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gromit

Will a Munich 2022 bid be favourite?

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Today I received the election notification for the referendum, so it's getting serious :-)

Again, local forums in Munich are in huge majority negative, but I guess most people don't care - which is probably the big question mark: How to mobilise support which surely exists?

Main criticism is about the Games making Munich even more expensive than it is, and that you cannot trust the IOC and its "blackmailing" contracts. This time not so much on environmental issues, probably because there is less need for construction in the mountains than in the 2018 bid.

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http://www.zdfsport.de/Aus-Fehlern-gelernt-30097170.html

seems like this time it is much calmer in GAP, since the 2022 concept learned from the Mistakes they made in her 2018 bid

and they hope for a better result in the poll as for the 2018 poll

I can't read German, but I never felt Munich's bid for 2018 was a 'mistake'. They had a lot going for them. But...it just wasn't their time. The Koreans had worked very very very hard for almost 10 years to plead their case and improve their bid. And while I was critical of their bid in the past, they did what was required of them and 2018 was just their time. The IOC couldn't say 'no' to that.

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I can't read German, but I never felt Munich's bid for 2018 was a 'mistake'. They had a lot going for them. But...it just wasn't their time. The Koreans had worked very very very hard for almost 10 years to plead their case and improve their bid. And while I was critical of their bid in the past, they did what was required of them and 2018 was just their time. The IOC couldn't say 'no' to that.

And I don't know if Katerina Witt resonates as much with the IOC'ers of 2 years ago as the more feminine and reigning world champion Yuna Kim plus that wonder-speaker, the Toby guy, who just spoke in such a simpatico manner at PC's presentation.

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I guess the "mistakes" refer more to certain behaviour towards Garmisch landowners by their mayor or other bid officials, which clearly contributed to a tense atmosphere locally and casted a shadow on the bid as such.

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I guess the "mistakes" refer more to certain behaviour towards Garmisch landowners by their mayor or other bid officials, which clearly contributed to a tense atmosphere locally and casted a shadow on the bid as such.

right - because it seems the atmosphere is much better in GAP now

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Today I received the election notification for the referendum, so it's getting serious :-)

Again, local forums in Munich are in huge majority negative, but I guess most people don't care - which is probably the big question mark: How to mobilise support which surely exists?

Main criticism is about the Games making Munich even more expensive than it is, and that you cannot trust the IOC and its "blackmailing" contracts. This time not so much on environmental issues, probably because there is less need for construction in the mountains than in the 2018 bid.

thats why i still fear a NO from Munich - i´m not worried about the 3 other

the problem is, the No Voters will go for sure, but the People who don´t care and even some of the YES voters might stay home

thats why i had prefered a Referendum at the same date as the Bavarian Election

a NO from Munich would also be a bad sign for any Future German Olympic Dreams

even when Munich would vote YES, it wouldn´t be a guarantee to win the Race

but it would be a sign to IOC that Germany is serious with hosting the Olympics once in the near future

and another lost Munich bid could also bring some "consolation votes" in a future SOG Ballot

but a NO from Munich would sent the worst possible sign to the IOC

i may sound really pessimistic, but a NO from Munich gonna end not just the Dreams of Munich hosting the WOG 2022

it would also end the Dreams of hosting SummerGames

How to expect public support for SOG in cities like Berlin and Hamburg when Munich refuse much cheaper WinterGames

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A majority of the members of the Bavarian Parliament has said today, they will support the bid, if the referedum will be positive. Only the Greens have said, they are against a possible bid.

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Getting a negative vibe just a week ahead of the referendum: Comments under newspaper or FB articles are almost all negative - if the NO campaign is a minority, it certainly knows how to mobilise. This may be crucial next sunday as I feel most people woukd probably like to have the Games but can't be bothered to vote, despite the ever-present Yes campaign posters, now including testimonials from well-known Olympic/Paralympic champions Markus Wasmeier, Georg Hackl, Maria Höfl-Riesch and Verena Bentele.

If Munich, just like Switzerland, votes No, I wonder if the IOC starts reflecting why perfectly capable potential hosts shy away from wanting the Games...in the limited field of potential WOG hosts, this could be a problem in the long run.

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If Munich, just like Switzerland, votes No, I wonder if the IOC starts reflecting why perfectly capable potential hosts shy away from wanting the Games...in the limited field of potential WOG hosts, this could be a problem in the long run.

Excellent point. If people vote no it should set serious alarm bells ringing for the IOC.

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Getting a negative vibe just a week ahead of the referendum: Comments under newspaper or FB articles are almost all negative - if the NO campaign is a minority, it certainly knows how to mobilise. This may be crucial next sunday as I feel most people woukd probably like to have the Games but can't be bothered to vote, despite the ever-present Yes campaign posters, now including testimonials from well-known Olympic/Paralympic champions Markus Wasmeier, Georg Hackl, Maria Höfl-Riesch and Verena Bentele.

If Munich, just like Switzerland, votes No, I wonder if the IOC starts reflecting why perfectly capable potential hosts shy away from wanting the Games...in the limited field of potential WOG hosts, this could be a problem in the long run.

I've often wondered the point of taking an idea to the people. Isn't that what the elected politicians are for ? To make decisions on behalf of people? I can't understand a referendum for larger issues (like here in Australia- for becoming a Republic) but more often than not here and elsewhere the outcome is often negative.

I think if Sydney had run a referendum back in the early 90s over if it should bid- there might not have been a 2000 Olympics.

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Getting a negative vibe just a week ahead of the referendum: Comments under newspaper or FB articles are almost all negative - if the NO campaign is a minority, it certainly knows how to mobilise. This may be crucial next sunday as I feel most people woukd probably like to have the Games but can't be bothered to vote, despite the ever-present Yes campaign posters, now including testimonials from well-known Olympic/Paralympic champions Markus Wasmeier, Georg Hackl, Maria Höfl-Riesch and Verena Bentele.

If Munich, just like Switzerland, votes No, I wonder if the IOC starts reflecting why perfectly capable potential hosts shy away from wanting the Games...in the limited field of potential WOG hosts, this could be a problem in the long run.

ot would be typcially german

they just see the costs, and not the positive influence for the economy

and i said many weeks before that i fear a NO

because the YES voters gonna stay home

it was not a smart move to hold this referendum on a special day and not on the general State-Election date as well

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In general, it's the no-voters who bother to "get the vote out", & the yes-voters who are more likely to stay at home. You only need to look at the electoral system referendum that we had in the UK in 2011. The only time I can see that reversed is in the Scottish vote next year. I really do think that when we get results next week, they won't be what we want to hear. :(

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ot would be typcially german

they just see the costs, and not the positive influence for the economy

and i said many weeks before that i fear a NO

because the YES voters gonna stay home

it was not a smart move to hold this referendum on a special day and not on the general State-Election date as well

I wondered myself why they didn't do it at the Bavarian elections or at the Federal elections in september...

I am a little bit more optimistic that we will see a YES in the referendum - and I agree with StefanMUC's point of view that the IOC will get into problems if there is a NO

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Well, the IOC wouldn't have an immediate problem since Oslo will be in the mix, but a further reduction of potential WOG hosts cannot be in their interest.

But hey, maybe I'm just too pessimistic, the referendum passes and we'll see Munich in the race too after all.

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I've often wondered the point of taking an idea to the people. Isn't that what the elected politicians are for ? To make decisions on behalf of people? I can't understand a referendum for larger issues (like here in Australia- for becoming a Republic) but more often than not here and elsewhere the outcome is often negative.

I think if Sydney had run a referendum back in the early 90s over if it should bid- there might not have been a 2000 Olympics.

Ditto London in 2003. Support only really solidified toward the end of the bid campaign once things started to feel real.

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I wondered myself why they didn't do it at the Bavarian elections or at the Federal elections in september...

I am a little bit more optimistic that we will see a YES in the referendum - and I agree with StefanMUC's point of view that the IOC will get into problems if there is a NO

why? as long they have Candidates like Oslo there is no problem for the IOC

i also really facepalm about the double-standards of the German Media

once they like to bash the IOC for going to SouthKorea or Sochi, but on the other hand they are not really helpfull to promote the idea of WinterGames in Munich

they always come up with the special "no Tax" rule for the IOC etc. etc.

even my local newspaper had a comment about the Referendum, and 90% of the comment was listing the negative impact and the bad contracts the IOC force the host cities to sign

but then the last sentence was like "but in the end Munich shouldn´t miss the historic chance to become the first host city of Summer and Winter Games

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Why?

Well, you gave reasons yourself already:

If even small papers pick on the IOC contracts and all kinds of negative impacts, then why should anyone be surprised that the public opinion at least in several pluralist societies in Western Europe is not embracing the idea of hosting the Games with open arms anymore.

You may call it double-standards by the media, probably true. But at the same time, if people aren't convinced it's the right thing to do, they won't be convinced by a media campaign trying to promote a bid. The concerns raised by anti-bid organisations in various cities should be taken more seriously by the IOC and not just brushed aside as in the past.

Also, as I said before, it's not an immediate problem with Oslo in the mix, but should Munich say NO, there will probably not be a German WOG bid again for a long time to come, if ever. This would remove Germany from a not-too-long list of potential WOG hosts. Switzerland seems to have removed itself already too, judging by the Bern and Graubünden referendum losses in recent campaigns, and Austria doesn't seem keen either anymore after Salzburg's defeats. The refusal of a 2028 bid in a Vienna referendum recently may not be directly related to WOGs, but must be an indicator about the overall mood in Austria.

For Europe, this leaves the ones we now have in the running like Krakow and Lviv, both at least for now with high risks, then Scandinavia (aka Norway, plus Sweden if the Are/Stockholm distance is ignored), some French or Italian cities which might have a go if their country's SOG bid attempts fail - or even daydreaming Barcelona. Not to mention the Balkans which really should have other, political and/or economical worries than Olympic bids. And not to forget that the Oslo referendum was also for a long time looking like a NO, which could have made the 2022 race even more of a choice between the least of evils than was the 2020 race.

If the IOC can live with such a future selection of hosts, fine, but I think they would really love more "safe" options, especially from the Alps in coming bid cycles. So there might well be people in Lausanne lighting candles every day for a Munich YES, if only to make it a real competition and not just Oslo vs the rest. Would also not exactly be a thrilling prospect for Thomas Bach to have an anti-Olympics result in his home country just a few weeks into his reign.

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i see your point

But FIFA is doing the same contracts, and the negative comments durring the german WC bid for 2006, where have they been?

When it´s about Football such contracts are okay for the media/society but not when it comes toward the olympics?

But at the same time, if people aren't convinced it's the right thing to do, they won't be convinced by a media campaign trying to promote a bid.

i don´t want the media to manipulate the people,

but they should encourage the people a bit more to go to the referendum at all

because i think we would have a YES if we would get a participation of 70%

German People love to go to sport events, but are they willing to move her ass on Sunday?

IMO a low participation on the referendum is the biggest Weapon of the NOlympia campaign

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i see your point

But FIFA is doing the same contracts, and the negative comments durring the german WC bid for 2006, where have they been?

When it´s about Football such contracts are okay for the media/society but not when it comes toward the olympics?

IMO a low participation on the referendum is the biggest Weapon of the NOlympia campaign

Very much agree on both - I've yet to see a negative comment about Munich's bid for the EURO 2020 semi/final package, or about Germany's bid for EURO 2024...

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Well, Germany could host Euro 2024 tomorrow; it's virtually risk free with Germany's stadium stock. You can't be surprised at a near universal positive reaction to the Euros can you?

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And where's the risk in the 2022 Munich bid? Almost all venues are there too already...

Yet, point is that IOC and FIFA/UEFA do have similar policies for contracting host cities/countries, but the IOC comes under fire while the others not really. True, Sepp Blatter is not well-liked over here, but nobody would have really dismissed a WC/EURO bid by always citing these contracting issues...

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