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1. Magellan was Portuguese working for the Spanish Crown and together with Elcano, completed the first circumnavigation of the Earth. Something that I am very proud of but at the same time not related

Gladly, but if you're still going to post inaccuracies about me, then I'll have to correct your absurdities. It'll be easier to forget about you once you stop posting such diatribe.

Its because if Tokyo gets 2020 then for North America to follow in 2024 would mean three straight Summer Olympics not in Europe. This is a scenario that is unlikely.

It's the perfect time to Madrid. After the riots in Brazil or Turkey. The IOC needs a safe bid. We are in difficult times and would be an example for the world the Olympics with low budget. Also Madrid is investing for the Olympic Games for 10 years ago....

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It's the perfect time to Madrid. After the riots in Brazil or Turkey. The IOC needs a safe bid. We are in difficult times and would be an example for the world the Olympics with low budget. Also Madrid is investing for the Olympic Games for 10 years ago....

I'd say it's more perfect for Tokyo. They haven't had the summer games in the past 22 years like Spain plus they have a higher evaluation and the Japanese economy is in better shape

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Each year, Madrid MTV Beach at Madrid Rio

"Noches de fuego" Fire nights at Madrid Rio (sorry the quality)

http://vimeo.com/23778784



Now yes: Madrid MTV Beach at Madrid Rio



Now yes: Madrid MTV Beach at Madrid Rio + MTV Toursm Spot

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It's the perfect time to Madrid. After the riots in Brazil or Turkey. The IOC needs a safe bid. We are in difficult times and would be an example for the world the Olympics with low budget. Also Madrid is investing for the Olympic Games for 10 years ago....

Wow, really?! How quickly you conveniently forget your own "riots" over there as recent as just a few months ago. And who's to say that they couldn't happen again if things don't improve there soon & then your government forces more austerity cuts. And then the people could easily point the finger at the money going towards the Olympics.

The IOC isn't looking for "an example of low budget" Games. They're looking for who has the best to offer. And ATM, thats not Madrid 2020. And if "we are in difficult times", the last thing you guys need to be doing is splurging on a big party that you really don't "need". If having the Olympics in such dire times is such a good thing, then why did Rome pull out? Surely it would've been good for them, too, then, right? But they did the responsible thing & refrained when the budget is tight.

Tokyo 2020 already has 4.5 Billion set aside for these Games. They're the capital of the third largest economy in the world & its a mega, global city. They have a sound plan & are a master at organizational skills. If the IOC is looking for a "safe bid", that only spells Tokyo 2020. It's as clear as day.

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The problem with newly emerging, very rabid supporters of Madrid's current bid, is that they were babies or kids when 1992 happened -- thus have very little perspective of history, and time passed, and this geopolitical background against which the Olympic Games are given out. It seems to be a concept less difficult to understand for the 35+ set.

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It's the perfect time to Madrid. After the riots in Brazil or Turkey. The IOC needs a safe bid. We are in difficult times and would be an example for the world the Olympics with low budget. Also Madrid is investing for the Olympic Games for 10 years ago....

Like FYI said before, don't make a case of intentional amnesia for your bid. Spain had recent riots for the current situation and the economical situation didn't make a lot of favors. Also, with the recent doping scandal there are making rejections for IOC voters. And finally Barcelona is still too recent. Finally, after checking all the news, I don't call Madrid a safe bid after all -And this opinion is shared with many here-

Look, I understand this is your city and want the SOG, but most of these new supporters tend to forget a lot of things. First and most important, this is a competition between THREE CITIES, and one of them -Japan- hasn't a SOG since 1964, the country is the third global economy and even with the recent economical crisis, they pull off a growth. Also, this city -Tokyo- is one of the most vibrant metropolis around the world.

I don't say MAdrid won't get a SOG, but right now is an uphill battle. Maybe after 1936 could have better chances

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I'm not from Madrid, although I lived there and have a special link with the city.

I'm not rabid, i'm just expecting and exciting. If this race is only for one or two, they could begining again only with those bids. ^_^

I'm allow to show you with links what Madrid is, giving more information, material and making this forum less boring. Could someone to do the same with Tokyo or Istambul? I would be very grateful.

and finally I expect from the others the same respect I give.

P.D.: the last thing has no age, like many others. ;)

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^that's what I think, too. Although Rols seems to think that it won't blow back as much on him as it would the Executive Board. But how will the voters view it? It's not like the other Executive Board had a hidden agenda like Juanito did.

I'd still say that his under-handed maneuvering, & causing such a huge uproar in the Wrestling community ain't gonna win the bid any favors. The IOC quickly changed their tune & at least give the sport the opportunity to return as soon as they announced the sport to be cut.

And then you also have the Operation Puerto in the background, too, along with all the other obstacles in their way. The odds just look so overwhelmingly against them that it's not even funny. They're just desperate to get the Games, & IDK if desperation is a virtue that the IOC necessarily admires. At least with a bid with so many cons, that is.

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^that's what I think, too. Although Rols seems to think that it won't blow back as much on him as it would the Executive Board. But how will the voters view it? It's not like the other Executive Board had a hidden agenda like Juanito did.

I'd still say that his under-handed maneuvering, & causing such a huge uproar in the Wrestling community ain't gonna win the bid any favors. The IOC quickly changed their tune & at least give the sport the opportunity to return as soon as they announced the sport to be cut.

And then you also have the Operation Puerto in the background, too, along with all the other obstacles in their way. The odds just look so overwhelmingly against them that it's not even funny. They're just desperate to get the Games, & IDK if desperation is a virtue that the IOC necessarily admires. At least with a bid with so many cons, that is.

"Hidden agenda"? More like it was his top job priority to do what he did as VP of the Modern Penthalon IF. He was also open in his campaigning for MP. if anything, he would have been negligent of his duties in his IF role NOT to do what he could to save it from the chop. And he wasn't the only voice pointing out MP's Olympic roots as the branchild of Baron de Coubertin.

And on the other side of the coin, I haven't seen any evidence (though I'm happy if any was presented) that he personally targetted wrestling to take the fall in MP's place. Ditto I can't recall any blame personally pointed at Juantio in all the media commentary and letter-writing after the wrestling decision was announced. Just about all of it was: "WTF is the IOC thinking?" or "What a stupid decision by the Exec Board". Apart from finger pointing at the IOC and the board, about the only other blame assigning I can recall reading was how the wrestling federation had been too complacent and hadn't done much at all to shore up their position - not that they were expecting to be in such a position, I suppose.

I still think in the wash-up from the sports decision, Juanito came out of it with with more respect of his abilities - stepping out finally from the shadow of his Papi - than as a villain.

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I'm sure the far majority on these forums know that Madrid is "capable" of hosting the Olympics. But that's really not the crux of the matter here. The real thing is why should Spain host again so soon after bigger countries like France, Germany & Italy haven't hosted a Summer Olympics in decades, & in France's case it'll at least be a full century. Not to mention the ones that haven't hosted yet.

Nothing against them, Madrid is a beautiful city & could host great Games, but their timing is off at this moment. Plus their arguments aren't really that compelling in this race. 2032 seems like a more appropriate time, spacing it further along from Barcelona & where things more than likely would have improved there by then to make a much better case. Personally, I think they should go for a Winter Olympics instead. They'd make a much more compelling option in that sense.

I'm shocked. Are France, Germany or Italy actually bidding? Does this mean that Madrid should wait until that all three decide to bid and elected host?

If Barcelona won in 1992 against Paris was because they had a better plan. If Beijing won in 2008 against Paris was because they had a better plan. If London beated Paris & Leipzig in 2012 was because they had a better plan. And so on. Keep on checking backwards.

I'm sorry, but it's not Madrid's fault if the other European Grands are offended and wanted to be awarded accordingly to their own grandeur.

And I'm Italian, don't get wrong.

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I'm shocked. Are France, Germany or Italy actually bidding? Does this mean that Madrid should wait until that all three decide to bid and elected host?

If Barcelona won in 1992 against Paris was because they had a better plan.

Yes, u have a point about the other cities NOT bidding. But in IOC and independent observers' minds, Madrid/Spain are shooting too high when other cities should come first. Madrid should time it right. Plus ....Barcelona won against Paris because the voting was manipulated vs. Paris. NOT everyone is so dumb or forgets so easily. Therefore, that rigging by Samaranch pere still leaves a bad taste in the mouth for some which now works against Madrid.

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Barcelona won against Paris because the voting was manipulated vs. Paris. NOT everyone is so dumb or forgets so easily.

We could say the same of London vs. Paris in 2012. Frenchies were the clear winners and, suddenly, all the hullaballoo about the so-called Seb Coe effect turned everything upside down. English magic? No. Lobbying. As usual.

I don't buy it: it is always what it interests the most, and clearly Paris have not awaken the enough interest in IOC members. If they keep on bidding they'll have it sometime. Maybe's Madrid thinking.

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We could say the same of London vs. Paris in 2012. Frenchies were the clear winners and, suddenly, all the hullaballoo about the so-called Seb Coe effect turned everything upside down. English magic? No. Lobbying. As usual.

Do u really think people are stupid? After 1988, votes for Summer & Winter Games are HELD separately. That includes the 2005 vote for the 2012 Summer Games. So unlike the simultaneous picks for 1992-- when Samaranch had the Winter voting first so Albertville could win and thereby preempt Paris out of the Summer slot, this move could not have been possible in the 2005 vote. U claim u r Italian; yet u play blind to that the most Machiavellian of schemes. Clearly, u r disingenuous.

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Do u really think people are stupid? After 1988, votes for Summer & Winter Games are HELD separately. That includes the 2005 vote for the 2012 Summer Games. So unlike the simultaneous picks for 1992-- when Samaranch had the Winter voting first so Albertville could win and thereby preempt Paris out of the Summer slot, this move could not have been possible in the 2005 vote. U claim u r Italian; yet u play blind to that the most Machiavellian of schemes. Clearly, u r disingenuous.

Ok, even if it was that way (and surely it was): first, Samaranch is joyfully dead and therefore the bad taste of mouth could be gone with him. Maybe it has been the reason not to award Madrid in 2005 and 2009. Ok, fair enough.

But, my main point: Madrid can't be punished because Paris, Rome and Berlin have proudly rejected to bid. And you know it. Possibly Tokyo will win and then Madrid will need to bid against Paris, Rome, Berlin or even Vatican City or any other crazy option in the 100% European 2024 games. And in that scenario Paris will be finally rewarded. But it's Madrid the one on the race right now. And that's a fact.

Do u really think people are stupid? After 1988, votes for Summer & Winter Games are HELD separately. That includes the 2005 vote for the 2012 Summer Games. So unlike the simultaneous picks for 1992-- when Samaranch had the Winter voting first so Albertville could win and thereby preempt Paris out of the Summer slot, this move could not have been possible in the 2005 vote. U claim u r Italian; yet u play blind to that the most Machiavellian of schemes. Clearly, u r disingenuous.

And, by the way, there were many other votings where Italy, Germany and France were defeated. Not just the 1986 one.

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But it's Madrid the one on the race right now. And that's a fact.

And, by the way, there were many other votings where Italy, Germany and France were defeated. Not just the 1986 one.

Madrid, too, is my candidate but I am also a realist in that I can see and evaluate that Tokyo (which I don't like) is really the stronger candidate this time.

OK, u say, Madrid is running in this one. Then why do u bring up the other votes where Italy, Germany & France didn't win? Esto no calcula.

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I'm sure I didn't explain myself clearly enough. If I bring those votings back is because you just chose the 1986 as a Samaranch manipulation that set Paris aside. My point is... what happened all the other votings where Beijing, London, Athens and Sydney (not to go further past) defeated Italy, Germany and France? I mean: I agree that cities such as Paris do deserve the games and will get it sooner or later, but since 1960 they haven't made it. Why is it Madrid's fault to pay? I know you didn't say it, but I was shocked about reading that they deserved the Games before Madrid. Well, they'd deserve it only if they bid indeed. And they have prefered not to. It's their own decision. Madrid's one is to bid three times in a row. They are surely waiting for something.

Anyway, I do agree with you again: I can't see Madrid winning in September, because I see no reason for Tokyo to be despised, unless it has been city host already and Madrid doesn't.

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If Barcelona won in 1992 against Paris was because they had a better plan. If Beijing won in 2008 against Paris was because they had a better plan. If London beated Paris & Leipzig in 2012 was because they had a better plan. And so on. Keep on checking backwards.

Clearly, it looks like you need to familiarize yourself a lot more with the bidding process. For 1992, Barcelona was the Hometown of then IOC president JAS. So he "lobbied" hard for his city to get the Games. And was stealthy enough to get Albertville, France the 1992 Winter edition so as to sideswipe Paris for the 1992 Summer Games. Plus, Paris being pretty arrogant (that "this is De Courtebin's city & we deserve the Games") most likely didn't help their case much.

And Paris lost to Beijing bcuz China had the bid to beat to begin with. The IOC couldn't ignore 1/5 of humanity again, like they did back in 1993 for the 2000 Games. And please, let's get serious, shall we. Leipzig was never a real contender for starters. The Germans were foolish & naive if they thought that they were gonna win with a smaller, lesser-known city against the likes of the other Major European Capitals for 2012.

And sure, Berlin, Paris & Rome aren't bidding right now, but who's to say that they won't want to for 2024. And that could be the Achilles heel against the Spanish bid. With members from those respecitve countries trying to secretly 'lobby' for a chance to bid the next time around. Since obviously, a European win for 2020 blocks all of them. And since only three credible bids turned out for 2020, the IOC might want to have more viable options next time around so that they have a much easier time picking a bid than the particular conundrum that they find themselves in this race.

*Second paragraph edit: Not to mention that Athens had the 2004 Games scheduled, so back-to-back European Summer Games was extremely unlikely.

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And that could be the Achilles heel against the Spanish bid. With members from those respecitve countries trying to secretly 'lobby' for a chance to bid the next time around. .

Could be the Achilles heel? It is indeed. As you would have surely read, I also wrote that Madrid won't win in 2024 against all the other ones. Therefore they decided to bid in 2020 because it was more feasible to them... and maybe also a European 2020 will deliver shiny games to America or Asia in 2024, so that's why maybe several votes will go for Europe in 2020.

Anyway, as long as I have read you in this forums since 2005, you have been continuously biased against Madrid, so no news on your opinion. I just wanted to remark that Madrid can't be vilified nor punished for bidding while others have decided freely not to. Paris deserve the games the same or even more than Madrid, but arrogance is not a plus, and I find it quite arrogant to say they will not bid "for a long time" after 2012 defeat. Also, Germany took a chance on Leipzig because they were not confident themselves about Berlin support. Rome just set itself aside because, in my opinion, was the humblest one. But all of them were own decisions... and Madrid has nothing to do with it.

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and maybe also a European 2020 will deliver shiny games to America or Asia in 2024, so that's why maybe several votes will go for Europe in 2020.

Anyway, as long as I have read you in this forums since 2005, you have been continuously biased against Madrid, so no news on your opinion.

Well, the chance to 'deliver shiny games to Asia' is now for 2020, & would open the door to more, credible bids for the IOC to chose from for 2024. Plus, Tokyo has an excellent plan that's been reinforced by the Evaluation Commission Report.

And I'm not 'biased' against Madrid, & it's not just my 'opinion'. Many here share the same sentiment, & even the media hardly registers Madrid in this race. I'm being objective & a realist. Perhaps you're the one that's being biased here. You claim you're Italian, but yet you so vehemently argue for a candidate that could postpone an Italian Games for quite some time. I don't think that I buy your claim.

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Well, the chance to 'deliver shiny games to Asia' is now for 2020, & would open the door to more, credible bids for the IOC to chose from for 2024. Plus, Tokyo has an excellent plan that's been reinforced by the Evaluation Commission Report.

And I'm not 'biased' against Madrid, & it's not just my 'opinion'. Many here share the same sentiment, & even the media hardly registers Madrid in this race. I'm being objective & a realist. Perhaps you're the one that's being biased here. You claim you're Italian, but yet you so vehemently argue for a candidate that could postpone an Italian Games for quite some time. I don't think that I buy your claim.

I already had Torino, and felt the Olympic experience quite enough, but you can think whatever you want. I really don't care :-)

Madrid is been hardly registered in 2012 race trying to swim between all that world-class cities but made 3rd round. Then in 2016 was not European time but Chicago and Tokyo fell before Madrid. And now in this race is not news that again has been forgotten. I wonder what will you say the day when Madrid becomes finally awarded: "there wasn't a better option", maybe.

Anyway, greetings to you. I don't want to argue.

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