tasman brawl here. I pretty well like all the Kiwis on this board too much to want to trade insults.

But you do love to provoke and niggle then rush to take spluttering offence when someone gives it back to you.

I don't see what you should take offence for at runningring posting a rebuttal of GC Lion. It's what were here for isn't it? To post our opinions or ideas up for, hopefully, validation, but more often, critique and debate. Particularly a political thread. Just as it was fair enough that GC Lion could post a rebuttal to the comments many of us Labor sympathisers here had posted earlier. It's far more in the spirit of good, argued and positive debate on this board than the predictable comment I knew for sure would be posted here the moment last week I heard a leadership spill had been called in Canberra:

AHHHHHHHHHHH HAAAAA HAAAAA!!!


Either which way, Australia's screwed for the next four years!