Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Madrid is been hardly registered in 2012 race trying to swim between all that world-class cities but made 3rd round. Then in 2016 was not European time but Chicago and Tokyo fell before Madrid.

For 2012, New York's main stadium plan fell apart a month before the vote. And Moscow wasn't a very strong contender. So no surprise that those two dropped first.

And for 2016, you're not seeing/forgetting all the geopolitcal ramifications that were working against Chicago. But still, Madrid lost to Rio de Janiero 3-1. So it was still pretty clear where the IOC wanted to go & where they didn't.

I've nothing against Madrid. I've even said in other threads (& perhaps even this one), that I think 2032 is a more opportune time for them, geopolitical , & when more time has passed for Spain's circumstances to improve. But if you think that I'm still being biased, then whatever. I won't care what you think either.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 227
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

1. Magellan was Portuguese working for the Spanish Crown and together with Elcano, completed the first circumnavigation of the Earth. Something that I am very proud of but at the same time not related

Gladly, but if you're still going to post inaccuracies about me, then I'll have to correct your absurdities. It'll be easier to forget about you once you stop posting such diatribe.

Its because if Tokyo gets 2020 then for North America to follow in 2024 would mean three straight Summer Olympics not in Europe. This is a scenario that is unlikely.

Four years ago, Madrid and Toyko were both up for the the games, and Madrid got significantly more votes than Tokyo. No,that doesn't guarantee that Madrid will get more votes than Tokyo this year. But it is a significant clue into the minds of IOC voters and shouldn't be ignored.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Four years ago, Madrid and Toyko were both up for the the games, and Madrid got significantly more votes than Tokyo. No,that doesn't guarantee that Madrid will get more votes than Tokyo this year. But it is a significant clue into the minds of IOC voters and shouldn't be ignored.

Eh. The old Fascist was also still alive 4 years ago. A number of those whose favors he recalled for that vote have, like him, moved on or up to the "Honorary Members" who cannot vote (e.g., Francisco Elizalde of the Philippines who might've voted for Madrid due to his Hispanic heritage, is now an "Honorary member"). So, that's really a wash.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Eh. The old Fascist was also still alive 4 years ago. A number of those whose favors he recalled for that vote have, like him, moved on or up to the "Honorary Members" who cannot vote (e.g., Francisco Elizalde of the Philippines who might've voted for Madrid due to his Hispanic heritage, is now an "Honorary member"). So, that's really a wash.

i'm almost relieved to hear you say that. but are they still worth underestimating?

Link to post
Share on other sites

We could say the same of London vs. Paris in 2012. Frenchies were the clear winners and, suddenly, all the hullaballoo about the so-called Seb Coe effect turned everything upside down. English magic? No. Lobbying. As usual.

I don't buy it: it is always what it interests the most, and clearly Paris have not awaken the enough interest in IOC members. If they keep on bidding they'll have it sometime. Maybe's Madrid thinking.

I do not accept the above. London was close to Paris throughout the campaign. London ultimately ran their campaign better and won fair and square in the end.

In 1992, there was some wrangling to elect Albertville first and handicap Paris. It's a totally different situation.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I do not accept the above. London was close to Paris throughout the campaign. London ultimately ran their campaign better and won fair and square in the end.

In 1992, there was some wrangling to elect Albertville first and handicap Paris. It's a totally different situation.

Could you remind us when the IOC or any of its members said something along this race about the distance between contenders? ThI help you: No.

On the other hand I will tell you something we know:

-Madrid won Tokyo for 2016 olympic race.

-Madrid got the best mark cut-off over all candidates. (Madrid - 8.09, Tokyo - 8.02)

-Madrid made the best presentation (by far) in Laussane, with less than 10 minutes asking questions.

Another thing is your feeling about this race, your wishes, and of course, the consequences of undervaluing or ignoring madrid city and its proyect bid (also by the "media"). But all these are conjectures, the above are objective information.

And please, don't talk about fair play and then mention London.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Could you remind us when the IOC or any of its members said something along this race about the distance between contenders? ThI help you: No.

On the other hand I will tell you something we know:

-Madrid won Tokyo for 2016 olympic race.

-Madrid got the best mark cut-off over all candidates. (Madrid - 8.09, Tokyo - 8.02)

-Madrid made the best presentation (by far) in Laussane, with less than 10 minutes asking questions.

Another thing is your feeling about this race, your wishes, and of course, the consequences of undervaluing or ignoring madrid city and its proyect bid (also by the "media"). But all these are conjectures, the above are objective information.

And please, don't talk about fair play and then mention London.

Pundits and the bid index considered the 2012 race to be between Paris and London from the start. As the various presentations were made and the evaluation report was released, the race tightened.

London offered a much more compelling story for the Games (youth emphasis, urban regeneration) than Paris (we deserve the Games because we've already waited too long and we're Paris).

Jaques Chirac gave offense while Tony Blair made it clear he would put in any work necessary to make the Games a success.

What evidence do you have that proves London did not play fairly?

Link to post
Share on other sites

And who says lobbying of some kinds isn't fair anyway? Surely all bids lobby? Paris SHOULD have known the game much better than London, what with it being their third bid. If they lost because they didn't do certain things as well as London, I'm not sure what their excuse is.

And everything Athensfan says above is true as well. The media put Paris way out ahead, sure, but what do they know? They also had Chicago as favourites. It's true to say though, that whilst favourites often lose, bids considered a fair way behind don't often win. A Madrid win would surprise me almost as much as Annecy 2018 or Moscow 2012 for this reason. But it's true also they have a strong base in the IOC, and are obviously very clued up when it comes to lobbying too....so a shock is possible, but as I say I'd be surprised if it happened.

And please, don't talk about fair play and then mention London.

Still bitter eight years on are we? Dear oh dear! Nobody has posted anything even remotely substantial to suggest London didn't play fairly. I doubt you've any shocking new revelations either. yawn.gif

Edited by RobH
Link to post
Share on other sites

And who says lobbying of some kinds isn't fair anyway? Surely all bids lobby? Paris SHOULD have known the game much better than London, what with it being their third bid. If they lost because they didn't do certain things as well as London, I'm not sure what their excuse is.

They simply don't want to bid because they're offended. And this means Madrid should wait until Paris decides.

Or any other silly argument given in this forums regarding to Madrid not deserving the games before France, Germany or Italy.

Link to post
Share on other sites

If France, Germany or Italy show no interest but Spain does, of course that shouldn't be held against Madrid! But regardless, there may still be a feeling it's too soon after Barcelona, in which case maybe Europe misses out this time around and another city takes the spoils.

That said, if there are IOC members from those nations whose NOCS are interested in 2024, it may work to Madrid's disadvantage.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think that Madrid's bid team actually count on the whole of European members voting for them, in fact I can imagine that the French members of the IOC lobbying strongly against Madrid, or Istanbul for that matter, because if Europe was chosen in 2020, a Paris 2024 bid would be almost completely dead, it's obvious that being in Europe can work against Madrid, and maybe even for Istanbul.

However I can also see the opposite happening, that is, members from outside Europe with interests in 2024 would be willing to vote for Madrid or Istanbul so as to clear their way for 2024 and have a Europe-free race, which may ease their chances as it is known that Europe tends to put up strong and serious bids. This might be the thinking of the American members of the African members.

Link to post
Share on other sites

If France, Germany or Italy show no interest but Spain does, of course that shouldn't be held against Madrid! But regardless, there may still be a feeling it's too soon after Barcelona, in which case maybe Europe misses out this time around and another city takes the spoils.

That said, if there are IOC members from those nations whose NOCS are interested in 2024, it may work to Madrid's disadvantage.

Absolutely. But it may work as an advantage if Asia, America do want to have a clear land on 2024, which is not that unlikely...

I don't think that Madrid's bid team actually count on the whole of European members voting for them, in fact I can imagine that the French members of the IOC lobbying strongly against Madrid, or Istanbul for that matter, because if Europe was chosen in 2020, a Paris 2024 bid would be almost completely dead, it's obvious that being in Europe can work against Madrid, and maybe even for Istanbul.

However I can also see the opposite happening, that is, members from outside Europe with interests in 2024 would be willing to vote for Madrid or Istanbul so as to clear their way for 2024 and have a Europe-free race, which may ease their chances as it is known that Europe tends to put up strong and serious bids. This might be the thinking of the American members of the African members.

That's what I posted just at the same time as you :) Couldn't agree more.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...