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stryker

2022: A troubling scenario

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I remain totally incredulous at either the (a) rampant pro-western and generally xenophobic reactions here; ( B) the complete ignorance of politics (esp. geopolitical) concerns; © the committment to the Olympic cause and (d) the inability to grasp that other parts of the world aside from Europe and the Anglophone states actually deserve to hold the games from time to time.

Africa has never even hosted, though that is not a concern here.

Asia has more than 60% of the world's population, but has hosted far fewer times than Europe/US.

Asia, as an idea, is very different from Asia as a geographical construct. Asia PROPER includes all of the Middle Ease, the Caucasus, Central Asia, South Asia, SEAsia, East Asia, NEast Asia... a region so diverse that it is literally more diverse than the rest of the world combined.

Thus, arguments against '3 Asian Games' are, at best, geographically ignorant and, at worst, racist and xenophobic.

China won't, nor does it intend to, win the 2022 games - this is a 'dry run' to prep China for much more serious future bids.

Oslo isn't going to make it; the gov't itself is ready to shut it down.

If that happens, Krakow is the last 'traditional' city in waiting but (a) the Polish are less gung-ho about the Olympics than imagined; ( B) the IOC doesn't prohibit, but certainly counts against, multi-state bids and © Poland is still recovering from 2008 with strong, political strings attached due to being an EU member.

With Oslo basically over, Stockholm long-over and Lviv seeking to hold the first games in a war zone... Beijing and Almaty are our finalists. I've already said - and strongly believe - China has no intention of winning (I'd go so far as to say they'd be upset). Leaving... Almaty.

Why the hate?

Almaty has the cheapest bid, it is the most prepared, it is a GORGEOUS locale, it is borderline-developed, it has the most consolidated Olympics in many years, it... well, honestly, if I didn't know about our planet's politics I'd say Almaty was the obvious choice. Of course, there is fear that this will help legitimize Nazarbayev's authoritarianism and perhaps it will but that has never been an IOC concern. Kazakhstan has been the single most successful former-SSR (INCLUDING Russia) in terms of economics; it is ready to host, fully capable and willing. Is it out of the way? Define 'out of the way' - the US is more distant for people from Asia (60% of the world's population) than other potential hosts. In fact, Almaty is highly centralized so it will be easiest, on average, for people to make it there than anywhere else. The only anti-Almaty sentiment I've seen here is based in a disgusting European-xenophobia.

Almaty will win.

How is it racist? Because you think Almaty will Win and we don't, you throw serious allegations? You contradict yourself. You say there is more to the World then Europe, but Asia should Host 3 Olympics in a row. There is more World then Asia. Asia is part of the World, not the World. Just because I and some others think Oslo will win and some feel Krakow will Win, doesn't mean we are racist. Get your facts correct.

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Politician, I've got two words for you. Can you guess what they are?

Edited by Rob.

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How is it racist? Because you think Almaty will Win and we don't, you throw serious allegations? You contradict yourself. You say there is more to the World then Europe, but Asia should Host 3 Olympics in a row. There is more World then Asia. Asia is part of the World, not the World. Just because I and some others think Oslo will win and some feel Krakow will Win, doesn't mean we are racist. Get your facts correct.

I don't believe I ever used the term 'racist' (in fact, I know I wouldn't, because it's a ridiculous term - racism is embedded in anti-ethnic sentiments that come out of British anthropology, nothing more). Asia, having over 66% of the world's population should have hosted at least, say, 40% of games by now - but they've had, what, 3 total? The IOC has long been Euro-centric which was fine until decolonization, but it the games are to survive as an institution with world-renown then they better start recognizing most of Asia, all of Latin America and all of Sub-Saharan Africa as part of the world.

You may think Oslo will win, perhaps it can, but the recent developments in domestic politics suggest otherwise (and anyone trained in political science would agree with me). Oslo is out. It's down to Krakow, Beijing and Almaty.

What bother's me is the xenophobia I see here - the idea that if it isn't European, it is evil and must be resisted. Krakow would be nice, I admit, but the bid has too many issues this time around. Beijing and Almaty are the only two bidding cities with the capacity to pull off the games - Beijing does NOT want it (and I'd hope any expert in Chinese politics here would chime in at this point, because to those of us who do study China it is absurd to think that they want the 2022 Olympics). Almaty and Krakow are it. The IOC could choose Poland and deal with issues it doesn't want to deal with (namely a politically/economically unstable state and a games that would take place in two states) OR they can choose Almaty (a gorgeous city in a state never hosting before, but in a city that is IDEAL for the winter games). Almaty has the most compact, realistic, easily-achieved games in recent history; they are a winter-nation and they are becoming a major world power (geopolitically). Honestly, the IOC would be stupid NOT to give the games to Almaty (and anyone who thinks that the IOC is apolitical should just stop posting). Almaty has this; perhaps not ideal, but highly capable, part of the desire to bring attention to the fact that Kazakhstan is about to replace Saudi Arabia as the world's greatest energy source, yet, regardless, very capable of hosting a great games for relatively low cost.

The only racism... or more accurately, ethno-cultural centrism, I see is from those supporting typical European venues (Europe should NOT be allowed to host for at least 3 or 4 more cycles). Almaty is next to Oslo in capability. Period.

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I remain totally incredulous at either the (a) rampant pro-western and generally xenophobic reactions here; ( B) the complete ignorance of politics (esp. geopolitical) concerns; © the committment to the Olympic cause and (d) the inability to grasp that other parts of the world aside from Europe and the Anglophone states actually deserve to hold the games from time to time.

Africa has never even hosted, though that is not a concern here.

Asia has more than 60% of the world's population, but has hosted far fewer times than Europe/US.

Asia, as an idea, is very different from Asia as a geographical construct. Asia PROPER includes all of the Middle Ease, the Caucasus, Central Asia, South Asia, SEAsia, East Asia, NEast Asia... a region so diverse that it is literally more diverse than the rest of the world combined.

Thus, arguments against '3 Asian Games' are, at best, geographically ignorant and, at worst, racist and xenophobic.

China won't, nor does it intend to, win the 2022 games - this is a 'dry run' to prep China for much more serious future bids.

Oslo isn't going to make it; the gov't itself is ready to shut it down.

If that happens, Krakow is the last 'traditional' city in waiting but (a) the Polish are less gung-ho about the Olympics than imagined; ( B) the IOC doesn't prohibit, but certainly counts against, multi-state bids and © Poland is still recovering from 2008 with strong, political strings attached due to being an EU member.

With Oslo basically over, Stockholm long-over and Lviv seeking to hold the first games in a war zone... Beijing and Almaty are our finalists. I've already said - and strongly believe - China has no intention of winning (I'd go so far as to say they'd be upset). Leaving... Almaty.

Why the hate?

Almaty has the cheapest bid, it is the most prepared, it is a GORGEOUS locale, it is borderline-developed, it has the most consolidated Olympics in many years, it... well, honestly, if I didn't know about our planet's politics I'd say Almaty was the obvious choice. Of course, there is fear that this will help legitimize Nazarbayev's authoritarianism and perhaps it will but that has never been an IOC concern. Kazakhstan has been the single most successful former-SSR (INCLUDING Russia) in terms of economics; it is ready to host, fully capable and willing. Is it out of the way? Define 'out of the way' - the US is more distant for people from Asia (60% of the world's population) than other potential hosts. In fact, Almaty is highly centralized so it will be easiest, on average, for people to make it there than anywhere else. The only anti-Almaty sentiment I've seen here is based in a disgusting European-xenophobia.

Almaty will win.

I don't believe I ever used the term 'racist' (in fact, I know I wouldn't, because it's a ridiculous term - racism is embedded in anti-ethnic sentiments that come out of British anthropology, nothing more). Asia, having over 66% of the world's population should have hosted at least, say, 40% of games by now - but they've had, what, 3 total? The IOC has long been Euro-centric which was fine until decolonization, but it the games are to survive as an institution with world-renown then they better start recognizing most of Asia, all of Latin America and all of Sub-Saharan Africa as part of the world.

You may think Oslo will win, perhaps it can, but the recent developments in domestic politics suggest otherwise (and anyone trained in political science would agree with me). Oslo is out. It's down to Krakow, Beijing and Almaty.

What bother's me is the xenophobia I see here - the idea that if it isn't European, it is evil and must be resisted. Krakow would be nice, I admit, but the bid has too many issues this time around. Beijing and Almaty are the only two bidding cities with the capacity to pull off the games - Beijing does NOT want it (and I'd hope any expert in Chinese politics here would chime in at this point, because to those of us who do study China it is absurd to think that they want the 2022 Olympics). Almaty and Krakow are it. The IOC could choose Poland and deal with issues it doesn't want to deal with (namely a politically/economically unstable state and a games that would take place in two states) OR they can choose Almaty (a gorgeous city in a state never hosting before, but in a city that is IDEAL for the winter games). Almaty has the most compact, realistic, easily-achieved games in recent history; they are a winter-nation and they are becoming a major world power (geopolitically). Honestly, the IOC would be stupid NOT to give the games to Almaty (and anyone who thinks that the IOC is apolitical should just stop posting). Almaty has this; perhaps not ideal, but highly capable, part of the desire to bring attention to the fact that Kazakhstan is about to replace Saudi Arabia as the world's greatest energy source, yet, regardless, very capable of hosting a great games for relatively low cost.

The only racism... or more accurately, ethno-cultural centrism, I see is from those supporting typical European venues (Europe should NOT be allowed to host for at least 3 or 4 more cycles). Almaty is next to Oslo in capability. Period.

Who's being 'Racist' now? You said Europe shouldn't be allowed to Host for another 3 or 4 Cycles.

I don't believe I ever used the term 'racist' (in fact, I know I wouldn't, because it's a ridiculous term - racism is embedded in anti-ethnic sentiments that come out of British anthropology, nothing more). Asia, having over 66% of the world's population should have hosted at least, say, 40% of games by now - but they've had, what, 3 total? The IOC has long been Euro-centric which was fine until decolonization, but it the games are to survive as an institution with world-renown then they better start recognizing most of Asia, all of Latin America and all of Sub-Saharan Africa as part of the world.

You may think Oslo will win, perhaps it can, but the recent developments in domestic politics suggest otherwise (and anyone trained in political science would agree with me). Oslo is out. It's down to Krakow, Beijing and Almaty.

What bother's me is the xenophobia I see here - the idea that if it isn't European, it is evil and must be resisted. Krakow would be nice, I admit, but the bid has too many issues this time around. Beijing and Almaty are the only two bidding cities with the capacity to pull off the games - Beijing does NOT want it (and I'd hope any expert in Chinese politics here would chime in at this point, because to those of us who do study China it is absurd to think that they want the 2022 Olympics). Almaty and Krakow are it. The IOC could choose Poland and deal with issues it doesn't want to deal with (namely a politically/economically unstable state and a games that would take place in two states) OR they can choose Almaty (a gorgeous city in a state never hosting before, but in a city that is IDEAL for the winter games). Almaty has the most compact, realistic, easily-achieved games in recent history; they are a winter-nation and they are becoming a major world power (geopolitically). Honestly, the IOC would be stupid NOT to give the games to Almaty (and anyone who thinks that the IOC is apolitical should just stop posting). Almaty has this; perhaps not ideal, but highly capable, part of the desire to bring attention to the fact that Kazakhstan is about to replace Saudi Arabia as the world's greatest energy source, yet, regardless, very capable of hosting a great games for relatively low cost.

The only racism... or more accurately, ethno-cultural centrism, I see is from those supporting typical European venues (Europe should NOT be allowed to host for at least 3 or 4 more cycles). Almaty is next to Oslo in capability. Period.

I supported PyeongChang 2018 and Tokyo 2020, so your accusations are WRONG.

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Tony, please look up the definition of racism.

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rac·ism

ˈrāˌsizəm/
noun
noun: racism
  1. the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
    • prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
      "a program to combat racism"
      synonyms: racial discrimination, racialism, racial prejudice, xenophobia,chauvinism, bigotry, casteism
      "Aborigines are the main victims of racism in Australia"

(your welcome)

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I remain totally incredulous at either the (a) rampant pro-western and generally xenophobic reactions here; ( B) the complete ignorance of politics (esp. geopolitical) concerns; © the committment to the Olympic cause and (d) the inability to grasp that other parts of the world aside from Europe and the Anglophone states actually deserve to hold the games from time to time.

Africa has never even hosted, though that is not a concern here.

Asia has more than 60% of the world's population, but has hosted far fewer times than Europe/US.

Asia, as an idea, is very different from Asia as a geographical construct. Asia PROPER includes all of the Middle Ease, the Caucasus, Central Asia, South Asia, SEAsia, East Asia, NEast Asia... a region so diverse that it is literally more diverse than the rest of the world combined.

Thus, arguments against '3 Asian Games' are, at best, geographically ignorant and, at worst, racist and xenophobic.

China won't, nor does it intend to, win the 2022 games - this is a 'dry run' to prep China for much more serious future bids.

Oslo isn't going to make it; the gov't itself is ready to shut it down.

If that happens, Krakow is the last 'traditional' city in waiting but (a) the Polish are less gung-ho about the Olympics than imagined; ( B) the IOC doesn't prohibit, but certainly counts against, multi-state bids and © Poland is still recovering from 2008 with strong, political strings attached due to being an EU member.

With Oslo basically over, Stockholm long-over and Lviv seeking to hold the first games in a war zone... Beijing and Almaty are our finalists. I've already said - and strongly believe - China has no intention of winning (I'd go so far as to say they'd be upset). Leaving... Almaty.

Why the hate?

Almaty has the cheapest bid, it is the most prepared, it is a GORGEOUS locale, it is borderline-developed, it has the most consolidated Olympics in many years, it... well, honestly, if I didn't know about our planet's politics I'd say Almaty was the obvious choice. Of course, there is fear that this will help legitimize Nazarbayev's authoritarianism and perhaps it will but that has never been an IOC concern. Kazakhstan has been the single most successful former-SSR (INCLUDING Russia) in terms of economics; it is ready to host, fully capable and willing. Is it out of the way? Define 'out of the way' - the US is more distant for people from Asia (60% of the world's population) than other potential hosts. In fact, Almaty is highly centralized so it will be easiest, on average, for people to make it there than anywhere else. The only anti-Almaty sentiment I've seen here is based in a disgusting European-xenophobia.

Almaty will win.

So we're going to go from 1 SSR to another in 8 years and you're going to talk about diversity?

It's true that Asia has a lot of sub-regions. But how many of those sub-regions are capable and ready to host an Olympics? Especially considering in the entire history of the Olympics, really only 1 region of Asia has ever hosted. And if you're going to talk about the population argument, remember that the largest portion of that population chose not to participate in the Olympic movement until the mid-80s. So it's hard to make the argument that they've been unfairly excluded from hosting the Olympics, particularly when the majority of countries on the continent have shown little to no interest in hosting. Contrast that with Europe with many nations, albeit smaller than many of their Asian counterparts, most of whom have shown interest in hosting.

The thread topic is to discuss whether or not the 2022 bid race is a trouble scenario. I believe it is. I don't think it's racist or xenophobic to think it's troubling that several notable European countries have shied away from this Olympics. 1 more already dropped out, 1 more seems to be on the edge of dropping out, and we may lose yet another. It's hardly a calamity of historic proportions to be left with Almaty and Beijing, but at the same time, the idea would be to even out hosting across all continents, not to do it all in one fell swoop and potentially further discourage European nations from wanting to host the Olympics.

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The only anti-Almaty sentiment I've seen here is based in a disgusting European-xenophobia.

Nonsense. It isn't xenophobia to point out that few tourists go to Kazakhstan. The lack of tourists isn't due to xenophobia. Toursists aren't drawn there, and are actively repulsed in many cases.

Your central arguement that (1) there are lots of people in Asia + (2) Almaty is in central Asia = ideal shows a lack of how the world, tourism, sport and buisnes work. Almaty may be relatively near, say, Bangladesh's 150 million poplulation. But it won't draw more than a handful of interest.

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If WoG have been in Asia only 2 times before (Saporo and Nagano) it's only because nobody cares in Asia about WoG. Winter sports aren't in the Asian culture excepted in Japan... It's a fact, and the winter market isn't in Asia but in Europe and in North America. European And north american develop this market since more than 1 century. In Korea it's only since the 90's and in China only since the 2000's. Really the majority of asian don't know what is Alpin Ski or Short Track... In Asia a large majority of habitants lives in place where they have never seen snow... And the regions with mountains and snow are usually very poor.

About SoG if you look since the 80's you had SoG in 1988 and 2008 in Asia, soon in 2020, about Europe 1992, 2004 and 2012, in America 1984, 1996, 2016... IOC respect all continents. Africa wasn't able to host SoG it's not because people don't like African people.

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If WoG have been in Asia only 2 times before (Saporo and Nagano) it's only because nobody cares in Asia about WoG. Winter sports aren't in the Asian culture excepted in Japan... It's a fact, and the winter market isn't in Asia but in Europe and in North America. European And north american develop this market since more than 1 century. In Korea it's only since the 90's and in China only since the 2000's. Really the majority of asian don't know what is Alpin Ski or Short Track... In Asia a large majority of habitants lives in place where they have never seen snow... And the regions with mountains and snow are usually very poor.

About SoG if you look since the 80's you had SoG in 1988 and 2008 in Asia, soon in 2020, about Europe 1992, 2004 and 2012, in America 1984, 1996, 2016... IOC respect all continents. Africa wasn't able to host SoG it's not because people don't like African people.

U tell 'em, Tulsa-baby!!!

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The problem with Kazakhstan is that while it has been economically successful, that economic success is driven by oil rather than a thriving middle class. In the economic (and educational) development of the common people, China is FAR ahead of Kazakhstan.

When it comes to putting the IOC in five star hotels and providing the venues for the athletes to compete in, Kazakhstan would do a great job. As for the experiences of fans, it would be really, really bad. Kazakhstan's hospitality industry is still very embryonic, and their visa policy is almost as bad as Russia's.

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Beijing ? It's the driest place in China. moreover China pissed off human right event during 2008 SoG. And since when Beijin is a winter city ? please stop bullshit.

According to my mom, Beijing is a winter city... (Also, if Beijing isn't a winter city, then is it a summer city? It's pretty far north [Even higher than Nagano and PyeongChang] and is somewhat near some snowy mountains, even though Beijing itself is in a plain)

aIs5cip.jpg

Besides, don't you think the smog and the snow fit in nicely? :D

Anyways, I'd take extremely dry over extremely humid any day.

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Avarage snow depth (in cm, during period of Games)

Oslo 25

Almaty 16

Kraków 14

Lviv 10,5

Beijing 0,4 (Yanqing, proposed for alpine skiing 5,3)

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Avarage snow depth (in cm, during period of Games)

Oslo 25

Almaty 16

Kraków 14

Lviv 10,5

Beijing 0,4 (Yanqing, proposed for alpine skiing 5,3)

Pfft, just make dem snow, like dey did in Sochi

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China is big country, I'm sure they could have a better bid than Beijing...

But seriously which bid has the most chance to win this race ? If i'm logic i tell me 2022 it's the european turn but Lviv seems definitively lost with the Ukrainian crisis, Cracow seems not very strong and Oslo seems strong but a lack of support from government... Is it possible than IOC ask for some new bids or try to find another solution ? Or who will win ? Really I have no idea...

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China is big country, I'm sure they could have a better bid than Beijing...

But seriously which bid has the most chance to win this race ? If i'm logic i tell me 2022 it's the european turn but Lviv seems definitively lost with the Ukrainian crisis, Cracow seems not very strong and Oslo seems strong but a lack of support from government... Is it possible than IOC ask for some new bids or try to find another solution ? Or who will win ? Really I have no idea...

They can't ask for new bids at this point, not unless what they have in front of them is completely unacceptable. As much as we know Lviv has no shot because of the unrest in Ukraine, they're still in the running. So are Oslo and Krakow until their governments tell us otherwise. And Almaty and Beijing seem like less than ideal options, but they are suitable.

You have a number of European countries who either dropped out (Sweden) or declined interest in the first place (Germany), so at this point, are they really going to be interested in entering the race? Probably not.

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The IOC makes the rules; I don't see why they can't change the rules. They'd have to be careful with their wording to not offend the remaining candidates too much, but I think they could pull it off.

The bigger question is what would the IOC gain by opening up the bidding. Do they have reason to believe a better candiate would step?? Unless they have secret assurances from someplace like Calgary or SLC, I don't see them hosting an open casting call and hoping for the best.

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All this panic is overrated. Until Oslo and Krakow Officially withdraw Bids, the 2022 Winter Olympics is in safe hands. Even if Oslo and Krakow withdraw, Beijing will pull it off. Of course, if in the end, the IOC are left with Almaty and Lviv, then it is a crisis.

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The IOC makes the rules; I don't see why they can't change the rules. They'd have to be careful with their wording to not offend the remaining candidates too much, but I think they could pull it off.

The bigger question is what would the IOC gain by opening up the bidding. Do they have reason to believe a better candiate would step?? Unless they have secret assurances from someplace like Calgary or SLC, I don't see them hosting an open casting call and hoping for the best.

Kinda like how much of the world is pointing a finger at FIFA about 2022 asking them to change the rules and introduce new candidates? The IOC isn't at that point yet. And I agree, no guarantee of a better candidate, plus they most certainly risk pissing off the ones they have, particularly the ones that might be on the fence about staying in the race in the first place.

All this panic is overrated. Until Oslo and Krakow Officially withdraw Bids, the 2022 Winter Olympics is in safe hands. Even if Oslo and Krakow withdraw, Beijing will pull it off. Of course, if in the end, the IOC are left with Almaty and Lviv, then it is a crisis.

For someone who likes to project out potential hosts for events decades in advance, that's not very forward thinking there. Yes it's true that Oslo and Krakow might stay in the race, but the very real possibility is there that 1 or both of them may drop out. Because of that, the 2022 Olympics are not in safe hands, and it would be a mistake to assume they are only to have 2 more bids drop out on them. If they're left with Almaty and Beijing, it's not the end of the world, but at the very least, it's a mini-crisis to have had no less than 4 or 5 cities/countries in Europe show interest in the Olympics (not including Lviv) only to have exactly zero of them make it to the final vote.

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Kinda like how much of the world is pointing a finger at FIFA about 2022 asking them to change the rules and introduce new candidates? The IOC isn't at that point yet. And I agree, no guarantee of a better candidate, plus they most certainly risk pissing off the ones they have, particularly the ones that might be on the fence about staying in the race in the first place.

For someone who likes to project out potential hosts for events decades in advance, that's not very forward thinking there. Yes it's true that Oslo and Krakow might stay in the race, but the very real possibility is there that 1 or both of them may drop out. Because of that, the 2022 Olympics are not in safe hands, and it would be a mistake to assume they are only to have 2 more bids drop out on them. If they're left with Almaty and Beijing, it's not the end of the world, but at the very least, it's a mini-crisis to have had no less than 4 or 5 cities/countries in Europe show interest in the Olympics (not including Lviv) only to have exactly zero of them make it to the final vote.

That's not true. It's like saying the 2020 Summer Olympics are in trouble because Tokyo might withdraw. It's not official, so there is no crisis. Stockholm has Officially withdrawn, that's official. We discuss Stockholm's withdrawing, because it's Official. Oslo and Krakow are still Officially in the race.

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That's not true. It's like saying the 2020 Summer Olympics are in trouble because Tokyo might withdraw.

It's nothing like saying that.

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That's not true. It's like saying the 2020 Summer Olympics are in trouble because Tokyo might withdraw. It's not official, so there is no crisis. Stockholm has Officially withdrawn, that's official. We discuss Stockholm's withdrawing, because it's Official. Oslo and Krakow are still Officially in the race.

But the Public in Krakow will most likely vote down the Olympics and things are now looking bleak for the Oslo Norway bid both the minor parties are against it which the government needs there support to rule Norway and even the major parties are divided on it too, Ukraine is in a civil war and it looks like going to be like an race I said 1000 times going to be a race between Almaty Kazakhstan and Beijing China to the end trust me on it it will happen.

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That's not true. It's like saying the 2020 Summer Olympics are in trouble because Tokyo might withdraw. It's not official, so there is no crisis. Stockholm has Officially withdrawn, that's official. We discuss Stockholm's withdrawing, because it's Official. Oslo and Krakow are still Officially in the race.

If you want to ignore what's going on because nothing is 'official' yet, then go ahead. But on a website dedicated to discussing Olympic bidding, it's pretty hard to ignore that the news that says that Oslo may be forced to withdraw. And Krakow may have reason to withdraw. That's not rampant speculation or guesswork either. If you know something about Tokyo that we don't, please feel free to share. But we have no reason to believe their ability and desire to host the 2020 Olympics is in question. We have very good reason to believe that's the case with Oslo and Krakow.

Again, for someone who likes to project ahead with future hosts, I'm surprised you of all people wants to hide in the present and pretend like Oslo and Krakow aren't facing major problems. Both are. To think otherwise is being extremely naive.

But the Public in Krakow will most likely vote down the Olympics and things are now looking bleak for the Oslo Norway bid both the minor parties are against it which the government needs there support to rule Norway and even the major parties are divided on it too, Ukraine is in a civil war and it looks like going to be like an race I said 1000 times going to be a race between Almaty Kazakhstan and Beijing China to the end trust me on it it will happen.

No thanks.

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