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Stockholm/Are 2022?

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No odder than Olympic banners in Hong Kong, the Olympic flame burning in Kingston, Ontario, Moscow being featured heavily in the Sochi Games or all of Korea cheering on the 2018 Games. When the Olympic torch ran across Canada back in 2010, there were Vancouver 2010 banners, mittens and branding in Newfoundland, Toronto and Calgary - way further than the 600 km away were talking about here. A country quickly galvanizes behind the Olympics once the torch touches down. And Sweden is a country of 10 million. If successful, it will be a big national event for them.

Yep, the bid has a problem. But at least the mountains are in their own country. Unlike the Helsinki 2006 or Krakow 2022 bids.

But is it just me, or does anyone else find it extremely funny that in a cycle that includes unproven Ukraine, barely known Almaty, a last second electoral ditch by Munich, a binational Polish/Slovak bid, another bid from both Beijing and Norway, that SWEDEN of all places appears to have stirred up the most controversy in this race?

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But is it just me, or does anyone else find it extremely funny that in a cycle that includes unproven Ukraine, barely known Almaty, a last second electoral ditch by Munich, a binational Polish/Slovak bid, another bid from both Beijing and Norway, that SWEDEN of all places appears to have stirred up the most controversy in this race?

Because of that 528 km, 7-hour overland ride, distance between the 2 clusters. No WOG host have ever used or offered anything THAT distant. It's almost like placing them 3 time zones apart. The WOGs, because they are smaller than its summer cousin, has always been traditionally cozy and compact. This bid spins a few of its marquee events way out in the hinterlands. In stark contrast, there are the other competing bids which are logistically more manageable.

And I think a cross-border arrangement (Krakow) is easier to deal with than a distance problem. Those mountain passes in the winter aren't exactly like the Gaza Strip or San Diego-Tijuana border crossings. Two Olympic Games have been split in the past -- but a 528 km split in a WOG has never happened.

I hope these Swedish organizers don't think that this 528 km land trek planned for 2022 is a breeze compared to the 15,600km (as the crow flies) distance between Stockholm and Melbourne in 1956, :wacko:

Researchers, what is the greatest WOG split-times on record???

Edited by baron-pierreIV

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The WOGs were also traditionally held in places like Lake Placid, which has a population almost equivalent to the number of athletes competing in Sochi, and other tiny towns. That just won't happen now.

The Winter Games are too big for them to support and sustain. Starting with Calgary in 1988, we've seen the trend of large central city supported by a more distant ski resort. With the limited number of potential Winter hosts (and that is a reality...only a very few places can actually host them) a bid like this one was inevitable. It will certainly be a litmus test for future Olympic Winter bids.

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I'm sure Gunilla Lindberg has sent out some feelers within the IOC, and knows exactly what's going on.

Wasn't she head of the 2018 evaluation? Maybe that inside knowledge will be the bid's advantage indeed.

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Wasn't she head of the 2018 evaluation? Maybe that inside knowledge will be the bid's advantage indeed.

So what? She's only one of a committee. I think the IOC members know how to do their job by Committee...so it's not like Ms. Lindberg is the secret weapon of the Stockholm bid. If anything, maybe the SOC is over-riding her just like the Madrid people and the Spanish NOC overrode JAS 1's advice even for 2012 that "...it was too soon for Spain to bid again." They didn't listen to him. They just went ahead and bid.

And just like the 2018 Annecy bid -- apparently, it was just to appease the Annecy group even though the French NOC wasn't entirely gung-ho in putting in a bid.

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But is it just me, or does anyone else find it extremely funny that in a cycle that includes unproven Ukraine, barely known Almaty, a last second electoral ditch by Munich, a binational Polish/Slovak bid, another bid from both Beijing and Norway, that SWEDEN of all places appears to have stirred up the most controversy in this race?

Lol, you'd be surprised there's a growing anti-swedish sentiment out there :ph34r: . Can you imagine Pillan with some actual fuel on the fire?

No seriously, if by whatever reason, you're a supporter of a swedish bid you need to look at the obstacles it faces:

1 - Needless to mention

2 - Reinfeldt and the minister of sports have been extremely lukewarm to say the least. They've basically already said no in more politeful ways, however, politics is dynamic, so it's not ruled out completely.

3 - Talk about low budget games! Currently, it's about 2/7 of the neighbouring country's budget and they are promoting themselves as "down to earth". The swedes would have to coin a different term to describe their money management, more like "down to rammed-earth", but point being, it's not realistic, and mr. Reinfeldt himself pointed this out: Make it realistic from the start; don't underfinance to gain false support..

Objectively speaking, I don't think it's strange that it's controversial given that the swedish bid has lots of supporters here despite Pillan's best efforts to prove otherwise, but it also has some major obstacles.

From my POV, it's just not likely to happen.

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Oh, c'mon on. Madrid & Stockholm are apples & oranges to say the least. Spain had/has a stumbling economy, they had a very weak narrative. They were very presumptuous, & they were going after another Summer Olympics (yet again after two consecutive failed bids) a mere 28 years after their last one. Sweden, a traditional winter sports power, has NEVER hosted a Winter Olympics, & their last Olympic Games was over a CENTURY ago!

Sweden's real test here, much like South Africa's, is to get onto that short-list. Once they do, it's virtually game over, IMHO. When you have the Lviv bid, for example, proposing an amateur budget in a setting that would require massive investment, there's no chance a bid a like that would succeed, much like Madrid's disingenuous budget figures. Oslo is proposing five & a half times more, in a country that's already virtually ready here. And Lviv's budget it's a blip on the radar of what Sochi is spending. I'd say the stars are alining quite nice for the Swedes.

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Sweden.... has NEVER hosted a Winter Olympics, & their last Olympic Games was over a CENTURY ago!

Sweden's real test here, much like South Africa's, is to get onto that short-list. Once they do, it's virtually game over, IMHO. When you have the Lviv bid, for example, proposing an amateur budget in a setting that would require massive investment, there's no chance a bid a like that would succeed, much like Madrid's disingenuous budget figures. Oslo is proposing five & a half times more, in a country that's already virtually ready here. And Lviv's budget it's a blip on the radar of what Sochi is spending. I'd say the stars are alining quite nice for the Swedes.

Well, maybe there's a cold, hard reason for it? And it's not for a lack of trying.

I notice you didn't make mention of the Krakow bid? ;) Poland (& Slovakia, too) have never hosted a WOG. (The "traditional winter power" (TWP) mojo doesn't seem to apply to this race, especially after the strongest TWP (Germany) turned its nose at this extravaganza. Chile and New Zealand have all those pristene slopes. How come they've never hosted a WOG, hmmmmmm?)

BTW, the Netherlands is a major winter power in its own way. How come they've never hosted a WOG?

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Well, maybe there's a cold, hard reason for it? And it's not for a lack of trying.

C'mon baron. We've been through this already. No need to rehash it.

I notice you didn't make mention of the Krakow bid? ;)

I've already acknowledge that Krakow COULD be a darkhorse. But it all depends on what they're proposing. If they too, however, like Lviv, propose an unrealistic budget, might as well kiss them goodbye, too.

Chile and New Zealand have all those pristene slopes. How come they've never hosted a WOG, hmmmmmm?)

BTW, the Netherlands is a major winter power in its own way. How come they've never hosted a WOG?

Oh please. Uhh, bcuz they never bid for one before. And in the Netherlands case, they are part of the "lowland" countries, so no mountains. At least Sweden has those.

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I've already acknowledge that Krakow COULD be a darkhorse. But it all depends on what they're proposing. If they too, however, like Lviv, propose an unrealistic budget, might as well kiss them goodbye, too.

Dude.. according to AP, Lviv plans to invest 10 billion dollars, http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/lviv-submits-bid-host-2022-winter-olympics-163125126--oly.html

While Sthlm/Åre plans to invest 2,5 billion SEK before the olympics, while they're "carrying out" budget is about 10 billion SEK.

That is not much more than 250 million euros for investments and they're building most outdoorish things from scratch.. including .. wait for it.. an artificial mountain.

Summed up, it's about 1,4 billion euros.

Sorry to keep going about this, but it just seems strange to denounce Lviv's budget when Sthlm is by far the city with the lowest budget, and in a higher cost country.

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Lol, you'd be surprised there's a growing anti-swedish sentiment out there :ph34r: .

lol

1 - Needless to mention

2 - Reinfeldt and the minister of sports have been extremely lukewarm to say the least. They've basically already said no in more politeful ways, however, politics is dynamic, so it's not ruled out completely.

3 - Talk about low budget games! Currently, it's about 2/7 of the neighbouring country's budget and they are promoting themselves as "down to earth". The swedes would have to coin a different term to describe their money management, more like "down to rammed-earth", but point being, it's not realistic, and mr. Reinfeldt himself pointed this out: Make it realistic from the start; don't underfinance to gain false support..

From my POV, it's just not likely to happen.

You're doing better .

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According to Gamesbids, the number is $1 Billion. So blame them.

http://www.gamesbids.com/eng/winter_olympic_bids/future_winter_bids/1216136808.html

Lol ok, that's fine then (Someone should probably tell GB that something went wrong)

But incorrect information from gamesbids doesn't change what we know about sthlm's budget. Do you really see it as realistic?

1 euro is 1,35 usd, so that is

investments about 350 usd million

"carrying out costs" about 1,5 billion usd

And summed up about 1,85 billion usd.

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lol

You're doing better .

Lol, if you'd visited this thread earlier, you'd seen it's not the first time FYI and I 've been doing this.

But thanks..

Pixie, are we friends now. Pixie, your place or my place?

fyi she's a hottie

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Lol ok, that's fine then (Someone should probably tell GB that something went wrong)

But incorrect information from gamesbids doesn't change what we know about sthlm's budget. Do you really see it as realistic?

Maybe it was a typo from gamesbids part & they forgot the zero. But even at $10 Billion, that's still quite low in a region that needs some massive investment. And that's not including Games operation & security.

Like I said earlier, even ready-to-go Oslo is proposing $5.5 Billion. And even Vancouver 2010 spent a "modest" $6 Billion in comparison, & they had many facilities in place already.

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Maybe it was a typo from gamesbids part & they forgot the zero. But even at $10 Billion, that's still quite low in a region that needs some massive investment. And that's not including Games operation & security.

Like I said earlier, even ready-to-go Oslo is proposing $5.5 Billion. And even Vancouver 2010 spent a "modest" $6 Billion in comparison, & they had many facilities in place already.

(my underlining)

Oh yeah, that might be true, I wouldn't know, but we all know how budgets tend to expand.

I was more curious about what you thought of Sthlm's budget though at 1,85 usd billion.

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What a strange and frankly trivial argument.

I understand you want it to be strange and trivial, but it's neither.

The point is not the banners. The point is the distance.

It would be ludicrous for LA to offer itself as a Winter Games host with alpine events in Lake Tahoe. Why would Tahoe ever be decked out in banners saying "Los Angeles"? And yet Stockholm is proposing an even greater distance. Of course the banners are a tiny detail, but the fact that the one small detail FEELS incredibly wrong is indicative of the scale of distance problem.

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OK, here's the problem with this Stockholm-Are 2022 bid discussion here. Many of us so desperately WANT the Swedes to host...desperate enough to turn a blind eye to the MOST GLARING liability of the bid so far. While the pragmatists can't help but point out the exact same shortcoming of the bid -- the incredible distance between the 2 sites...the FARTHEST of all the early 6. How can it NOT be ignored or dismissed as a minor glitch, totally confounds me.

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OK, here's the problem with this Stockholm-Are 2022 bid discussion here. Many of us so desperately WANT the Swedes to host...desperate enough to turn a blind eye to the MOST GLARING liability of the bid so far. While the pragmatists can't help but point out the exact same shortcoming of the bid -- the incredible distance between the 2 sites...the FARTHEST of all the early 6. How can it NOT be ignored or dismissed as a minor glitch, totally confounds me.

Exactly.

I really would love to find some way for Sweden to host, but this is not the way to do it. It is just too far. And it really is a shame because I have no doubt the Swedes would be superb hosts.

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Because of that 528 km, 7-hour overland ride, distance between the 2 clusters. No WOG host have ever used or offered anything THAT distant. It's almost like placing them 3 time zones apart.

SOGs have them all the time. What's the distance between Tallinn and Moscow? Beijing to Hong Kong? Rio to Salvador?

And it does without saying that Sweden has one time zone, so it's nothing like placing them 3 time zones apart.

I really would love to find some way for Sweden to host, but this is not the way to do it. It is just too far. And it really is a shame because I have no doubt the Swedes would be superb hosts.

Why are longer distance (sometimes much longer distances) not "too far" for SOGs?

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Well, the numbers for Alpine are similar to equestrian or sailing at the Summer Games...

Alpine Skiing for Vancouver 2010 @ Whistler Creekside

309 athletes in 10 events

10 days of competition

Equestrian in Hong Kong @ Beijing 2008

200 horses in 6 events

12 days of competition

Sailing @ London 2012 around the Isle of Portland

380 athletes in 10 events

13 days of competition

And Are is a regular stop on FIS World Cup circuits...something a few of the other bidders cannot put in their application forms.

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It would be ludicrous for LA to offer itself as a Winter Games host with alpine events in Lake Tahoe. Why would Tahoe ever be decked out in banners saying "Los Angeles"? .

Yes, it would be ludicrous, bcuz the United States has hosted the Winter Olympics a record four times already. Plus, the U.S. still has better alternatives that what you're citing. Sweden doesn't have that luxury & they've never hosted a Winter Olympics before, even though they a major winter power that's never done so. So let's compare apples to apples here, & not apples to oranges.

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