Will a Munich 2022 bid be favourite?

[baron-pierreIV]

Pillan, those reqs are for a SUMMER Games per your question. Much less for a Winter. Yes, Stockholm can meet those needs but the other half of the WINTER coin is still 400km away. That simply will NOT fly.

[Pillan]

At the beginning I understand your anger defending your country, but right now, you sound a sore loser and this is disappointed after my excellent experience in Sweden.

Germany clearly DESERVES this games because:

1. Whatever you like or not, Germany is an sport power; especially related for WOG. So in case of medals, Germany wins

Vancouver: 2nd. place; Turin: 1st. place; Salt Lake City: 2nd. place; Nagano: 1st. place

2. Germany's population and influence in Europe is relevant

3. The last WOG was in 1936. Yes; Sweden only have 1912 SOG; but unfortunally Sweden is more a minor country. Even Russia will have the first WOG and China is expecting their Games.

4. we haven't the money to pay the corrupt IOC like Germany right - Oh, please. This is a lame excuse to justify your anger. After checking their excellent Olympic bid plan in 2018, Germany deserved that Olympic Games and again, relevance, history and power are in favor of Germany.

5. Again, 600 km. in Winter is a HUGE weakness. If Oslo needs to chance their original bid because of that, Sweden doesn't have many options.

Finally, if you are against of IOC corruption and bla bla excuses... Why are you angry in this post? Especially when you said countries will be ruined. Maybe you should make campaign for withadraw the swedish bid, because after all, it means loss of money.

Normally I don't make this assumption, but I really hope Munich wins

Sorry - I was trying to say: this is disappointing

I'm so disppointed about the attitude in this forum. So it is only the big countries who should be allowed to host OG? So Germany deserves WOG more than Sweden because it's bigger country? What kind of reason of that?? Some of you from the big countries are so F*****G ARROGANT!! If Germany should get it because 2018 loss then Sweden deserves it because all our losses. Sweden have more losses than Germany.

About medals: Oh no if so Norway should win. They are as big WOG country as Germany and they are only 4.5 millions compared to Germany's 80 millions.

What have influnce and power to do with this? Once again it this only for the biggest and richest countries? What kind of attitude is that?

Sorry, with that attitude I will NOT support a German bid! In fact I wil totally hate it!

[Quaker2001]

I'm so disppointed about the attitude in this forum. So it is only the big countries who should be allowed to host OG? So Germany deserves WOG more than Sweden because it's bigger country? What kind of reason of that?? Some of you from the big countries are so F*****G ARROGANT!! If Germany should get it because 2018 loss then Sweden deserves it because all our losses. Sweden have more losses than Germany.

About medals: Oh no if so Norway should win. They are as big WOG country as Germany and they are only 4.5 millions compared to Germany's 80 millions.

What have influnce and power to do with this? Once again it this only for the biggest and richest countries? What kind of attitude is that?

Sorry, with that attitude I will NOT support a German bid! In fact I wil totally hate it!

Why's that?.. because we're pointing out that the IOC is unlikely to overlook a major technical flaw in their bid plan that Stockholm/Are would present? We get that it's your hometown and you would like to see an Olympics there, but Germany and Munich can make a very compelling offer to the IOC. That's why they would get chosen over Stockholm. It's not arrogant.. it's called being realistic. Yes, Germany deserves an Olympics more than Sweden because it is a larger country and is more capable of supporting an Olympics. It's not to say that Sweden is incapable of supporting an Olympics, but the IOC has to make a choice. Given the options of either Germany or Sweden, I think they'd sooner pick Germany. And it's probably not just in this forum that people think that way

[intoronto]

And that's what's Stockholm will have 2022... Stockholm metropolitan have already now 2.135000. I can tell you that Sweden's transport system is SUPERIOR as example USA!! In Stockholm you can travel everywhere with metro, busses, trains! All Swedes who have been in USA and Canada complains about they needed to have CAR! They think North American infrastructur is TERRIBLE bad!

You need a car in Canada and the USA because the countries are huge! Sweden is 22X smaller then Canada.

[ofan]

Pillan, don't get so worked up over this. You had great opinions at first but now you are just whining.

[Roger87]

I'm so disppointed about the attitude in this forum. So it is only the big countries who should be allowed to host OG? So Germany deserves WOG more than Sweden because it's bigger country? What kind of reason of that?? Some of you from the big countries are so F*****G ARROGANT!! If Germany should get it because 2018 loss then Sweden deserves it because all our losses. Sweden have more losses than Germany.

About medals: Oh no if so Norway should win. They are as big WOG country as Germany and they are only 4.5 millions compared to Germany's 80 millions.

What have influnce and power to do with this? Once again it this only for the biggest and richest countries? What kind of attitude is that?

Sorry, with that attitude I will NOT support a German bid! In fact I wil totally hate it!

For Norway, you made an excellent point, history and power around the WOG. And next to that, the NOC is making a great bid plan around the specifications of the modern WOG; especially related to the distance (Not accepted Lillehammer) and having an excellent narrative.

About Sweden losses... So in your theory, countries like France (3 defeats), Turkey (5 defeats), Spain (2 consecutives losses with a third next in line), Hungary (5 bids) and Argentina (4 bids) will have more right to be angry than Sweden -Especially Hungary, Turkey and Argentina, which these countries didn't have Olympic Games instead of Sweden- . Right now, it's just whining.

So Germany deserves WOG more than Sweden because it's bigger country?

Maybe it's unfair, but Germany has the olympic story, the technical aspect, the resources, the population and the narrative in favor. And yes, Germany is a relevant country in the international sphere.

[Roger87]

And let me add this, if Norway will get the WOG, it's just because for two good reasons:

*An excellent narrative

*A great technical bid ajusted by the modern times

If Sweden is still making this plan of putting Stockholm/Are as a WOG, with contenders like Oslo, Barcelona and Munich, with better plans, it just a lost of money and time. Even with an excellent train system, it wouldn't be enough to surpass the geographical and technical obstacles. I would love to see a Swedish event of this proportions, but seriously, this plan is just ridiculous.

And that's what's Stockholm will have 2022... Stockholm metropolitan have already now 2.135000. I can tell you that Sweden's transport system is SUPERIOR as example USA!! In Stockholm you can travel everywhere with metro, busses, trains! All Swedes who have been in USA and Canada complains about they needed to have CAR! They think North American infrastructur is TERRIBLE bad!

Oh, please

[runningrings]

Would Ostersund still be a possibility today for Sweden? Stockholm leaves me feeling cold, it just seems impractical.

Although, it would be incredible to see a 2022 Winter bid race between Stockholm, Munich and Barcelona.

[FYI]

Ostersund is relatively small for a 21st century Winter Olympics. I said in another thread (or maybe is was this one) that their best (& last) shot was probably for the '94 Games.

Even with the neighboring, larger province that someone else tried to point out in the Stockholm/Are 2022 thread, it's still a relatively small populace for such a vast area. What would small Ostersund do with all those facilities post Games in such a vastly sparse area.

And I don't find Stockholm impratical at all for a Winter Olympics. Despite the distance to Are, Stockholm would make a fantastic backdrop for the Winter Games. Certainly all the Ice events could be held there. It's just a shame that they're so far away from the mountain resorts.

[Pillan]

Why's that?.. because we're pointing out that the IOC is unlikely to overlook a major technical flaw in their bid plan that Stockholm/Are would present? We get that it's your hometown and you would like to see an Olympics there, but Germany and Munich can make a very compelling offer to the IOC. That's why they would get chosen over Stockholm. It's not arrogant.. it's called being realistic. Yes, Germany deserves an Olympics more than Sweden because it is a larger country and is more capable of supporting an Olympics. It's not to say that Sweden is incapable of supporting an Olympics, but the IOC has to make a choice. Given the options of either Germany or Sweden, I think they'd sooner pick Germany. And it's probably not just in this forum that people think that way

Lol, then Sweden should have got the WOG 1994 instead of Norway right? We are a bigger country than Norway.

No Germany isn't more capable to host OG than Sweden. If Norway with 4.5 millions can host it then Sweden can do it too.. Germany don't deserve anything because they are bigger. If so should IOC bring up a rule that say no countries with less than 20 millions is allowed to host it? Why shall the smaller keep lose money on the promotions if they have no chances against the superpowers, mega-fantastic, the best country because wea are so big GERMANY?

Would Ostersund still be a possibility today for Sweden? Stockholm leaves me feeling cold, it just seems impractical.

Although, it would be incredible to see a 2022 Winter bid race between Stockholm, Munich and Barcelona.

Not today unless the Swedish goverment change their minds. They already said no to a Östersund bid to 2022.

[plusbrilliantsexploits]

Munik is a shoo-in were it not for Bach's presidency plans. He doesn't want it to win under the cloud that as IOC president, he manipulated its victory like a certain Catalan president rigged the elections of 1986 in favor of his hometown...while pretending to be above the fray. (Yeah. like that fooled anyone.) And we don't know at this point what pressure the Berlin and Hamburg partisans are exerting on the GOC to go for a Summer SOG before a Winter one.

Let's see whether Bach even manages to win the IOC presidency in the first place - unlike others, I'm not convinced that he is such a shoo-in for the position. But that's another topic.

I think times have changed since JAS, with reforms having been instituted in the wake of the Salt Lake scandal. Rogge, dour and dull as he may be, represented a clear break from Samaranch-style leadership and Bach would effectively be in the same mould, were he to be elected. With this in mind, I genuinely don't think the IOC will do a trade-off between a German president and a (comparatively) minor 2020 Winter Olympic Games (especially when compared to the bigger prize, the Summer Olympics): they care about the narrative, the technical scores and the discipline exhibited by the bid teams.

Baron, you make an excellent point about Berliners and Hamburgers trying to lobby on behalf of a Summer Games. But I just don't think it will be Germany's term just yet - given the "new frontier" Olympics, second Chinese Olympics and (obviously) another North American Olympics, we're looking at 2028 at the earliest for our country to host the Summer edition. Plus, the field is inevitably more crowded - the United States is waiting its turn for another Games, China wants its second bite in the apple, ditto for Latin America - and obviously cities like Paris aren't sleeping, either (an absolutely beautiful city, by the way - but they honestly need to crack down on street crime - although I was quite impressed by the military patrols at major landmarks, when I went there recently). Oh, and once the Indians do get their act together, trust them to put in an interesting bid too (admittedly, that may only happen in the 2030s or early 2040s). On the other hand, the effect of the economic crisis is the fact that Germany's economic strength does come into play even more effectively - combined with our sports heritage (including a powerful winter sports tradition), reputation for organizational efficiency (well, unless it comes to failed bids) and gap since the last Games on German soil may very well produce a winning bid for Hamburg (my favoured candidate) or Berlin.

Given the odds, it may be more prudent to go for the Winter Olympics in 2020 and have this feather in your cap when you present your application for 2028, 2032 or 2036. Just my two cents...

[Pillan]

You need a car in Canada and the USA because the countries are huge! Sweden is 22X smaller then Canada.

Now we are talking about a city not country. My friend traveled in LA two weeks. He said it was impossible to do that without car. Do you think Swedes are stupid? Of course we know USA and Canada are bigger than Sweden. But that's not why Swedes complain. They complain because Stockholm's infrastructur is SUPERIOR Los Angeles or vwhich any city in USA or Canada!

[Pillan]

Pillan, don't get so worked up over this. You had great opinions at first but now you are just whining.

Yes, and with all these arrogant people in this forum I have a VERY good reason to whining! How was it now? Germany deserve the WOG because they are a bigger country than Sweden? Hmmm so when we the new rule about how large a country need to be to host a WOG?? This would be so terrible if the big country with too much power and influence already should get the rights to host OG only. This is not the attitude that the worlds needs. Soon no one except China, Russia, France, UK, Germany, Spain and USA will be allowed to host the OG if IOC have the same kind of attitude as this forum. This would be absolutely terrible.

So NO I wouldn't support a German bid! I would totally hate it!

[Trylon]

I don't know a great deal about Stockholm, but why wouldn't it make a great location for an olympic winter games? Sweden is a peaceful, tolerant nation and their capital city is cultured, rich in history, environmentally friendly and beautiful. What a wonderful backdrop for an olympic games.

[baron-pierreIV]

this is like a circus House of Mirrors.

[runningrings]

Lol, then Sweden should have got the WOG 1994 instead of Norway right? We are a bigger country than Norway.

Hang on, aren't you the one who was just ridiculing the "arrogance" of other countries making claim to the Olympics based on their size - but now you use that as your only reason as to why Sweden was more deserving of 1994?

Pillan, you might be the most confusing thing to come out of Sweden since Ikea's instruction manuals.

Edited June 8, 2013 by runningrings

[baron-pierreIV]

She quickly forgets that Ostersund didn't get it for 1994 because they had one of their IOC members ascend to the Executive Committee (I forget his name right now)--which is precisely the thing Bach is hoping to avoid; AND at that voting in 1988, Sweden ticked off the then-USSR because they exposed the submarine incursions into Swedish waters. The Russkies paid them back by voting for Norway instead. How quickly Pillan forgets.

[Roger87]

Hang on, aren't you the one who was just ridiculing the "arrogance" of other countries making claim to the Olympics based on their size - but now you use that as your only reason as to why Sweden was more deserving of 1994?

Pillan, you might be the most confusing thing to come out of Sweden since Ikea's instruction manuals.

And the best part, Norway has a better track record in WOG alongside Germany. If it was for narrative and triumphs by the WOG, well Norway deserves it.

[FYI]

this is like a circus House of Mirrors.

lmfao

Hang on, aren't you the one who was just ridiculing the "arrogance" of other countries making claim to the Olympics based on their size - but now you use that as your only reason as to why Sweden was more deserving of 1994?

Pillan, you might be the most confusing thing to come out of Sweden since Ikea's instruction manuals.

No, I think that she was asking that rhetorically bcuz some that's the argument seemingly being presented to her. But I think that your second point still stands lol.

Yes, and with all these arrogant people in this forum I have a VERY good reason to whining! How was it now? Germany deserve the WOG because they are a bigger country than Sweden? Hmmm so when we the new rule about how large a country need to be to host a WOG?? This would be so terrible if the big country with too much power and influence already should get the rights to host OG only. This is not the attitude that the worlds needs. Soon no one except China, Russia, France, UK, Germany, Spain and USA will be allowed to host the OG if IOC have the same kind of attitude as this forum.

Yes, plllan. You're such a wise cookie. Nothing gets past you, lmfao.

[gromit]

Yes, and with all these arrogant people in this forum I have a VERY good reason to whining! How was it now? Germany deserve the WOG because they are a bigger country than Sweden? Hmmm so when we the new rule about how large a country need to be to host a WOG?? This would be so terrible if the big country with too much power and influence already should get the rights to host OG only. This is not the attitude that the worlds needs. Soon no one except China, Russia, France, UK, Germany, Spain and USA will be allowed to host the OG if IOC have the same kind of attitude as this forum. This would be absolutely terrible.

So NO I wouldn't support a German bid! I would totally hate it!

No German deserve the Olympics because

1) They are one of the most successful Winter Olympic Nations

2) They have not held since 1936 and less successful Olympic nations have held more frequently since

3) You can actually see the Mountains from Munich - it is called the Winter Olympics because skiing is one of the major sports.

Now we are talking about a city not country. My friend traveled in LA two weeks. He said it was impossible to do that without car. Do you think Swedes are stupid? Of course we know USA and Canada are bigger than Sweden. But that's not why Swedes complain. They complain because Stockholm's infrastructur is SUPERIOR Los Angeles or vwhich any city in USA or Canada!

All you are doing is to ruin a thread about Munich. If you want to comment about Stockholm/Are do so on that article.

I have been to both Sweden, Canada and the USA. I find it quite remarkable to hear about your infrastructure remarks concerning Stockholm v Toronto or Montreal as these comments are incorrect.

My personal experience of the infrastructure in Stockholm compared to the Canadian cities was that each was as good as one another.

[baron-pierreIV]

Based on Pillan's rantings here, is it any wonder that the Swedish gov't thinks that a Stockholm-Are combo can actually be viable? I mean...she does show her true Swedish colors...

Edited June 8, 2013 by baron-pierreIV

[Quaker2001]

Lol, then Sweden should have got the WOG 1994 instead of Norway right? We are a bigger country than Norway.

No Germany isn't more capable to host OG than Sweden. If Norway with 4.5 millions can host it then Sweden can do it too.. Germany don't deserve anything because they are bigger. If so should IOC bring up a rule that say no countries with less than 20 millions is allowed to host it? Why shall the smaller keep lose money on the promotions if they have no chances against the superpowers, mega-fantastic, the best country because wea are so big GERMANY?

Ugh.. it's posts like this that big this forum a bad name. A couple of people make a comment about country size and now you're going on and on about it like the rest of us assume it's the only thing that matters. And you're trying to represent Sweden as some sort of oppressed minority that's not getting the respect it deserves. Meanwhile, you are coming off as whiny as could be since you seem to think everyone here is against Sweden. That's not the case. We're trying to assess Munich versus Stockholm/Are (or Ostersund/Are, even if that's not longer Sweden's choice) and which of those 2 the IOC would pick. Let's examine.

First off.. yes, Germany is probably more capable of hosting an Olympics than Sweden. That's not to say a country the size of Sweden could host an Olympics. Certainly they could as you pointed out with Norway. But (and this will be the last time I mention country size), Germany is a country of nearly 82 million people. Sweden's population is under 10 million. Yes, that makes a difference. But beyond that though, you still fail to accept what everyone else knows to be a fact.. the Stockholm/Are bid has a major technical flaw that the IOC isn't going to look to kindly on. Munich does not have that flaw. That's the biggest difference in their bids.

The IOC and their voters have a choice to make. Which of those 2 locations would they like to hold a Winter Olympics. Sweden certainly can say that they've never hosted an Olympics before and that they deserve to. But Germany will not have hosted an Olympics of any kind in 50 years (and that was West Germany.. this would be a first for a modern unified Germany) and not a Winter Olympics in 86 years. So that's a pretty long time. And Munich, having bid for 2018, can make their own compelling case to host an Olympics.

Pillan, continue to accuse us all of bashing Sweden if you want. But the fact remains that there will most likely be a more compelling option to choose from than Stockholm/Are. If you don't see it that way, that's your opinion. Clearly though, you are extremely biased in this regard, so it's hard for the rest of us to take your opinions and your preferences seriously.

[Pillan]

No German deserve the Olympics because

1) They are one of the most successful Winter Olympic Nations

2) They have not held since 1936 and less successful Olympic nations have held more frequently since

3) You can actually see the Mountains from Munich - it is called the Winter Olympics because skiing is one of the major sports.

All you are doing is to ruin a thread about Munich. If you want to comment about Stockholm/Are do so on that article.

I have been to both Sweden, Canada and the USA. I find it quite remarkable to hear about your infrastructure remarks concerning Stockholm v Toronto or Montreal as these comments are incorrect.

My personal experience of the infrastructure in Stockholm compared to the Canadian cities was that each was as good as one another.

I have family that have moved from Syria to USA because of the war. My cousin now lives in Houston, Texas. The first thing she said they must doing were to buy a CAR. Because she said they couldn't go anywhere. The infrastructur sucks. Everyone who havevisit USA or Canada say this not only Swedes.

I'm not surprise to hear that you are saying that USA, Canada's and Sweden's infrastructur are the same because you seems to have an agenda against Sweden. You will never give Sweden praise even if we deserves it sometimes. Either you haven't visit the countries as you said you have or you haven't traveled enough to see the difference.

Also I ruin a thread about Munich? How? The question is Will a Munich 2022 be a favorite? If we should answer that question then we need to look at the other possible candidates. Then it should be allowed to talk about other bids.

To you who are saying that Germany haven't host a OG in along time: MUNICH hosted SOG in 1972. Sweden on the other side haven't host a OG since 1912. Then that's not an argument in favour for German.

[Athensfan]

Talk about an axe to grind.

[intoronto]

I have family that have moved from Syria to USA because of the war. My cousin now lives in Houston, Texas. The first thing she said they must doing were to buy a CAR. Because she said they couldn't go anywhere. The infrastructur sucks. Everyone who havevisit USA or Canada say this not only Swedes.

I'm not surprise to hear that you are saying that USA, Canada's and Sweden's infrastructur are the same because you seems to have an agenda against Sweden. You will never give Sweden praise even if we deserves it sometimes. Either you haven't visit the countries as you said you have or you haven't traveled enough to see the difference.

Also I ruin a thread about Munich? How? The question is Will a Munich 2022 be a favorite? If we should answer that question then we need to look at the other possible candidates. Then it should be allowed to talk about other bids.

To you who are saying that Germany haven't host a OG in along time: MUNICH hosted SOG in 1972. Sweden on the other side haven't host a OG since 1912. Then that's not an argument in favour for German.

Not saying USA/Canada's infrastructure is great, because there is room for improvement, but the IOC has decided to come here a combined 10 times, and believe me its not because of the bad infrastructure in both countries