Lord David Posted June 6, 2013 Report Share Posted June 6, 2013 When did I ever bash Sweden? Sweden has done nothing bad towards me; why should I hate her? I am ridiculing the 'Anchorage / Bozeman' dreams of others here who state that a 10-hour flight to Anchorage is just the blink of an eye. And how is that different to the likes of Östersund/Are? It's like the "Bozeman" or "Anchorage" of Sweden, with regards to distance and population. If Americans are willing to take a 17 hour flight from the Eastern US coast to say Moscow to Sochi, then surely a measly 10 hour or so flight to Anchorage is possible or even the equivalent to Östersund. When did I ever bash Sweden? Sweden has done nothing bad towards me; why should I hate her? I am ridiculing the 'Anchorage / Bozeman' dreams of others here who state that a 10-hour flight to Anchorage is just the blink of an eye. And how is that different to the likes of Östersund/Are? It's like the "Bozeman" or "Anchorage" of Sweden, with regards to distance and population. If Americans are willing to take a 17 hour flight from the Eastern US coast to say Moscow to Sochi, then surely a measly 10 hour or so flight to Anchorage is possible or even the equivalent to Östersund. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quaker2001 Posted June 6, 2013 Report Share Posted June 6, 2013 And how is that different to the likes of Östersund/Are? It's like the "Bozeman" or "Anchorage" of Sweden, with regards to distance and population. If Americans are willing to take a 17 hour flight from the Eastern US coast to say Moscow to Sochi, then surely a measly 10 hour or so flight to Anchorage is possible or even the equivalent to Östersund. Here we go with the comparisons again. What is being said about Sweden is similar to the conundrum with the United States cities. Does Sweden offer up its largest and most well-known city but with the great distances to the mountain venues? Or do they offer up a smaller city that is closer to the mountain venues. Similar to does the US offer up Anchorage, hundreds of miles away from the mainland United States. Or do they offer up a locale much closer to large population bases. It comes down to choice. You're asking the IOC to vote on which plan they like from however many countries bid and that's after those countries decide what city (or cities) they want to bid with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gromit Posted June 6, 2013 Report Share Posted June 6, 2013 There seems to still be a failure to acknowledge repeated comments made by various officials at the IOC about distance between venues. And lets not forget flying in winter brings a huge amount of environmental issues which technology could not overcome ... And whilst Stockholm has several arenas and stadia which might meet Olympic standards, I believe there would still need to be a speed skating arena, a new ski jumping facility unless the bid is going to be even bigger with the use of the resources at Farum, and a new bobsleigh run. Significant building work will be required yet the Swedish government have already said on record that they will not provide financial guarantees. The problem Sweden has is that their northern interior population is all congregated around Ostersund if not on the coast. But as a university town and with both Sochi and Pyeongchang using some temporary venues which will be moved after the games, if the Swedish government were prepared to provide the money, Ostersund could easily work: For example Speed Skating Arena (permanent) - the Nationellt Vintersportcentrum is based in Ostersund and could easily use a 'Richmond Oval' solution Curling Arena (permanent) - the local basketball team 'Jamtland Basket' could utilise this location 2nd Ice Hockey arena (permanent) - OIK could become the new tenant with an arena fit for the top division which would help any advance 1st Ice Hockey arena (temporary) Ice Skating arena (temporary) There is a world class biathlon arena, and where better to build a Swedish bobsleigh run, and new ski jumping facilities, even replacing those that were originally in the city - doubling as a site for the opening/closing ceremonies. The issue is that like Stockholm to build a number of these venues will require government financial backing and if they won't give it to develop an area like Ostersund, it is unlikely to be forthcoming for Stockholm And on side note, a number of Nordic Winter games had to be moved to Ostersund because of a lack of snow in Stockholm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger87 Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 The fiancial aspect will be much better than example for Sochi 2014. Sweden already now have said that a Olympic town will be more than welcome. These will be new homes which Stockholm needs. Also if big cities as Munich, Oslo and Barcelona will contend then why should they pick the much smaller Östersund to host WOG 2022? At least this is the reason you use against Östersund. "It's too small, what will they do with the hotels, arenas ect after the olympics". Sorry, but after reading again the gouvernment plans, I still have doubts for the proper concept for a WOG in Stockholm and the financial aspect. Maybe it sounds excellent an Olympic village, but again the logistic plan and transports will be their weak points. 8,5 hours by distance is still too out by IOC standards. Actually, Östersund could be use as a new tourist destination and an university city. With a proper plan, it could be more succesful than a Stockholm plan. I hope Sweden will make a chance of plan. There seems to still be a failure to acknowledge repeated comments made by various officials at the IOC about distance between venues. And lets not forget flying in winter brings a huge amount of environmental issues which technology could not overcome ... And whilst Stockholm has several arenas and stadia which might meet Olympic standards, I believe there would still need to be a speed skating arena, a new ski jumping facility unless the bid is going to be even bigger with the use of the resources at Farum, and a new bobsleigh run. Significant building work will be required yet the Swedish government have already said on record that they will not provide financial guarantees. The problem Sweden has is that their northern interior population is all congregated around Ostersund if not on the coast. But as a university town and with both Sochi and Pyeongchang using some temporary venues which will be moved after the games, if the Swedish government were prepared to provide the money, Ostersund could easily work: For example Speed Skating Arena (permanent) - the Nationellt Vintersportcentrum is based in Ostersund and could easily use a 'Richmond Oval' solution Curling Arena (permanent) - the local basketball team 'Jamtland Basket' could utilise this location 2nd Ice Hockey arena (permanent) - OIK could become the new tenant with an arena fit for the top division which would help any advance 1st Ice Hockey arena (temporary) Ice Skating arena (temporary) There is a world class biathlon arena, and where better to build a Swedish bobsleigh run, and new ski jumping facilities, even replacing those that were originally in the city - doubling as a site for the opening/closing ceremonies. The issue is that like Stockholm to build a number of these venues will require government financial backing and if they won't give it to develop an area like Ostersund, it is unlikely to be forthcoming for Stockholm And on side note, a number of Nordic Winter games had to be moved to Ostersund because of a lack of snow in Stockholm 100% agree, and I really think with the competition it will be the best plan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pillan Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 To be clear: there will not be a Östersund bid to 2022. The swedish gouverment already said no to those plans. It's Stockholm or no bid at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 I guess they don't really want to win 2022. I mean...do they even listen to advice from the int'l "experts and consultants"? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ofan Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 I guess they don't really want to win 2022. I mean...do they even listen to advice from the int'l "experts and consultants"? I know, seriously. Who's the idiot in charge of this plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 It almost sounds like a "death wish" -- and the saner heads have just yielded control to the inmates. "Yeah, knock yourselves out.." -- or however that is said in Swedish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pillan Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 I guess they don't really want to win 2022. I mean...do they even listen to advice from the int'l "experts and consultants"? If you mean SOC then it's not their fault. Their first plan was ÖSTERSUND! But the gouverment rejected it. Now SOC try Stockholm instead! BTW, people critique whatever Sweden does. I guess we shouldn't host WOG at all. Just give it to Norway again! TOTALLY DAMN BORING!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pillan Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 BTW, I understand why the swedish gouverment say no to Östersund. I mean how many times have Östersund bid for WOG now? There's much money for NOTHING!! IOC are IDIOTS!!! They are the ones to blame! I wish a Sweden olympics but sometimes I think Sweden just should leave it, IOC don't want a OG in Sweden. Maybe we must accept that! And then let Norway, USA ect riun themselves! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 Pillan, because what Sweden is offering is totally untenable from what the IOC wants. They want one (or rather close clusters) so that the athletes, visitors and the IOC'ers can safely and conveniently move around in a winter setting. And if there are other candidates offering what the IOC wants, then of course, the IOC "idiots" will go for what they want. Maybe because Stockholm got lucky with ONE event in 1956, they think they can strike gold again? They couldn't even get it up for 2004! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pillan Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 I'm sick of the people who are saying how fantastic Östersund/Åre bid would be! This forum do nathing than bash Östersund either. If Östersund/Åre would bid to 2022 then you should bash it too. Pillan, because what Sweden is offering is totally untenable from what the IOC wants. They want one (or rather close clusters) so that the athletes, visitors and the IOC'ers can safely and conveniently move around in a winter setting. And if there are other candidates offering what the IOC wants, then of course, the IOC "idiots" will go for what they want. Maybe because Stockholm got lucky with ONE event in 1956, they think they can strike gold again? They couldn't even get it up for 2004! And the idiots in IOC rejected Östersund/Åre multiple time because....??? But yeah congrats IOC can ruin some countries. Who hell want to see same countries host WOG every 20 years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 Sweden should learn from the Qataris. Buy a WOGs!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pillan Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 Sweden should learn from the Qataris. Buy a WOGs!! Well that's probably the only way to get OG nowdays. IOC is corrupt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryker Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 When Jaca bid in 2014, they tried to have Zaragoza in their proposal as the place to host the opening and closing ceremonies despite it being against the rules- hoping the IOC might change, and their bid was rejected I still think Ostersund could bid if the government provided financial help as some of the venues could be moved after the games Ostersund is too small to host. Twenty years ago, it could've done so. The distance between Stockholm and Are is a problem although perhaps this could be eased with the construction of a high speed rail link. The bigger issue though with any Swedish bid is government support. Sweden has a lot of winter sports history but it lacks the major metropolitan area close enough to a ski resort for the apline events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pillan Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 Ostersund is too small to host. Twenty years ago, it could've done so. The distance between Stockholm and Are is a problem although perhaps this could be eased with the construction of a high speed rail link. The bigger issue though with any Swedish bid is government support. Sweden has a lot of winter sports history but it lacks the major metropolitan area close enough to a ski resort for the apline events. Yup we should ask USA to host every Olympics and ruin themselves, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 Yup we should ask USA to host every Olympics and ruin themselves, right? Bitter perhaps? Hey, not even MORE compact Switzerland has hosted since 1948, so maybe you should stop bitchin'. It's not the IOC's fault that Sweden does not have the right slopes beside a large metro area. That's NOBODY's fault but the Swedes. Maybe you Vikings should settle closer to the mountains than to the sea so you can get a WOGs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ofan Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 Pillar why are you so angry. Stockholm is 600 f/cking kilometres from Are. That's is waaaaaaaaayyy too far. I'm sure most people here would support an Ostersund bid. You can't assume that we wouldn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 (edited) Pillar why are you so angry. Stockholm is 600 f/cking kilometres from Are. That's is waaaaaaaaayyy too far. I'm sure most people here would support an Ostersund bid. You can't assume that we wouldn't. But here's the thing. Even the last 2x an Ostersund bid made the Shortlist, it didn't fare very well: 1991 for 1998 Games - Ostersund lasted until the 4th round at 23, to Salt Lake's 29 and Nagano's 36. It was out after that. In 1995, Ostersund only got 14 votes (same as Sion) while Salt Lake blew everyone away w/ 54 votes in only ONE round. So based on that, Ostersund does not have a very rabid following. And I don't know if the Swedes know how to court the non-Winter countries votes. That is where they should curry favor if they are serious about this. Maybe recruit Koffi Annan, after all, his wife is a Wallenberg. Edited June 7, 2013 by baron-pierreIV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pillan Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 Pillar why are you so angry. Stockholm is 600 f/cking kilometres from Are. That's is waaaaaaaaayyy too far. I'm sure most people here would support an Ostersund bid. You can't assume that we wouldn't. Loool, if you think so then you haven't read the threads about Östersund/Åre. Most people in here are Sweden's haters and/or are very threatened by a swedish bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 As much as I like the idea of a Stockholm 2022 bid, the more than 250 miles to Are does pose a great, logistical challenge. And Ostersund is probably not going to be very feasible anymore for a 21st century Winter Olympics. I think their best (& last) shot was for the '94 Games. What kind of rail service links do Stockholm & Are have right now, & how long does it take? I think flying is not an option, as it just creates more logistical nightmares, especially during the winter during an Olympics. Driving doesn't sound like such a great option, either. It's a shame, cuz Stockholm would create a great backdrop for the Ice events & a Winter Olympics in general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gromit Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 The high speed SJ train takes 4hrs 53mins but it would be prohibitively expensive to upgrade for such a narrow passenger route. Regular trains are in excess of 8hrs. As for Ostersund, Jamtland has a population of 125,000 people whilst Vasternorrland has a population of 250,000 people But as has been previously stated as a fact, the Swedish government will not underwrite the costs of the bid which is against the IOC charter which insists every bid must have such guarantees 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gangwon Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 One way an Ostersund bid could win: pulling a Steven Bradbury. The Swiss have already pulled out, and if Munich votes a negative in their referendum which happens to be a few days before the deadline, who is left? Munich may be the favourite, and that could discourage others from bidding. But if Munich pulls out at the last minute, whoever is still in the race is now dealing with a weak pool of candidates. As Ostersund bid, no matter how small they are, could stack up well if they only have to deal with the likes of Ukraine or Poland, or even another Norwegian bid. Make it happen! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 SCOOP!! The gov't of Sweden will unveil a "transporter beam" machine that will OBLITERATE all the distance problems between Stockholm and Are, for theri Winter 2022 bid. Within a few seconds, athletes, visitors, IOC members will be reappear at the other end to attend the other events. Of course, this is still top secret and would NOT have been unveiled until the formal submission of bids. But you heard it first from me; here on GB!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pillan Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 ...and here comes the Östersund bashing!!! Why I'm not surprised since this is a Sweden hating and threatened forum? From now on all WOG should be hosted in USA, Norway, Canada and Germany or something like that, right? Wouldn't that be very boring to see the same countries host the WOG again and again? Well on the other side Sweden will not be ruined as those countries will be! Congrats! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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