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2022: A troubling scenario


stryker
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if they're shifting it, Qatar 2022 would happen in Nov-Dec 2022 not in February when the 2022 WOG would happen. So there really wouldn't be any conflict. THey would be ten months apart.

Based on what evidence?

1. If they push it back to then it competes with the qualifying for Euro 2024 which starts in August/September 2022 ... and there is no way that UEFA will accept that nor any of the European federations as they will face releasing players for internationals in season immediately before a major football tournament

The only way to avoid this massive fixture pile up would be to bring the games forward to the first part of 2022.

2. Furthermore it seems foolish to look the play the games in November when average temperatures are 29 - the coolest period is January and February where temperatures are a more manageable 22 - 23 celcius

3. It should also be noted that to avoid massive disruption to European leagues the most obvious time to do this would be during the 'Winter breaks' that some European leagues have such as the Bundesliga (Germany) and Ligue 1 (France). These occur between mid-December and the end of January .... a slide move will take this to within a couple of weeks of any WOG

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But it will run smack into the Winter Games which normally start Feb 7. I suppose if the WC Games started around Jan 3...but that would mean that the 32 teams would be spending Xmas and New Year's already in Qatar. (Teams normally arrive 10-14 days before to acclimate themselves.) And the IOC will not budge for the WC becuze the WOGs are weather-dependent and they've always held on to that Feb 7 - 24 period. Tough that FIFA didn't set their calendar right the first time. That's their problem.

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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But it will run smack into the Winter Games which normally start Feb 7. I suppose if the WC Games started around Jan 3...but that would mean that the 32 teams would be spending Xmas and New Year's already in Qatar. And the IOC will not budge for the WC becuze the WOGs are weather-dependent and they've always held on to that Feb 7 - 24 period. Tough that FIFA didn't set their calendar right the first time.

and FIFA will say 'so what?' - football is worth far more globally than the WOG and sponsors may decide to go with FIFA.

Therefore the IOC MAY look at any southern hemisphere bid

1. the snow season can extend to mid-October which is just before the FIS season starts and the skiers are at the end of winter training so will be fully fit to go

2. the chosen location will have excellent facilities at their location which at the very least will be used as 'training camps' for a majority of athletes out of season so the issue of post games use and legacy could be far less problematic than thought.

3. As 2022 is looking pretty marginal in terms of known contenders, it opens up an entire hemisphere as a future bid contender.

If Qatar goes ahead in Winter, then it will clash with the IOC Winter Games unless these are moving back to October/November

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Well, NZ had better move snappily if they want to get their application in before the deadline later this year. Considering there's no peeps from them, and I doubt the locals would see bidding for the WOGs as a priority as they rebuild from the quake, I'd doubt they'd be able to get a bid going from scratch in the few months left to them.

Edited by Sir Rols
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/\/\ There will be no clash of sponsors. The cold medicines and ski boots that complement and pay for the WOG telecasts will not advertise in the one-sport WC. So it's OK to uproot the winter sports federations but NOT to upset the Football leagues?? Tell that to the ISU and the ski federations.

The IOC is NOT going to blink. The IOC is not going to change the WOG calendar for ANOTHEr event. It's FIFA's mess; they have to find a way out.

U're whistling Dixie if u think the WOGs will budge.

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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/\/\ There will be no clash of sponsors. The cold medicines and ski boots that complement and pay for the WOG telecasts will not advertise in the one-sport WC. So it's OK to uproot the winter sports federations but NOT to upset the Football leagues?? Tell that to the ISU and the ski federations.

The IOC is NOT going to blink. The IOC is not going to change the WOG calendar for ANOTHEr event. It's FIFA's mess; they have to find a way out.

U're whistling Dixie if u think the WOGs will budge.

What??

Those amounts are puny .... it is the global corporations like VISA, Audi, Samsung etc where the real sponsorship money comes from including the TV companies bidding for rights who will want to attract large corporate advertisers, not cold remedy and ski boot manufacturers

Well, NZ had better move snappily if they want to get their application in before the deadline later this year. Considering there's no peeps from them, and I doubt the locals would see bidding for the WOGs as a priority as they rebuild from the quake, I'd doubt they'd be able to get a bid going from scratch in the few months left to them.

Well at the moment it looks like Almaty 2022

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The likely dates for the 2022 Winter Olympics are February 11-27. The World Cup could potentially begin on January 5th or 6th, with the final on Sunday, February 6th. February 6th would be Super Bowl Sunday, though, so that would be a huge potential conflict as well. It will be interesting to see how much pressure Fox Sports can exert on FIFA to keep the World Cup in the summer, as a January or November-December World Cup conflicts directly with the NFL, which is a far more valuable property for Fox.

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What??

Those amounts are puny .... it is the global corporations like VISA, Audi, Samsung etc where the real sponsorship money comes from including the TV companies bidding for rights who will want to attract large corporate advertisers, not cold remedy and ski boot manufacturers

I cant believe HOW PEDANTIC and literal you guys are. Those are MERE examples. Samsung, VISA, Coke -- their $80 million that goes to the IOC is NOT used for direct advertising. That goes to the IOC's projects. NBC which pretty much bankrolls the Olympics, makes its $$$ from the second and 3rd tier, mostly consumer goods sponsors (FOR EXAMPLE -- there is that big enough for you?? .. :rolleyes: Home Depot, Procter & Gamble, SC Johnson, pharmaceutical cos., Hollywood films, etc., etc.) who buy time to reach certain consumer markets. How do you think NBC (CBS, ABC and the networks) make money and stay live?? From the smaller companies who sells millions of products. Those are what PROP NBC's telecasts...which IN TURN pay for the IOC's parties. The TOP (The Olympic Programme...just so you two brainiacs make no mistake about it) sponsors pay for the IOC's vanity projects and their image burnishing. But it is the consumer goods companies who buy into the 2ndary and tertiary metro markets in the US and Canada (since we are talking the winter season) that make up the bread-and-butter of Winter events broadcasting.

ANd if you will notice -- the WOrld Cup sponsors are the #2 companies who can't afford the Olympic bill or have been SHUT OUT in the exclusivity deals of the #1 brand in their particular field: usually, it's MasterCard, the Mars Company, etc., car companies...if it's the summer. You won't be getting the volume of auto ads for a World Cup coverage in the winter.

They aren't puny, they are non-existent. When's the last time you saw a ski-boot ad while watching the WOG? I don't think Baron's ever watched a minute of actual Olympics.

Don't be such a BITCH, u are absolutely laughable on Olympic matters. U are actually going into my To-Laff-at list!! ;) Silly boy.

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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The likely dates for the 2022 Winter Olympics are February 11-27. The World Cup could potentially begin on January 5th or 6th, with the final on Sunday, February 6th. February 6th would be Super Bowl Sunday, though, so that would be a huge potential conflict as well. It will be interesting to see how much pressure Fox Sports can exert on FIFA to keep the World Cup in the summer, as a January or November-December World Cup conflicts directly with the NFL, which is a far more valuable property for Fox.

Fox Sports will have zero influence over FIFA and the World Cup. Remember football is a minor sport in the USA and no-one is interested in the NFL.

FoxSports v UEFA and the main sponsors of the World Cup and the European Leagues is a non-contest

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Fox Sports will have zero influence over FIFA and the World Cup. Remember football is a minor sport in the USA and no-one is interested in the NFL.

FoxSports v UEFA and the main sponsors of the World Cup and the European Leagues is a non-contest

Look at this article: http://blogs.bauer.uh.edu/faculty/uncategorized/advertising-the-super-bowl-vs-winter-olympics/

The question for many companies this year was whether to buy advertising during the Super Bowl and/or the Winter Olympics. A thirty-second spot during these programs is expensive – between $2.5 and $2.8 million for Super Bowl XLIV, and between $360,000 and $490,000 for the Winter Olympics. Since nearly all the ad time for both events is sold out, a better question might be to ask whether the money should be considered well spent.

Both events involve live sporting competitions that attract a broad demographic audience. Of the two events, the Super Bowl is likely to be the better buy. Why? First, compare the CPM for each event. (CPM is an advertising term for the cost of reaching 1,000 people. It allows media planners to compare ad costs across different media vehicles.) Even at $2.8 million per :30 spot, the Super Bowl is likely to have a lower cost-per-thousand than the Olympics. Both events draw large audiences but CBS is expecting 98.7 million people to watch the Super Bowl while NBC is providing advertisers a 14.0 rating guarantee for the Olympics, which translates to 15.8 million viewers. That means the CPM for the Super Bowl is $28.37 (at $2.8 million per :30 and 98.7 million viewers), and the CPM for the Winter Olympics (assuming a $500,000 cost and 14.0 rating) is $31.60. (Comparison CPM for other top-rated shows: American Idol$24.24, Sunday Night Football $18.00, Grey’s Anatomy $13.78.)

Second, the carryover effect of a :30 spot during the Super Bowl is much greater than a spot during the Olympics due to better advertising word-of-mouth, so a company’s $2.8 million goes further with a Super Bowl ad. The Olympics are still mostly about watching athletes compete, with distracting commercial breaks in-between coverage of events. The “big game” has become as much about the commercials shown during the game as about the game itself. People attend Super Bowl parties and talk about the ads. For days after the game, people watch the Super Bowl ads they like, and the ones they missed, on the Internet. People vote for their favorite ads in classrooms and on websites (e.g., USAToday.com), and follow the poll results with interest. All that media buzz before and after the game amounts to additional free ad time.

There are other reasons that make the Super Bowl a better bet. The biggest problems facing advertisers these days are shrinking audiences, clutter, engagement, and accountability. An ad during the Super Bowl stands a better chance than the Winter Olympics at overcoming the first three issues. Accountability – that is, ROI – remains elusive for most advertising.

The problem will be in Europe where int'l football has a bigger following than in the US. A World Cup in the winter in the US market really won't wrinkle the budgets for the SuperBowl and WOG advertisers. Even a World Cup finals won't match the numbers that an Oscar telecast can deliver in the US -- so the problems will be in Europe (in addition to the UEFA, League thing). It's primarily going to be a Euro quagmire that FIFA will have to deal with. The Nordic countries and the Netherlands are much stronger WOG countries than WC-followers.

So, it'll come down to (1) can FIFA ask UEFA and the whatever League in Europe to move and (2) will the players want to arrive in Qatar between X'mas and New Year's in order to get ready for a WC which might start say, the first week of January??

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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Look at this article: http://blogs.bauer.uh.edu/faculty/uncategorized/advertising-the-super-bowl-vs-winter-olympics/

The problem will be in Europe where int'l football has a bigger following than in the US. A World Cup in the winter in the US market really won't wrinkle the budgets for the SuperBowl and WOG advertisers. Even a World Cup finals won't match the numbers that an Oscar telecast can deliver in the US -- so the problems will be in Europe (in addition to the UEFA, League thing). It's primarily going to be a Euro quagmire that FIFA will have to deal with. The Nordic countries and the Netherlands are much stronger WOG countries than WC-followers.

So, it'll come down to (1) can FIFA ask UEFA and the whatever League in Europe to move and (2) will the players want to arrive in Qatar between X'mas and New Year's in order to get ready for a WC which might start say, the first week of January??

I think you will find that the Scandinavians and Dutch are massively football fans, and whilst both participate in winter sports, if given the chance the vast majority will follow football.

As for when teams can attend, if held in Winter, then players will be coming directly out of season so will not need the 3-4 weeks of preparation. Indeed it may not be possible to accommodate this in Qatar and teams will prepare outside of the middle east.

As a number of European leagues have, have had or propose to have a winter break anyway, the task of FIFA might be far easier than you think

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I think you will find that the Scandinavians and Dutch are massively football fans, and whilst both participate in winter sports, if given the chance the vast majority will follow football.

Really? Any hard facts to back this up? But people are used to things happening in a certain season.

The point is: the WOGs will not be displaced. It is NOT dislocating anybody or anything. It is FIFA that is rattling the calendar by trying to shift things around WHEN certain other events have already had first dibs on those spots on the calendar. They're the ones who are going to have ti find a solution to the problem they created for themselves in the first place.

As a number of European leagues have, have had or propose to have a winter break anyway, the task of FIFA might be far easier than you think

Alright, then what's all the fuss about?? :rolleyes:

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The olympics alone r a bigger brand then fifa and im sure fifa is the one that will suffer if it moves.

The Winter Olympics aren't. If the World Cup moves to Jan/Feb time (all indications are it'll move to December anyway so this is a moot point) then a lot of Europe will be watching the football. The Winter Olympics, certainly here anyway, are more or less a novelty every four years watching sports we'd not normally watch out of curiosity's sake in many cases. If there is a clash there will only be one winner in many countries - the football - and the IOC will suffer.

But as I say, it's more likely to be a switch to December, so it's a moot point.

http://www.aroundtherings.com/articles/view.aspx?id=43899

Edited by RobH
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ANd if you will notice -- the WOrld Cup sponsors are the #2 companies who can't afford the Olympic bill or have been SHUT OUT in the exclusivity deals of the #1 brand in their particular field: usually, it's Pepsi-Cola, MasterCard,

Actually Coke and Visa sponsor the World Cup. Along with Adidas, McDonalds, etc.

I take it you've never watched a minute of the World Cup either.

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Becuz that's a win-win for everyone...except for UEFA. So they'll just have to adjust their calendars or individual players will just have to make choices, no??

Actually individual players cannot make that decision as they are individually contracted to clubs and can only play international football on an 'agreed' number of release dates.

December is an interesting point - the Bundesliga winter break starts around 20th December, Ligue1 starts around 22nd December

It CANNOT start earlier as it is an even split in the middle of the season.

We are talking about the 5 wealthiest sports leagues in the world changing their dates to simply help out the Winter Olympic games?

And lets not forget - 99% of the world's leading players from outside Europe actually play for leagues under the UEFA mandate.

It would be like having the SuperBowl contested by two NCAA Division III teams if Europe did not agree to the release of their players.

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We are talking about the 5 wealthiest sports leagues in the world changing their dates to simply help out the Winter Olympic games?

Would love to hear what you think are the 5 wealthiest sports leagues in the world. Because I'm pretty sure that list would include the NFL and probably Formula 1. UEFA, if taken as a whole maybe. But not the individual leagues.

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ANd if you will notice -- the WOrld Cup sponsors are the #2 companies who can't afford the Olympic bill or have been SHUT OUT in the exclusivity deals of the #1 brand in their particular field: usually, it's Pepsi-Cola, MasterCard, the Mars Company, etc., car companies...if it's the summer. You won't be getting the volume of auto ads for a World CUp coverage in the winter.

Seriously baron, you should hire me to do your research for you so that you can know what you're talking about before you comment.. http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/organisation/partners/index.html

FIFA's main sponsors include a lot of the same companies that are TOP partners.. Coca-Cola (not Pepsi-Cola), Visa (not Mastercard), McDonalds. May not quite be the lineup of top name companies that the IOC has, but I'd hardly look at it as a list of #2 companies.

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Seriously baron, you should hire me to do your research for you so that you can know what you're talking about before you comment..

Y should I when everybody does it (for me) for free anyway -- as u just did? :lol:

And I would probably choose a more agreeable, less UPPITY assistant. ;)

FIFA's main sponsors include a lot of the same companies that are TOP partners.. Coca-Cola (not Pepsi-Cola), Visa (not Mastercard), McDonalds. May not quite be the lineup of top name companies that the IOC has, but I'd hardly look at it as a list of #2 companies.

Pepsi, MasterCard USED to be World Cup sponsors (I think as of 2002 and possibly 2006). .

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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Y should I when everybody does it for free anyway? :lol: And I would probably choose a less UPPITY assistant. ;)

Because if you did, you might give off the impression you know what you're talking about.

Pepsi, MasterCard USED to be World Cup sponsors (I think as of 2002 and possibly 2006). .

Again baron, don't think.. look these things up on your own (or at least have me do it BEFORE you make the comment)... Sponsoring Soccer's Big Event

Mastercard used to be a World Cup sponsor. Pepsi was not. Coca-cola has been a World Cup sponsor for more than 60 years now.

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The likely dates for the 2022 Winter Olympics are February 11-27. The World Cup could potentially begin on January 5th or 6th, with the final on Sunday, February 6th. February 6th would be Super Bowl Sunday, though, so that would be a huge potential conflict as well. It will be interesting to see how much pressure Fox Sports can exert on FIFA to keep the World Cup in the summer, as a January or November-December World Cup conflicts directly with the NFL, which is a far more valuable property for Fox.

Fox obviously have a vested interest in when the World Cup is held, but like gromit said, they're powerless in this one. It's not like the Olympics where NBC pays a large percentage of the TV rights to the IOC. Fox can exert all the pressure they want on FIFA, but it's not going to help them. They're probably going to get screwed and there's little to nothing they can do about it.

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