Treo Posted July 9, 2013 Report Share Posted July 9, 2013 An also IYHO, who do you think will be the best bet for all the IOC to vote for in the last round? I think that this would somehow be a quite uneventful voting if Madrid and Tokyo advance to the second round; surely the IOC members will be relaxed enough to know that the games will be guaranteed, so it would all be a matter of lobbying and national interests, America and Africa voting for the European bid, Europe and part of Asia voting for the Asian bid, and a long etcetera. For me, the option that aroused the most interest is Istanbul, a Turkish/muslim games would surely be interesting and exciting enough, however I would be quite pleased with Madrid or Tokyo winning, both would be interesting and nice options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinderella Posted July 9, 2013 Report Share Posted July 9, 2013 I think that this would somehow be a quite uneventful voting if Madrid and Tokyo advance to the second round; surely the IOC members will be relaxed enough to know that the games will be guaranteed, so it would all be a matter of lobbying and national interests, America and Africa voting for the European bid, Europe and part of Asia voting for the Asian bid, and a long etcetera. For me, the option that aroused the most interest is Istanbul, a Turkish/muslim games would surely be interesting and exciting enough, however I would be quite pleased with Madrid or Tokyo winning, both would be interesting and nice options. I'd love to see Istanbul hosting someday. And I was sad last month when I saw the city losing the momentum so quickly. But I like to imagine I can dive into that dark IOC minds and in that Madrid-Tokyo final round scenario, I must confess I have not a single clue which one will be the prefered. A European 2024 including Paris, Berlin & Rome bid will definitely send North America straight to 2028... 32 years later than Atlanta. I can't see the USA nor the IOC going away from home so long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Rols Posted July 9, 2013 Report Share Posted July 9, 2013 A low cost Games in times of global crisis can be an X-factor. Actually, I do think that world events of recent months have played into Madrid's hands and this could very well be a pitch the IOC would be open to this time around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olympic Fan Darcy Posted July 9, 2013 Report Share Posted July 9, 2013 I thought Athens was the home not USA.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barcelona_'92 Posted July 9, 2013 Report Share Posted July 9, 2013 I think that this would somehow be a quite uneventful voting if Madrid and Tokyo advance to the second round; surely the IOC members will be relaxed enough to know that the games will be guaranteed, so it would all be a matter of lobbying and national interests, America and Africa voting for the European bid, Europe and part of Asia voting for the Asian bid, and a long etcetera. I'm not sure how much support Tokyo will have from the other Asian members. Japan is not well-liked throughout much of Asia, and I have a hard time seeing the Chinese or Korean members supporting a Japanese bid. I do agree that neither Tokyo nor Madrid incites much excitement in this race, so I think that perhaps more than usual, if the race comes down to those two cities, the vote will be more about setting up the rest of the 20s than about the cities themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinderella Posted July 9, 2013 Report Share Posted July 9, 2013 I thought Athens was the home not USA.... It was just a way of saying that USA & IOC need each other quite frequently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted July 9, 2013 Report Share Posted July 9, 2013 I'm not sure how much support Tokyo will have from the other Asian members. Japan is not well-liked throughout much of Asia, and I have a hard time seeing the Chinese or Korean members supporting a Japanese bid. Many said the same about the South Koreans, & yet PyeongChang won 2018 by a landslide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reindeer Posted July 10, 2013 Report Share Posted July 10, 2013 R u serious? Uhmmm...Athens, Greece is the home of the Olympics. What is Madrid the home of? Aside from Isabel Preysler, bullfights and the Prado, what is so important that it must be held in Madrid in July and August? Istanbul has the strong winds of the Bosphorus and Tokyo is much cooler in the summer than Madrid caliente!! Istanbul is probably somewhat more comfortable but Tokyo?? It's humid as steam in summer, has torrential rains and the temperatures are not even cooler than in Madrid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bimbo87 Posted July 10, 2013 Report Share Posted July 10, 2013 I saw del IOC member list with the four new members and according to the relation between Spain and Russia, China-Spain and latinoamerican members I have to say that Tokyo will be eliminated in the first round. USA will vote for Madrid instead of Tokyo, because they want to bid for 2024. If Tokyo wins, Paris or Berlin could get the Games in 2024, so there will no chances for a LAX or NYC candidature. I have no doubts that most of european members will vote for Istanbul and other members such as Germans, French, Italians will vote for Tokyo, obviously. With that, Madrid and Istanbul will get more votes in the first round. I understand you don't see the Madrid chances, but when you think Tokyo is safer and better to host the Games than Madrid... IOC decided to vote for Rio when it was the poor candidature (all know that... with no accommodation, no security... and they won). NY, Moscow, Chicago, Tokyo fell over Madrid... Don't think what will better for Paris, Berlin in 2024... Think what it would be better for a city. Tokyo is a well-known city, rich and it is not necessary publicity of it. Istanbul would be perfect but...Rio is similar than Istanbul... The next Summer Olympic Games must have a plus in security and the chance to show an unknown city to the world such as Madrid. Madrid has never had an Olympic Games as Rome, Paris, Berlin, so I think they can wait for 2032 Madrid is not Barcelona, they are two different cities. Madrid is as big as Rome, Berlin, London... why do you say it is not our time??? Those are very known cities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinderella Posted July 10, 2013 Report Share Posted July 10, 2013 I saw del IOC member list with the four new members and according to the relation between Spain and Russia, China-Spain and latinoamerican members I have to say that Tokyo will be eliminated in the first round. USA will vote for Madrid instead of Tokyo, because they want to bid for 2024. If Tokyo wins, Paris or Berlin could get the Games in 2024, so there will no chances for a LAX or NYC candidature. I have no doubts that most of european members will vote for Istanbul and other members such as Germans, French, Italians will vote for Tokyo, obviously. With that, Madrid and Istanbul will get more votes in the first round. I understand you don't see the Madrid chances, but when you think Tokyo is safer and better to host the Games than Madrid... IOC decided to vote for Rio when it was the poor candidature (all know that... with no accommodation, no security... and they won). NY, Moscow, Chicago, Tokyo fell over Madrid... Don't think what will better for Paris, Berlin in 2024... Think what it would be better for a city. Tokyo is a well-known city, rich and it is not necessary publicity of it. Istanbul would be perfect but...Rio is similar than Istanbul... The next Summer Olympic Games must have a plus in security and the chance to show an unknown city to the world such as Madrid. Madrid has never had an Olympic Games as Rome, Paris, Berlin, so I think they can wait for 2032 Madrid is not Barcelona, they are two different cities. Madrid is as big as Rome, Berlin, London... why do you say it is not our time??? Those are very known cities. Hey Bimbo. Tokyo falling the first is extremely unlikely. Although I understand and somehow share your point of view, it's actually not about being a second-row city. If the city can build a big merchandise Olympic empire, it would be preferably awarded. That's why Rio was chosen, for example. Any major city in the world is able to host the games if it guarantees the money, so Rio is just as great as any other spot to host the Games, as it will surely show three years ahead. Therefore Tokyo and Istanbul are more attractive to the IOC, because they're both iconic cities and Madrid is not on the same level. At least, this is what defend many people here and I can see their point. Moreover, a mid-size country as Spain has hosted just 28 years ago (in 2020), and there's no need to come back so soon. However, I really do expect a final loop and see Madrid winning because it really deserves it. I do not know any other city so dedicated to sports as Madrid is and, in this race, is the only bid that has been tirelessly fighting with illusion to get the Games. We'll need to cross fingers... and something more. But hope's the last thing to lose! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treo Posted July 10, 2013 Report Share Posted July 10, 2013 It's not only thinking about how good the olympics would be for any particular city, it is about thinking what this city can do for the olympics as well and what it can offer. The OG are the surely the most pretigious event there is, and every city should add something new and fresh to the movement; for example, imagine that for 2030 Manchester (no offence to anyone from Manchester here, it's only supposition) bid for the olympics, well, they would most surely pull off nice and safe games, but they would not add something new, we've already seen the games in England quite a few times, so... yeah, nice changes and infrastructure for the city, but thats basically it, if you know what I mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinderella Posted July 10, 2013 Report Share Posted July 10, 2013 It's not only thinking about how good the olympics would be for any particular city, it is about thinking what this city can do for the olympics as well and what it can offer. The OG are the surely the most pretigious event there is, and every city should add something new and fresh to the movement; for example, imagine that for 2030 Manchester (no offence to anyone from Manchester here, it's only supposition) bid for the olympics, well, they would most surely pull off nice and safe games, but they would not add something new, we've already seen the games in England quite a few times, so... yeah, nice changes and infrastructure for the city, but thats basically it, if you know what I mean. I see your point and I agree, but maybe there's a global unknowlegde about Madrid as an X-factor city. It could astonish many, many people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treo Posted July 10, 2013 Report Share Posted July 10, 2013 I see your point and I agree, but maybe there's a global unknowlegde about Madrid as an X-factor city. It could astonish many, many people. I've been to Madrid several times and I think it is a wonderful city, clean, pleasant, vibrant and very much alive, it's an astonishingly energic city, and yeah, if it organized the games, it would surely wow the world. However it seems that they have had a hard time exposing this to the IOC both in 2012 and 2016, their bids were quite plain, much too technical presentations and approaches, the IOC likes to be told stories; if this time around they can convince the IOC of what they have to offer and come up with a nice story, they would surely win the games. If they play their "recovery from crisis and illuminating the future" card well, they might just win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinderella Posted July 10, 2013 Report Share Posted July 10, 2013 I've been to Madrid several times and I think it is a wonderful city, clean, pleasant, vibrant and very much alive, it's an astonishingly energic city, and yeah, if it organized the games, it would surely wow the world. However it seems that they have had a hard time exposing this to the IOC both in 2012 and 2016, their bids were quite plain, much too technical presentations and approaches, the IOC likes to be told stories; if this time around they can convince the IOC of what they have to offer and come up with a nice story, they would surely win the games. If they play their "recovery from crisis and illuminating the future" card well, they might just win. Not sure if they have the best team for that... but let's hope it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted July 10, 2013 Report Share Posted July 10, 2013 I see your point and I agree, but maybe there's a global unknowlegde about Madrid as an X-factor city. It could astonish many, many people. Well, maybe Madrid is really just a B-city and only a handful of people are pushing it higher than it should be, no??? It's OK by me...but it's no Paris or Amsterdam or Barcelona. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amarillo Posted July 10, 2013 Report Share Posted July 10, 2013 Well...., if you consider Madrid as a B-city, probabably you should have to consider Amsterdam and Barcelona C-cities Of course Madrid can't be compared with London, or Paris, but i think that it has all the ingredients, to make an unforgettable spectacle!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krow Posted July 10, 2013 Report Share Posted July 10, 2013 I saw del IOC member list with the four new members and according to the relation between Spain and Russia, China-Spain and latinoamerican members I have to say that Tokyo will be eliminated in the first round. USA will vote for Madrid instead of Tokyo, because they want to bid for 2024. If Tokyo wins, Paris or Berlin could get the Games in 2024, so there will no chances for a LAX or NYC candidature. I have no doubts that most of european members will vote for Istanbul and other members such as Germans, French, Italians will vote for Tokyo, obviously. i'm sorry but couldn't this strategy of the US voting for madrid backfire in the form of a strong asian bid for 2024? a jilted tokyo against mediocre LA and african bids? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treo Posted July 10, 2013 Report Share Posted July 10, 2013 i'm sorry but couldn't this strategy of the US voting for madrid backfire in the form of a strong asian bid for 2024? a jilted tokyo against mediocre LA and african bids? Well, I agree with you that being rejected twice would boost Tokyo if they also bid for 2024, becoming a newer, and stronger bid for 2024. However, if Tokyo was chosen for 2024, then the US bid would be running against not one, but three formidable bidders from Paris, Rome or even Berlin, while the only serious bidder from Asian might still be Tokyo. The US votes and lobbying would come down to the decision of the USOC on whether they prefer an Asia-free race or an Europe-free race to make their bidding more pleasant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinderella Posted July 10, 2013 Report Share Posted July 10, 2013 Well, maybe Madrid is really just a B-city and only a handful of people are pushing it higher than it should be, no??? It's OK by me...but it's no Paris or Amsterdam or Barcelona. You are a B-fan of Madrid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted July 10, 2013 Report Share Posted July 10, 2013 Well, I agree with you that being rejected twice would boost Tokyo if they also bid for 2024, becoming a newer, and stronger bid for 2024. However, if Tokyo was chosen for 2024, then the US bid would be running against not one, but three formidable bidders from Paris, Rome or even Berlin, while the only serious bidder from Asian might still be Tokyo. The US votes and lobbying would come down to the decision of the USOC on whether they prefer an Asia-free race or an Europe-free race to make their bidding more pleasant. He also mentioned African bids. So a U.S. 2024 bid would still have to face several opponents in a Europe-free race. Not to mention that Doha & Dubai (also located in Asia) would also likely raised their hands. And even though Tokyo mentioned that they weren't bidding again if they lost 2020, I can perhaps see them changing their tune if they wouldn't have to contend with Europe. Same goes for South Africa. They're still being iffy, but if Europe is outta the way, they'd probably be more gung-ho about entering 2024. So I don't necessarily see how Europe being outta the way helps a U.S. 2024 bid like some here are suggesting. On the contrary, I see that 2024 could be just as competitive, if not moreso, even without Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted July 10, 2013 Report Share Posted July 10, 2013 It's not only thinking about how good the olympics would be for any particular city, it is about thinking what this city can do for the olympics as well and what it can offer. The OG are the surely the most pretigious event there is, and every city should add something new and fresh to the movement; for example, imagine that for 2030 Manchester (no offence to anyone from Manchester here, it's only supposition) bid for the olympics, well, they would most surely pull off nice and safe games, but they would not add something new, we've already seen the games in England quite a few times, so... yeah, nice changes and infrastructure for the city, but thats basically it, if you know what I mean. Exactly. And that's what most in this thread don't understand. It's been a topic of discussion before, but the Olympics are a rare event, & therefore each edition should be that much more special. But when's one narrative is all about "look at what the Olympics can do for our city", & not what our city can do for the Olympics, then it's not compelling. There's only one candidate in this race that offers that, but if they're not strong enough in the other areas, then it needs to go to the next candidate that offers the most to the movement. And that would be the one where the sun shines first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treo Posted July 10, 2013 Report Share Posted July 10, 2013 He also mentioned African bids. So a U.S. 2024 bid would still have to face several opponents in a Europe-free race. Not to mention that Doha & Dubai (also located in Asia) would also likely raised their hands. And even though Tokyo mentioned that they weren't bidding again if they lost 2020, I can perhaps see them changing their tune if they wouldn't have to contend with Europe. Same goes for South Africa. They're still being iffy, but if Europe is outta the way, they'd probably be more gung-ho about entering 2024. So I don't necessarily see how Europe being outta the way helps a U.S. 2024 bid like some here are suggesting. On the contrary, I see that 2024 could be just as competitive, if not moreso, even without Europe. I agree with you; you've a really good point, I had not seen it that way but that is completely feasible as well. The 2024 race will be much more thrilling than this bore of 2020...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelinternational Posted July 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2013 Madrid has changed a lot the last 15 years in all senses, now is completely different. The ambient and its spirit is incredible. 2024 will be a great battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelinternational Posted July 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2013 Well...., if you consider Madrid as a B-city, probabably you should have to consider Amsterdam and Barcelona C-cities Of course Madrid can't be compared with London, or Paris, but i think that it has all the ingredients, to make an unforgettable spectacle!! I agree with you. But always seems that size is important, and I think it is only another factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krow Posted July 10, 2013 Report Share Posted July 10, 2013 I agree with you; you've a really good point, I had not seen it that way but that is completely feasible as well. The 2024 race will be much more thrilling than this bore of 2020...! 2024 was always being set up to be a thrill fest. the funny thing is that 2020 is still every bit as much an olympics as 2024 but no one seemed to want it very much besides tokyo and our perennial candidates, who both likely have exploratory committees already looking at 2044. too bad about all its pride, because paris should really be in this race. an uninspired tokyo bid and two cities in countries that the media loves to paint as days away from slipping into the abyss. the real thrill of 2020 is the every-trick-in-the-book lobbying that madrid is surely pulling out right about now to give themselves this sort of 50/50 shot no one could have predicted. they're going to stop letting prince filipe sleep at night pretty soon in favor of just propping him up a la weekend at bernies to make the rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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