Stockholm/Are 2022?

[Kenadian]

It isn't a threat. It is just the reality. Are is the only resort in Sweden that has the required vertical for the men's downhill. And while it was very close to winning the 1994 Olympics, Ostersund is now simply too small to host the Winter Olympics. Stockholm has the infrastructure, size and facilities to host all of the other Olympic Winter events, but needs Are for the Alpine events. So if the IOC tells Sweden that the distance is too great for them to allow the bid to proceed to the Candidate Phase, then the best Sweden can ever hope for is a Youth Winter Olympics based in Ostersund, but their quest for the real show will be over.

[Pixie_Victoria]

then the best Sweden can ever hope for is a Youth Winter Olympics

Youth Winter Olympics are an awesome event to host.

---) They should go for that one.

[StefanMUC]

And because of their awesomeness, the IOC is flooded by bids each time, right?

[Kenadian]

And again, timing is a factor.

Ostersund came very close (losing by 6 votes) to hosting the 1994 Olympics. Losing to their Norwegian neighbours in Lillehammer also threw a huge geopolitical wrench into their subsequent bids for 1998 and 2002. The IOC wasn't going to hop the Olympics over the border when they had offers from Japan and the USA. And then around the same time, we had a series of increasingly bigger cities host (Nagano, Salt Lake, Torino, Vancouver) followed by a couple of new big spenders looking to do some national branding (Russia and Korea). So essentially, a town of 45,000 far from a major populations center would never again host the Olympic Winter Games.

So, this 2022 bid from Stockholm will address the size issue, but it will have a distance issue. The competition isn't unbearably strong here and other than Oslo, all of them have major logistics, experience and legacy questions to address. So this is also probably the best chance for this kind of bid to pass through to the next phase. I don't believe anyone would dare question Sweden's ability to host a spectacular and successful games, nor would they question Sweden's winter sport legacy and culture.

It's just those 500 miserable kilometers to get to those 800 miserable meters.

[PaStKaz]

It's hard to say that some NOC would decide not to bid anymore. Few months ago many of us thought that Sweden won't bid and today we've got over 400 replies in topic about Stokholm bid. Maybe after next fail Sweds will wait another 12 or 16 years an then try again becouse priorities of IOC had changed, last bid was in bad time or something like this. And show goes on.

[p85]

Maybe after next fail Sweds will wait another 12 or 16 years an then try again becouse priorities of IOC had changed, last bid was in bad time or something like this. And show goes on.

Well, Sweden came back after a 20-year pause, after three consecutive Ostersund fails.

I don't think that they would withdraw completelly after eventual Stockholm 2022 fiasco. The IOC might change their policy, Ostersund might be OK for 2030s bids.

[Pixie_Victoria]

Well, Sweden came back after a 20-year pause, after three consecutive Ostersund fails.

Good point.

[FYI]

The IOC's only job (in that case) is to choose the best host. If some cities aren't able to understand that, they shouldn't worry about it. So, no they shouldn't care. Rather, cities should be aware that they can't realistically present bad bids and then weep and stop bidding because they lost.

Exactly. And again, bcuz of the not-so-stellar options that the IOC has on the 2022 table is the reason why Stockholm becomes a contender in this. Had Munich gone forward, not to mention St Moritz, I'd agree that Stockholm's chances wouldn't have been that great. But considering the alternatives with their own major weaknesses, Stockholm then becomes viable.

This isn't about cities not "understanding" not getting the Games & then not bidding afterwards. The only one here that has made it a case about that is you.

Well, Sweden came back after a 20-year pause, after three consecutive Ostersund fails.

Precisely the point. If they lose again, it gonna be at least another 20 years before they come back again. The Swedes aren't like the Spainards where they're glutton for punishment.

[Athensfan]

Note - you build a slalom track for the combined up by the downhill instead of using the Olympic slalom hill.

What makes you think they haven't considered these fundamental issues? These guys plan world cup ski events all the time. I suspect they've thought vastly more about the logistics than we have.

The Alpine skiiers don't stay in the main villiage with the curlers. Everybody coming together doesn't happen today. It won't happen at any of the proposed 2022 sites. Do you honestly think it does? That's a serious question... do you honestly think this happens?

Zeke, the point is that it makes no sense to build a separate slalom run in Stockholm if you're going to need one in Are anyway. That does not seem well thought out to me.

Of course there are Swedes who are superb at organizing Winter Sports events, but I question whether those individuals were consulted on this point.

Maybe Stockholm will tweak their plans a little and come up with a winner, but I doubt it.

I don't think it's essential to have all athletes in the same village. It's not as though a group that large can all talk to each other anyway. I do think it's important for spectators and officials to be able to travel between venues in a reasonable amount of time. For me, that means roughly two hours or less. One might stretch that window a bit, but seven hours is way too much. It's the equivalent of two separate Olympics.

[Kenadian]

All of these bids are less than five days old at this stage, so there will be a lot of news and information coming out in the weeks and months ahead. The application files are due March 14, 2014, candidates will be announced in July, and then candidate files are due in January 2015. And right off the bat, I think we have the most interesting winter race in a long time.

[p85]

And right off the bat, I think we have the most interesting winter race in a long time. [2]

[yoshi]

Yes, in 20 years, we might have an IOC that's seen the problems with Sochi, Rio, & FIFA's problems in Doha, & might think that back-to-basics is just what sport needs.

[markun]

I hope we have that now.

[Kenadian]

I think the point they are hinting at is going back to small towns like Lake Placid, Albertville, or Lillehammer. Ostersund would fit that style, but the Winter Olympics haven't been trending that way since the 1960s and they've grown significantly since the 1990s. In the last 50 years, only three Winter Games have been held in towns with under 100,000 residents. Pyeongchang is sort of reverting back to that a bit, although they are getting heavy support from the more populous Gangneung and the resort isn't a great distance to the much more massive Seoul.

[Gold Coast Lions]

I think the point they are hinting at is going back to small towns like Lake Placid, Albertville, or Lillehammer. Ostersund would fit that style, but the Winter Olympics haven't been trending that way since the 1960s and they've grown significantly since the 1990s. In the last 50 years, only three Winter Games have been held in towns with under 100,000 residents. Pyeongchang is sort of reverting back to that a bit, although they are getting heavy support from the more populous Gangneung and the resort isn't a great distance to the much more massive Seoul.

Also add to that Seoul has 21 million people and it will be only 80 mins way by train and Gangneung has about 250,000 people which is only 25 mins way there are over 25 million people with in 90 mins away from where the Olympics Games is in South Korea, There will be many people that will go to PyeongChang 2018 that will stay in Seoul too, The Winter Olympics Games has outgrown Sweden now and Norway is hosting the 2016 Youth Games and they already hosted 2 winter games before so forget about Norway and they don't have government support and it's very unlikely that they will have it,

Ukraine is not ready and the IOC don't allow joint countries bids and too soon for a return to Beijing, The 2022 Winter Games is going to the new winter sporting hub Almaty Kazakhstan co hosted the 2011 Asian Winter Games with Astana and in 2017 they are hosting the World Expo in Astana and Almaty is hosting the Winter University Games, Kazakhstan economy is one of the fastest growing in the world and Central Asia never hosted the Olympics Games before and is the last new Horizon in Asia for Winter sports and a winter sporting hub West Asia and South East Asia can't host a winter games.

[baron-pierreIV]

the IOC don't allow joint countries bids

Wrong. Read the other threads. It is allowed for Winter bids. They realize there aren't too many 800-m drop mountains, already developed, to go around.

[zekekelso]

If the WOG's have outgrown Norway and Sweden, then there is something seriously wrong with the WOG's.

[StefanMUC]

Ah, the punctuation master in support of Almaty again...

If the WOG have really outgrown Sweden or Norway, there's not many places left in the already limited number of suitable hosts. Wishful thinking.

[FYI]

The Winter Olympics haven't outgrown Norway or Sweden. Either one of them could host 2022 just fine.

And most likely, one of them will.

[baron-pierreIV]

If the WOG have really outgrown Sweden or Norway, there's not many places left in the already limited number of suitable hosts. Wishful thinking.

There's quite a few... between the US and Canada, there are at least 6 regions/metro areas between the 2 of them. I'd say another half a dozen around the Alps; you have the Asian Triad: China, Japan, Korea. There's Chile and NZ. There's at least a dozen OTHER places to host the WOGs outside of Sweden and Norway. You just can't shoehorn a large, hopefully compact & efficiently run 21st century WOGs into tiny villages any more just becuz they used to be "traditional" winter powers. ANymore than you can shoehorn a SOG into also a sentimental, nostalgic favorite like Istanbul which would have ALL the ambience of an exotic city...but INCREDIBLY dense layout for a 24-sport 17-day extravaganza. Too bad if they don't have suitable layouts.

But again, it's WHICH "ideal" locales are willing to host the IOC's party on its terms. As the Swiss and Bavarian voters have said, they aren't willing to pick up the IOC's tab.

Edited November 20, 2013 by baron-pierreIV

[StefanMUC]

There's quite a few... between the US and Canada, there are at least 6 regions/metro areas between the 2 of them. I'd say another half a dozen around the Alps; you have the Asian Triad: China, Japan, Korea. There's Chile and NZ. There's at least a dozen OTHER places to host the WOGs outside of Sweden and Norway. You just can't shoehorn a large, hopefully compact & efficiently run 21st century WOGs into tiny villages any more just becuz they used to be "traditional" winter powers. Too bad if they don't have suitable layouts. But again, it's WHICH ideal locales are willing to host the IOC's party on its terms. As the Swiss and Bavarian voters have said, they don't buy the IOC's terms just becuz they are the IOC.

I agree that the times of villages/towns like Chamonix, Lake Placid or even St Moritz are over, but Gold Coast Lion made it sound like WOG follow the SOG in terms of having to be in/near megacities nowadays. Not to mention that Almaty isn't one...but would size-wise certainly fit in a line with SLC, Torino or Vancouver (metro areas). Still won't rule out Oslo on the basis of being too small. His logic was flawed.

[zekekelso]

ANymore than you can shoehorn a WOG into also a sentimental, nostalgic favorite like Istanbul which would have ALL the ambience of an exotic city

In the spirit of Rodney King, can't we all just agree that Istanbul would make a poor choice for WOG host?

[StefanMUC]

In the spirit of Rodney King, can't we all just agree that Istanbul would make a poor choice for WOG host?

It's not much more distant from suitable Bulgarian mountains than Stockholm is from Åre ;-)

[baron-pierreIV]

/\/\ Such a petty, nitpicky, pick-a-ninny poster. (That remark refers to the poster before you, Stefan...)

Edited November 20, 2013 by baron-pierreIV

[FYI]

His logic was flawed.

It always is.